Webs (60%) are better than TPs (37.5%) and TCs (30%), but only work within 9km-14km range.

Keep in mind that the above numbers only hold for webs if the source of all of the angular velocity is the target. While I agree in this case (assuming the frigs are at <10km) a web is probably better, you usually cannot just say that a web is effectively a 60% tracking speed boost unless you are perfectly stationary.

Nonsense. A TP also does not give a 37.5% advantage when used against a Titan. Nor is a TCs with 30% much help when used against a stationary target or a 10x faster ship.

The percentages in brackets are simply those of the individual modules and their effect. Nobody says it has to be the equivalent of one another. These numbers however do represent the gain one can get from each and a 60% gain is more than a 30%. What is there to argue?!

TCs can actually help you against a stationary target, if you're orbiting it. Webs, however, won't.

You always deal full damage against stationary targets (within optimal range). You probably did not know that.

No, you don't.

Stationary targets do not have a transversal speed in EVE.

If you are orbiting them they do.

Read it again.

Transversal speed is the absolute speed (in meters/second) at which you and your target are moving in a plane perpendicular to the line joining your ship center to the center of the target.

No, they do not in EVE. The emphasis is on "in EVE". Turn on the column on your overview for transversal speed and angular velocity. You will see that objects like stations and other stationary objects do not have a speed and their transversal speed is assumed to be 0, in which case there are no misses due to tracking.

I couldn't care less what the overview says.

I know how the to-hit formula works.

Both the attacker and the targets velocity are part of the calculation, as I have stated multiple times.

If you are orbiting a stationary target, your velocity contributes to the transversal velocity.

This is a fact.

I can imagine how frustrating this must be to you right now, trying to be all self-righteous and that, but I cannot change it.

Do I win now?

No. The argument was about the details and I have shown you that I am aware of them. The two of you have repeatedly been trying to prove me wrong, but only to show how little you actually know. Now, I do not really care how much or how little you know when you are trying to have an argument with me. Just understand that it has details everywhere and that the argument was pointless from the beginning.

If you go back to the start of the argument and read again what I wrote will you see for yourself. There is nothing to win here other then perhaps the insight I have given you on stationary targets.

You can jettison as many cans as you like. You would be right if it was real physics, but this is EVE. These objects posses no speed. Their speed is not 0 - they do not have a speed attribute to begin with! Thus does the formula default to a 0 transversal speed for such objects regardless of your ship's speed.

Are we done here?

No. The argument was about the details and I have shown you that I am aware of them. The two of you have repeatedly been trying to prove me wrong, but only to show how little you actually know. Now, I do not really care how much or how little you know when you are trying to have an argument with me. Just understand that it has details everywhere and that the argument was pointless from the beginning.

If you go back to the start of the argument and read again what I wrote will you see for yourself. There is nothing to win here other then perhaps the insight I have given you on stationary targets.

You can jettison as many cans as you like. You would be right if it was real physics, but this is EVE. These objects posses no speed. Their speed is not 0 - they do not have a speed attribute to begin with! Thus does the formula default to a 0 transversal speed for such objects regardless of your ship's speed.

Are we done here?

Take a fast ship with big guns (an attack BC, for example) and an MWD. Stick a buddy or an alt into a frigate. Have the buddy stay stationary while you orbit him at 10km or whatever. Oh hey, look at that, you'll miss.

There's a really, really simple way to prove yourself wrong.

Take a fast ship with big guns (an attack BC, for example) and an MWD. Stick a buddy or an alt into a frigate. Have the buddy stay stationary while you orbit him at 10km or whatever. Oh hey, look at that, you'll miss.

Nonsense. A TP also does not give a 37.5% advantage when used against a Titan. Nor is a TC with 30% much help when used against a stationary target or a 10x faster ship.

No, they do not. You always deal full damage against stationary targets (within optimal range).

Your claim was:


This claim has been proven false. Now you're claiming that you knew something else all along but didn't share it.

Ships are not stationary. They can only stand still, which is not the same. Stationary targets are things like stations, gates, cans, etc.. Everything without a propulsion.

There is no special case. Some objects simply have large signatures.

Guns have signature resolution, which is why you can make a medium gun have the same tracking figures as a small gun, yet the small gun still lands more hits on small fast moving targets.

I'm sure you can find an object in space with a small enough sig to be able to miss it from an orbit. Try a hyperion with 425mm railguns.

Ships are not stationary. They can only stand still, which is not the same. Stationary targets are things like stations, gates, cans, etc.. Everything without a propulsion.

Fairly certain that in the English language, "stationary" means "not moving."

Everyone else in the thread figured that out.

The word itself has got many meanings and not just "not moving". It entirely depends on the context it is being used in. In the context of EVE is there a difference between "stationary targets" and "stationary ships". You could have asked. Only you then want to argue, still. Why is that?

Webs (60%) are better than TPs (37.5%) and TCs (30%), but only work within 9km-14km range.

TPs work a bit better than TCs, but require a lock (just like webs), have a long cycle time and are limited by an optimal range and falloff.

TCs are the weakest, but are the easiest to use and can be switched to gain more range.

No, they do not. You always deal full damage against stationary targets (within optimal range). You probably did not know that.

The point also was that each module works differently and the pilot needs to know this before he/she can make use of the gain.

Hate to break it to you but all structures(Ihubs, SBUs, TCUs, POSes, Stations) are stationary structures. While yes you could say in real physics they are orbiting something etc i got that. You take your Turret based Battleship. Park it 5km away from large easy to shoot structure and shoot it while neither of you are moving and you will not hit for full damage. There is still a % chance to hit. You will even miss said insanely large structure with perfect skills.

Comparing web strength to a TC's tracking bonus is idiotic; you're not comparing the same attribute.

A web reduces the target's velocity by 60%, which is equivalent to increasing your tracking (assuming your own ship is stationary) by 1/(1-0.6) = 250%, not by a mere 60%. A web obviously won't help against transversal generated by your own ship's movement--but then you can set that to zero any time you like.

This is like third grade math, here.

There are some times when its best to admit you were wrong and stop posting.
There are some times when its best to admit nothing and keep derping until everyone else is too tired to talk to you anymore.

Both times are good times.

At least the latter provided me this mornings entertainment,
Far better than watching pepa pig with the kids.

There are some times when its best to admit you were wrong and stop posting.
There are some times when its best to admit nothing and keep derping until everyone else is too tired to talk to you anymore.

Both times are good times.

Webs (60%) are better than TPs (37.5%) and TCs (30%), but only work within 9km-14km range.

Tracking computer gives you +30% tracking, target painter is equivalent of +37.5% tracking, web is equivalent of up to +150% tracking if it slows down target ship to have 40% of its initial angular speed.