Please consider the idea. The CSM as it stands today is an irrelevant dinosaur with little connection to the majority of players.

the player base is full of loud idiots and it is the job of the csm to filter those idiots out, not enable them

There just isn't any filter big enough for you though.

you clearly haven't been paying attention

I'm sorry but isn't it Trebor doing the crowdsourcing ?? as far as I know CCP has nothing to do with that ?

the player base is full of loud idiots and it is the job of the csm to filter those idiots out, not enable them

So I thought, why not just have an ongoing crowdsourcing poll?

Actually, I have, and clearly you are trolling me. According to CCP's own figures, voter participation in the last CSM election was around 14%, up from 12% in the previous election. You can check that information on CCP's sites, TenTonHammer, and Massively, among others. Those figures mean that 86% percent of players are currently not connected to the CSM. I think my point stands.

As I relaxed in the aftermath of a time-dilated fight where supercaps didn't rule the day and lag didn't determine the outcome, I browsed a rack of podkills with implants, spun my recently rebalanced hybrid-gunned ship, and typed off a poorly-thought-out ragepost about how the CSM was irrelevant, because I'm literally a big babby who has no idea what he's talking about.

I then went off to enjoy a bunch of new spaceship-related content that CCP produced after they finally acknowledged that focusing on FiS instead of WiS was the right thing to do!

Does calls for removing the CSM completely make Mittens happy?

I think this will just have to be my stock reply for the now-daily idiotic threads from miners who mistakenly blame the CSM for their dead Mackinaws:

the crowdsourcing poll from July shows that there were far more pressing issues on the minds of the players than these three niche issues which are primarily the worries of 0.0 PVPers

The CSM has clearly demonstrated itself as an effective force.

Say what you will about his politics or the way he chooses to play the game, but you cannot deny that The Mittani has been the man behind the CSM's effectiveness. He is, almost certainly, the reason why we're getting an awesome expansion this winter instead of more frivolous work towards some badly implemented and boring establishment, with extra monocles on the side.

lol...the "crowdsourcing" poll got input from a tiny, tiny percentage of the playerbase and it was gamed by Eve University so that docking games was the number one issue. Do you really believe that docking games is the biggest problem in Eve Online?

Why did you sign your post? Your name is right there, to the left of it.

-JM

If you don't mind, I'd like your input on the actual point of this thread....

As for EVE-U "gaming the system" - which is just mob democracy in action, no different from how CSM members are elected - you will notice in the link I posted above (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/July_2011_Prioritization_Crowdsourcing) there is an entire section where the EVE-U results are taken out so people like you and me in debates like this can see what EVE players thought without the interference from the EVE-U voting bloc. On that list, the Mitanni's three concerns above come in no greater than rank 14. Apparently my point about the CSM being disconnected from players still stands.

The. Results. Were. Meaningless.

So few people voted that you can't point to the list and say "Durr Mittens only made it to number 14 on da list" and be taken seriously.

With only 10% as much turnout of the CSM elections, the results were pretty much meaningless.

Then why are people complaining so much about the CSM?

Then why are people complaining so much about the CSM?

[

The CSM is powerless! Wait, the CSM has too much power! Wait, someone on the CSM blew up my mining barge - quick, to Jita Park!

Anyway, crowdsourcing is dumb. It's a buzzword attached to a simple poll, and CCP has nicely illustrated the danger of believing in buzzwords. It's nice that Trebor puts so much stock in crowdsourcing; if you like crowdsourcing and want to hear about it a lot, vote for Trebor for CSM7; he's a great rep and a hiseccer. And he loves his crowdsourcing.

Crowdsourcing! Like 'Excellence', perhaps if you say it enough times magic fairies will happen.

From the sounds of it, a crowdsourcing initiative would weaken you

How so? A poll of players concerns could be a valuable tool but the way it was done made it into a joke.

From the sounds of it, a crowdsourcing initiative would weaken you and your desire to make the players of Eve play the game the way you want it to be played.

I can see why you don't like it.

[

Lengthy, obtuse polls that appeal to the spreadsheet demographic don't have anything to do with my ability to convince folks over a beer or two about my point of view.

But don't let that stop you constructing a conspiracy theory.

Have you paid any attention to what was happening during that time? To all the things that actually were happening, which were kind of important? Those things on which the CSM justifiably focused their attention?

It's by that standard that I deem the CSM effective. Sure, it'd be nice if some of the minor but irksome issues of Eve were resolved.

