| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Andraea Sarstae
Circle of Steel Inc.
1
   |
Posted - 2013.07.14 01:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been reading up on the MWD/Cloak trick and using it with haulers. I've noticed that there are a lot of people that assume that you need to the the align time down to 10s in order for the trick to work.
I just tried it with the setup below, with maxed out agility skills. According to EFT, the warp time is 16s, which is well above the supposed 10s threshold.
But I am easily able to insta-warp as soon as the MWD stops running, so it seems that the 10s assumption is incorrect.
I just thought I'd pass this info on.
Now I'm wondering an Impel with a full load of cargo expanders is also MWD/Cloak capable.... that's 36k m3 of room.
[Iteron Mark V, Test]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Reactor Control Unit II
Reactor Control Unit II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
Improved Cloaking Device II
[empty high slot]
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
|
Dietrich III
Hard Knocks Inc.
Kill It With Fire
23
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 02:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't think you understand how this "trick" truly works, so let me explain it.
You can't go by that 16s align time because that's assuming you had your MWD on the whole time until you enter warp. Your ship moves faster with an MWD on, but accelerates to its top speed slower than it would without it on because turning on prop mods increases your ship's mass (which in turn, with your inertia modifier, controls your acceleration rate). This is why when you turn on prop mods in EFT, your align time increases.
To enter warp all you need is for your velocity vector to be pointing in the direction you intend to warp, and for your ship's speed to be at least 75% of your top speed when you click the warp button.
When you do the cloak-mwd-align trick from a standstill, your ship instantly will start moving in the direction you are aligning to regardless of its displayed orientation. All you need to concern yourself with is that your ship's speed while cloaked must be at least 75% of your top speed while decloaked. You want to try entering warp as soon as the MWD finishes its cycle because after that instant, your top speed suddenly drops but your ship hasn't decelerated to match that new, lower top speed. You're already pointing in the right direction so you'll enter warp the instant you decloak and click the warp button.
So really, the only function that could be implemented in EFT is for it to calculate if your cloaked, MWD-on speed will be 75% of your decloaked, MWD-off speed after 10 seconds. It'd be a cool feature but it's not hard to try this stuff out on SiSi or TQ. |
Andraea Sarstae
Circle of Steel Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 02:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Apparently, a lot of people don't understand how it works, because I kept seeing the 10s threshold mentioned over and over.
That was the point of the OP... to inform others that might have read that and just assumed it was true. |
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 02:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Actually, the reason it's different is because of gatecloak. If you try to do the MWD + Cloak trick from anywhere except out of gatecloak it actually will not work in a slow-aligning ship.
When you are under gatecloak your ship is, as far as the game is concerned, not pointed in ANY direction. As a result, you instantly align to the first thing you tell your ship to move towards. Since you're instantly aligned, all you need to enter warp is 75% of max speed, which is why the MWD + Cloak trick works, and also why you can use webs to instawarp freighters from gate cloak. |
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
220
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 02:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Actually, the reason it's different is because of gatecloak. If you try to do the MWD + Cloak trick from anywhere except out of gatecloak it actually will not work in a slow-aligning ship.
When you are under gatecloak your ship is, as far as the game is concerned, not pointed in ANY direction. As a result, you instantly align to the first thing you tell your ship to move towards. Since you're instantly aligned, all you need to enter warp is 75% of max speed, which is why the MWD + Cloak trick works, and also why you can use webs to instawarp freighters from gate cloak.
To clarify, it isnt just gate cloak. As soon as your ship is perfectly still it has no direction. Doesnt matter if it is under a gate cloak or not. This is why there is no such thing as passive align (many suggest pointing your mining vessel to a station so you can get away faster.. this isnt true) |
Idicious Lightbane
Wolfsbrigade
Lost Obsession
46
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 09:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Linda Shadowborn wrote:Xequecal wrote:Actually, the reason it's different is because of gatecloak. If you try to do the MWD + Cloak trick from anywhere except out of gatecloak it actually will not work in a slow-aligning ship.
When you are under gatecloak your ship is, as far as the game is concerned, not pointed in ANY direction. As a result, you instantly align to the first thing you tell your ship to move towards. Since you're instantly aligned, all you need to enter warp is 75% of max speed, which is why the MWD + Cloak trick works, and also why you can use webs to instawarp freighters from gate cloak. To clarify, it isnt just gate cloak. As soon as your ship is perfectly still it has no direction. Doesnt matter if it is under a gate cloak or not. This is why there is no such thing as passive align (many suggest pointing your mining vessel to a station so you can get away faster.. this isnt true)
When people talk about being passively alligned they generally mean alligned to something at a low speed so getting up to 75% takesl less time than it would at a standstill/moving in another direction. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
54
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 09:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:
When people talk about being passively alligned they generally mean alligned to something at a low speed so getting up to 75% takesl less time than it would at a standstill/moving in another direction.
