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Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
116
   |
Posted - 2011.10.25 13:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a proposal I decided to make it's own thread for since it was part of another thread I made and seemed to be the only popular proposal of the 3. I also had this thread in the original forums and it seemed to be split in terms of support. I will try to be a little more clear on this proposal.
So the idea is to have AoE damage from ships exploding in space from combat damage. It was brought up in the previous thread that self destructing your ship should not cause AoE damage. I agree with this and a good reasoning would be that a self destruct is a "controlled" explosion achieved by purging your power core. When it comes to exploding from combat damage taken an AoE explosion similar to a smart bomb would occur. The explosion itself wouldn't have to be too different from a smartbomb in itself in fact.
Damage type would be based on the faction of the ship that is exploding. Damage radius based on ship size. Amount of damage also based on ship size. Smaller ships would be able to mitigate the damage better than larger ships thus taking less damage total. Distance from the exploding ship and also your own ships speed would also be a factor in damage mitigation. The further away you are the less damage you take and the faster you move the less you take. The damage itself should be enough to do decent damage but not enough to take any ship from full shield to gone. I wouldn't say the damage should even be enough to do 20% of a ships main defense in damage.
One main concern is that of this occuring in High Sec with pirates mass killing people in Jita and what would happen with the resulting GCC. This one is simple. No AoE damage in High Sec. This is already done by the fact that you cant use smartbombs. This will prevent pirates and gankers from using their ships to mass kill people in Jita. No AoE damage in High Sec. Very simple.
When it comes to Low Sec however we could either apply the same rules as High Sec or allow it and assign the GCC from each explosion hitting another player based on the last person who hit the exploding target. Whoever got the killmail gets the GCC for each person that exploding ship hit with its explosion. Personally I am for the latter train of thought as it is Low Sec. Killmails themselves should also be assigned to the last person to hit a ship in cases where a possible chain reaction of exploding ships occurs in large fleet fights. So it would be possible for one person to get 2 or more kills with his final blow on one ship. That part I am sure is highly debatable.
This damage is not meant to be a tool for doing massive AoE damage but instead another dynamic part of the game to mix up PvP and separate the blob a little.
I am looking for constructive feedback and opinions on the issue.
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
62
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 17:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
So the idea is to have AoE damage from ships exploding in space from combat damage. It was brought up in the previous thread that self destructing your ship should not cause AoE damage. I agree with this and a good reasoning would be that a self destruct is a "controlled" explosion achieved by purging your power core. When it comes to exploding from combat damage taken an AoE explosion similar to a smart bomb would occur. The explosion itself wouldn't have to be too different from a smartbomb in itself in fact.
So exactly how, from a lore perspective, could you justify this not happening in highsec? if a ship explodes, it explodes. Doesn't matter if it's in Jita or EC-P8R. the explosion is the same, so it should do the same thing. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
116
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 17:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
So the idea is to have AoE damage from ships exploding in space from combat damage. It was brought up in the previous thread that self destructing your ship should not cause AoE damage. I agree with this and a good reasoning would be that a self destruct is a "controlled" explosion achieved by purging your power core. When it comes to exploding from combat damage taken an AoE explosion similar to a smart bomb would occur. The explosion itself wouldn't have to be too different from a smartbomb in itself in fact.
So exactly how, from a lore perspective, could you justify this not happening in highsec? if a ship explodes, it explodes. Doesn't matter if it's in Jita or EC-P8R. the explosion is the same, so it should do the same thing.
Thats actually a good and valid question. One which I knew would come up. Before someone had brought this up and suggested something along the lines of Concord placing some magical tech device that supresses ship explosions so they do not effect other pilots. I believe at that time I suggested this only be implemented near stations and gates so that GCC and damage from exploding ships could occur everywhere else in a high sec system but just not within a certain range of gates and stations. I think I was thoroughly shot down on that idea for some reason. I still feel it is reasonable however.
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
116
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 18:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
So the idea is to have AoE damage from ships exploding in space from combat damage. It was brought up in the previous thread that self destructing your ship should not cause AoE damage. I agree with this and a good reasoning would be that a self destruct is a "controlled" explosion achieved by purging your power core. When it comes to exploding from combat damage taken an AoE explosion similar to a smart bomb would occur. The explosion itself wouldn't have to be too different from a smartbomb in itself in fact.
So exactly how, from a lore perspective, could you justify this not happening in highsec? if a ship explodes, it explodes. Doesn't matter if it's in Jita or EC-P8R. the explosion is the same, so it should do the same thing. Thats actually a good and valid question. One which I knew would come up. Before someone had brought this up and suggested something along the lines of Concord placing some magical tech device that supresses ship explosions so they do not effect other pilots. I believe at that time I suggested this only be implemented near stations and gates so that GCC and damage from exploding ships could occur everywhere else in a high sec system but just not within a certain range of gates and stations. I think I was thoroughly shot down on that idea for some reason. I still feel it is reasonable however.
See bold/underlined text.
It is made of fail.
"War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
116
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 19:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
I didn't say it was a good "lore" idea. I said it was something suggested by someone else in the previous thread. Frankly for the lore aspect of it I could care less. The mechanic would only be in place to prevent the massive carebear tears in high sec that would ensue. Did you have a better idea Jack? I wouldn't mind seeing it if you do.
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
glepp
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
46
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 19:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
I foresee small amounts of lag with this proposal. |
Max Von Sydow
Droneboat Diplomacy
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 19:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
So the idea is to have AoE damage from ships exploding in space from combat damage. It was brought up in the previous thread that self destructing your ship should not cause AoE damage. I agree with this and a good reasoning would be that a self destruct is a "controlled" explosion achieved by purging your power core. When it comes to exploding from combat damage taken an AoE explosion similar to a smart bomb would occur. The explosion itself wouldn't have to be too different from a smartbomb in itself in fact.
So exactly how, from a lore perspective, could you justify this not happening in highsec? if a ship explodes, it explodes. Doesn't matter if it's in Jita or EC-P8R. the explosion is the same, so it should do the same thing.
Couldnt gates and stations in highsec be outfitted with an anti-AoE device that has been stopping smartbombs so far but now also ship explosions?
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
116
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 19:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
That was kind of the point yeah. Its already been done with smartbombs...wheres the lore in that and just build off it.
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Rawbone
S3MINAL FLUID
Below Me.
4
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Posted - 2011.10.26 02:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
I love the idea of AOE explosions. the bigger the structure/ship the farther away you'd better be. having said that, an explosion in null is the same as an explosion in the magical fairy land of Empire, so .. not supported. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
120
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 17:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
The problem with not restricting the AoE explosions in Empire is that 10 guys with the proper ships and timing could use it to kill a lot of people on the Jita undock. That would bring a new idiotic gank mechanic that really doesn't need to be there.
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
121
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 18:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
And the problem with limiting AoE explosions in Empire is that it would create an imbalance.
High Security space is just that "High Security," meaning it is heavily patrolled by Faction Police, and CONCORD will respond to criminal actions and deal with it in short order. It is not "Absolute Security," nor is it meant to be. New Eden isn't a place that is meant to hold your hand. It is cold, ruthless, and ever-changing. Adapt or die.
"War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
MNagy
Yo-Mama
Quixotic Hegemony
24
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 18:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
I like explosion idea.
If someone wants to somehow blow up a tonne of ships in hs for some ganking purpose.
Would be cool if you got a killmail on a ship only cause ur ship blew up and laid the final blow on the ship pew pewing you.
+1
If HS is the only reason not to put this in - stop pampering everyone in eve and let HS have this quirk. |
Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo
Tragedy.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.26 19:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1
For those interested in facilitating an explanation within the lore:
In this game we have lasers, ships that can cloak, cyno's, and wormhole travel to say the least. If all of that is technically possible in the game, how farfetched would it be to have a system designed to mitigate the issue with highsec AOE damage?
"Concord has recently developed a system protocol, AEGISGäó, designed to sense the physical disturbance of the compromised integrity ship's structure. Microseconds from explosion, sensors developed by Kaalakiota and configured into the highsec stargate network will determine the area of effect and place a force field around the compromised ship. As the ship explodes the force field contains the blast mitigating any damage to nearby ships."
Alright.. Physics majors, tweak this and make it factual, since EvE is RL.... |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
122
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 19:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
lol...yay for EvE physicists!
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Trusty Jutspezic
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 20:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hey let's nerf close range weaponry and small ships to cut down on blobs guys. Hey hey hey, it's a good idea, hey.
In truth you can tell when one side is horribly outnumbered when they end up doing a lot more exploding than the blob. Also the smaller group will have more ships exploding right when they all warp in before they have time to spread out. Now not only are you outnumbered and exploding faster than the other guys, you're also taking damage from being outnumbered and exploding. Heh.
Oh, also also it'll end up doing things like blowing up dictor bubbles paradoxically making a rout LESS lethal by nerfing the main method of tackling dudes. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
67
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 21:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Proclus Diadochu wrote:+1
For those interested in facilitating an explanation within the lore:
In this game we have lasers, ships that can cloak, cyno's, and wormhole travel to say the least. If all of that is technically possible in the game, how farfetched would it be to have a system designed to mitigate the issue with highsec AOE damage?
"Concord has recently developed a system protocol, AEGISGäó, designed to sense the physical disturbance of the compromised integrity of a ship's structure. Microseconds from explosion, sensors developed by Kaalakiota and configured into the highsec stargate network will determine the area of effect and place a force field around the compromised ship. As the ship explodes the force field contains the blast mitigating any damage to nearby ships."
Alright.. Physics majors, tweak this and make it factual, since EvE is RL....
And why, exactly, would this not be standard in low and nullsec? Why wouldn't it be default in NPC controlled stations and an option in player controlled ones?
If you want ship explosions, have them everywhere, or have them nowhere.
As for the smartbomb thing, not being able to activate a module is not the same as containing a nuclear reactor going boom. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
123
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 22:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Proclus Diadochu wrote:+1
For those interested in facilitating an explanation within the lore:
In this game we have lasers, ships that can cloak, cyno's, and wormhole travel to say the least. If all of that is technically possible in the game, how farfetched would it be to have a system designed to mitigate the issue with highsec AOE damage?
"Concord has recently developed a system protocol, AEGISGäó, designed to sense the physical disturbance of the compromised integrity of a ship's structure. Microseconds from explosion, sensors developed by Kaalakiota and configured into the highsec stargate network will determine the area of effect and place a force field around the compromised ship. As the ship explodes the force field contains the blast mitigating any damage to nearby ships."
Alright.. Physics majors, tweak this and make it factual, since EvE is RL.... And why, exactly, would this not be standard in low and nullsec? Why wouldn't it be default in NPC controlled stations and an option in player controlled ones? If you want ship explosions, have them everywhere, or have them nowhere. As for the smartbomb thing, not being able to activate a module is not the same as containing a nuclear reactor going boom.
Because just like Concord isn't interested in protecting you in Lowsec and Nullsec they aren't interested in investing time and money for station and gate upgrades.
Again I will state that I am not personally opposed to the explosions damaging players in Highsec but there is the obvious problem of exploiting this kind of mechanic to the benefit of pirates and gankers. Most freaked out about it on the old thread so this was the solution to still allow the mechanic change without changing life in Highsec for the bears.
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
141
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 00:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bumping for revival.
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
109
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 00:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
+1 |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
23
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 06:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
As I posted in the other thread, have AoE on ship death for capitals only as the sub caps don't have the mass to go critical.
So in theory, only Orca's and Freighters would have AoE in hi sec and I think most sensible people will see it getting ready to die and vacate the area if they don't want to go with it.
As these ships are effectively defenseless, any splash damage that results in CONCORD intervention will be given to the party(ies) involved in the kill. This might actually be a good thing as it will make suicide gankers think twice about popping a capital near a station or a gate (or maybe not if it's for the lolz) and even people involved in a wardec might think twice too. A further level of protection for capitals in hi sec.
For too long the death of a capital ship has been rather weak. It's a capital ship for crying out loud. When one of them goes boom it should be absolutely freakin awesome, not a wimper.
I can see a good use for super carriers after the nerf...cyno into the middle of a fleet and your own side shoots it before the bad guys get out the way....true suicide bombers in EVE  |
Samillian
Trojan Trolls
Controlled Chaos
19
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 11:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
I like the idea of AoE blast damage from ships and structures but it would need to be across all of EvE and I can see a real possibility of it feeding the lag monster. The idea that only capital ships have the required mass to go critical and produce AoE damage is a good one and worth looking into. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
673
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 18:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
+1 |
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 23:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
if AoE, then it should be
- possible in all kinds of space
- deal same damage to all entities in the radius (no difference to large /small ships)
and why should a self-destruct not cause damage? you are still able to "overload" your ship to explode (factor in a mix of remaining cap and hull?) - this should cause more damage than the breaking of the last intact steel beam?!
in the end balancing is needed how much AoE could be done in what circumstances.
i could imagine smaller ships doing less AoE damage at a smaller radius.
amount should vary and be no more than 2 smartbombs going off (small ship=small smart bomb, ...). so in regards to ganking or blobs have a limited impact.
more little ideas that need your support:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=261507#post261507
enjoying the order cancellation confirmation? sometimes CCP listens - there is hope after all :)
www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1431503 |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
187
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 14:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
I have no problems personally with the AoE damage working in all space. A problem I WOULD have with it is people exploiting it for ganking and piracy in high sec on stations.
My original intent with this part of the idea was to allow explosions in high sec to cause damage to other ships. However I wanted to have an idea where gates and stations had some sort of explosion dampening field that would prevent the AoE damage on ships within a range of 250km of a gate or station but only in Highsec. What I would hate to see is people blowing up their own ships in large numbers doing massive damage to other smaller ships in large numbers just for the hell of it. I thought my solution would work rather well and even had a lore reason behind it but people shot it down to no end so I dropped it.
Also to answer your question on the self destruct issue. The idea was that a self destruct is a controlled destruction of the ship in which your ships power core is purged before the ship is destroyed. When you blow up from taking too much damage you don't have the opportunity to do this so the power core explodes causing the damage to other ships.
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
138
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 21:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
yes, as long as it takes into acount signature size.
Don't want a fleet fight and every frigate is dead within the first couple tackles.
Frigates should take very little damage.
I really would like to see this.
As for poeple worries about ganking....a ship explosion will not do more damage than 8 large smart bombs.
If I want to suicide aoe gank you....I will and my ship explosion will not be what does it. A ship explosion would not one shot any ship.
Just pointing out all the worries of abuse are sort of silly.
Need more-ádecent content a casual player can access in a 1-2h play period that is actually fun and contributes to long term personal and corp goals. This applies to PvE and PvP. |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 13:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
It's all very well saying you want AoE in all space but what about aggro and CONCORD?
How long do you think before there's a threadnaught because someone ganked a noob and his AoE at a station undock knocked him to -10 one day into the game? No more EVE for him with that toon.
I am all for AoE but only on supers. This will limit the mayhem that will ensue in hi sec.
So it would only affect Orca's, Freighters, Jump Freighters, Rorqual's, Carriers, Dread, Super Carriers and Titans.
You will still see big bangs in hi sec, just not from every ship that gets popped.
Good thing for the Orca's, Freighters and Jump Freighters, as they have zero combat capability, the aggro from AoE should be given to the killers instead of the pilot if they catch some 'innocent' bystanders with AoE. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
191
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 13:25:00 -
[27] - Quote
AoE only on supers? Absolutely not. That would make no sense at all. We have already specified that we can limit AoE on stations and gates to address your concern specifically.
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 13:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:AoE only on supers? Absolutely not. That would make no sense at all. We have already specified that we can limit AoE on stations and gates to address your concern specifically.
Yes you can 'limit' it, but you cannot totally remove it.
If there's any chance of innocent gankee's getting a sec hit for being popped then I wouldn't support AoE at all. After all, that's a double hit for them....losing a ship AND a sec hit. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
191
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 16:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I have no problems personally with the AoE damage working in all space. A problem I WOULD have with it is people exploiting it for ganking and piracy in high sec on stations.
My original intent with this part of the idea was to allow explosions in high sec to cause damage to other ships. However I wanted to have an idea where gates and stations had some sort of explosion dampening field that would prevent the AoE damage on ships within a range of 250km of a gate or station but only in Highsec. What I would hate to see is people blowing up their own ships in large numbers doing massive damage to other smaller ships in large numbers just for the hell of it. I thought my solution would work rather well and even had a lore reason behind it but people shot it down to no end so I dropped it.
Also to answer your question on the self destruct issue. The idea was that a self destruct is a controlled destruction of the ship in which your ships power core is purged before the ship is destroyed. When you blow up from taking too much damage you don't have the opportunity to do this so the power core explodes causing the damage to other ships.
I hate quoting myself...
Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 17:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
So the idea is to have AoE damage from ships exploding in space from combat damage. It was brought up in the previous thread that self destructing your ship should not cause AoE damage. I agree with this and a good reasoning would be that a self destruct is a "controlled" explosion achieved by purging your power core. When it comes to exploding from combat damage taken an AoE explosion similar to a smart bomb would occur. The explosion itself wouldn't have to be too different from a smartbomb in itself in fact.
So exactly how, from a lore perspective, could you justify this not happening in highsec? if a ship explodes, it explodes. Doesn't matter if it's in Jita or EC-P8R. the explosion is the same, so it should do the same thing. Thats actually a good and valid question. One which I knew would come up. Before someone had brought this up and suggested something along the lines of Concord placing some magical tech device that supresses ship explosions so they do not effect other pilots. I believe at that time I suggested this only be implemented near stations and gates so that GCC and damage from exploding ships could occur everywhere else in a high sec system but just not within a certain range of gates and stations. I think I was thoroughly shot down on that idea for some reason. I still feel it is reasonable however. See bold/underlined text. It is made of fail.
I'll quote Jack on this one.... |
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