The CSM is powerless! Wait, the CSM has too much power! Wait, someone on the CSM blew up my mining barge - quick, to Jita Park!

Anyway, crowdsourcing is dumb. It's a buzzword attached to a simple poll, and CCP has nicely illustrated the danger of believing in buzzwords. It's nice that Trebor puts so much stock in crowdsourcing; if you like crowdsourcing and want to hear about it a lot, vote for Trebor for CSM7; he's a great rep and a hiseccer. And he loves his crowdsourcing.

Crowdsourcing! Like 'Excellence', perhaps if you say it enough times magic fairies will happen.

How so? A poll of players concerns could be a valuable tool but the way it was done made it into a joke.

If you only want the game played your way, and want to force others to play it the way you want, then being the chair of a group that filters out players concerns and presents the "most important" ones to CPP would help you push your agenda.

So you are basing all these lame arguments on the assumption that The Mittani wants everybody to play the game exactly the same way he does? I hope I'm wrong because that's pretty stupid.

I don't see how polling is going to be harmful, unless you automatically assume that it will be used improperly. It's a tool like anything else.

The CSM is subjective, and pushes the game towards the way they want it.

We need an objective measure of what the players want, not subjective players who get to choose what issues get presented to CCP.

the whole point is that "polling" can be used to skew results in your favor even more.

When CCP goes into crazy, "lets fix everything" mode like they are now, looking at the crowdsourcing results is an important clue as to where they can get the most bang for their buck.

When CCP goes into crazy, "lets fix everything" mode like they are now, looking at the crowdsourcing results is an important clue as to where they can get the most bang for their buck.

And that's exactly why I did it.

And do you believe docking games is the number one problem that Eve players have with the game?

I think this will just have to be my stock reply for the now-daily idiotic threads from miners who mistakenly blame the CSM for their dead Mackinaws:

And do you believe docking games is the number one problem that Eve players have with the game?

Sweetums, you not only know that the voting was affected by EVE Uni bloc-voting, but also that the results are available with the EVE Uni votes removed. Really, the lack of effort you put into your trolling is disheartening.

But now that you mention it, the fact that bloc-voting can distort voting results is an issue. Perhaps something can be done in the next CSM elections to reduce its effect. Thanks for reminding me!

Sweetums, you not only know that the voting was affected by EVE Uni bloc-voting, but also that the results are available with the EVE Uni votes removed. Really, the lack of effort you put into your trolling is disheartening.

I think it's fair to say that even if it's not the most important issue, EVE would certainly be the better for fixing it. It's not something that takes a huge amount of code-dev resources to fix, either. It's a game-balance issue.

Actually, I have, and clearly you are trolling me. According to CCP's own figures, voter participation in the last CSM election was around 14%, up from 12% in the previous election. You can check that information on CCP's sites, TenTonHammer, and Massively, among others. Those figures mean that 86% percent of players are currently not connected to the CSM. I think my point stands.

Why are ttose 86% disconnected? Where they hindered from voting? Or did they just not care enough?

Yes, I read the original post... I just disagree. When a single member of the CSM decides to take a quick little poll, said poll should not be the basis of the activities of the rest of the CSM, and the CSM should not be judged by it's adherence to that poll's results. That is the entirety of my point. I'm not saying that you're totally wrong, or that more polls or better ways of polling would be somehow bad... just that they're far less important then you seem to think.

The best possible counter to bloc voting is for everybody to vote. The more people who vote, the less effect a bloc of finite size can sway results.

Yet by removing the e-uni votes you're left with an even tinier fraction of the playerbase voting so those results are even more unreliable. Face it...your "crowdsourcing" idea failed.

I think after five CSMs where nothing of note was accomplished most players just checked out of the whole process. It wasn't until CSM6 actually started to make a difference that people woke up. The funniest thing is that everything this CSM has worked for will make the game better as a whole but because some people can't see beyond the fact that Mittens is a goon they won't admit it.

In all of the anti-CSM/anti-Mittens threads I keep asking for just one example of how the current CSM has hurt the game and I haven't yet gotten an answer.

If so, the participation should rise next time, fair enough. But checking out and then complaining is outright stupid, because they had an equal opportunity and did not use it.
And making changes to the CSM right now would be political suicide from CCP because everybody would see it as an attempt to neuter its influence.

But the current CSM is no more effective at addressing all players and the game as a whole than previous ones.

I've never seen so much whining and crying about the CSM as I have in the last month. They must be doing something right.