This. The only way to be passively aligned is to move in the direction you wish to warp at a slow speed. Miners sometimes use webifiers in pairs to keep their speed low enough for mining while being aligned to a celestial or station.
The problem is that many people do not understand how EvE works, and think that they way their ship is pointing is something more than just a visual presentation. |
Whitehound
1535
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 10:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Andraea Sarstae wrote:Apparently, a lot of people don't understand how it works, because I kept seeing the 10s threshold mentioned over and over.
That was the point of the OP... to inform others that might have read that and just assumed it was true.
Some ships do have a problem with the MWD+cloak trick, but it is like others have said not as simple as comparing align times to 10 seconds.
It is about the speed your ship will have after 10 seconds with MWD. This speed needs to be 75% of your ship's base speed.
EFT cannot tell you what your ship's speed after 10 seconds will be. It can only tell you the time it needs to reach 75% of your top speed.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Druthlen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 19:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Most...Informative...Thread...Ever.... |
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
454
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 20:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Actually, the reason it's different is because of gatecloak.
Wrong, goon.
http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/ |
|
|
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1454
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 20:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Wow, speculation is all over the place in this thread.
How about someone that actually coded this stuff sounds off to let us know what's what? At this point this thread has so man y opinions in it that none of it can be relied upon. You here, Devs?
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
1454
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 20:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bertrand Butler wrote:Miners sometimes use webifiers in pairs to keep their speed low enough for mining while being aligned to a celestial or station.
In 7 years of playing I've never seen this once. Maybe it's done in NPC null or contested null, but it sure isn't done in high.
Bertrand Butler wrote:The problem is that many people do not understand how EvE works, and think that they way their ship is pointing is something more than just a visual presentation.
This, definately this.
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Andraea Sarstae
Circle of Steel Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 03:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Wow, speculation is all over the place in this thread.
How about someone that actually coded this stuff sounds off to let us know what's what? At this point this thread has so man y opinions in it that none of it can be relied upon. You here, Devs?
You can also just go try it out for yourself. It's not like these ships and modules are expensive.
That's what I did, and thought I'd share what I found. |
Birkdale Alphorin
M.A.R.S. Unlimited
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Holy crap I'm more confused than ever before. I was just trying to see why my MWD or AB wouldn't work with the cloak I was using. I believe the "GO TRY IT IN THE GAME" part was probably the best recommendation.
In a somewhat related topic, anyone know of a corporation that is centered around destroying gate campers? That sounds like fun and and good way to get some revenge. |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
76
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 20:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Birkdale Alphorin wrote:Holy crap I'm more confused than ever before. I was just trying to see why my MWD or AB wouldn't work with the cloak I was using. I believe the "GO TRY IT IN THE GAME" part was probably the best recommendation.
In a somewhat related topic, anyone know of a corporation that is centered around destroying gate campers? That sounds like fun and and good way to get some revenge.
Any PvP corp worth their salt that hears of a gatecamp that they can take will probably go after it.
|
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
4052
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 05:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Andraea Sarstae wrote:Apparently, a lot of people don't understand how it works, because I kept seeing the 10s threshold mentioned over and over.
That was the point of the OP... to inform others that might have read that and just assumed it was true.
The 10 second rule is for using an MWD cycle to reduce your align time. It only works if your align time without an MWD is higher than 10 seconds, because the MWD cycle lasts 10 seconds. If it's naturally less than 10 seconds, you're better off keeping your MWD off.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production
Headshot Gaming
19
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 05:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
The reason 10sec is mentioned is that its the cycle time of a MWD, you have to be at 75% of you non MWD speed by the time the MWD cycle runs out.
So lets say your top speed is 100m/s (warp speed would be 75m/s), your MWD gives you a 500% (bad skills) boost and the cloak is a 25% T2 version.
So with a MWD on your top speed is 600m/s but with a cloak on its 150m/s. If your align time with the MWD on is 15 seconds then you will get to 112.5 in that time but you cycle is 10 secs so you only get to 2/3 of that speed , 2/3 of 112.5 is 75m/s.
In this example you need exactly the full 10 seconds, but if your MWD has a greater boost from better skills (625% is max) then you would not need the full 10 seconds however you still need to wait the cycle out. |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 08:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
very interesting
GÇó the miner webs idea is excellent for multiboxing
|
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 08:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Andraea Sarstae wrote:Apparently, a lot of people don't understand how it works, because I kept seeing the 10s threshold mentioned over and over.
That was the point of the OP... to inform others that might have read that and just assumed it was true. The 10 second rule is for using an MWD cycle to reduce your align time. It only works if your align time without an MWD is higher than 10 seconds, because the MWD cycle lasts 10 seconds. If it's naturally less than 10 seconds, you're better off keeping your MWD off.
i appreciate the sense you are making, sir.
OP was just confused |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |