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Eve and the venom in people

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vyperpit	Posted - 2003.08.14 13:58:00 - [1] I am not to sure about other people though but through eve I have met some amazing characters not just in game I have made friends I hope to keep in contact with for a while yet. It has been such an experience not all good. I don’t think any one can say they are all good The players of eve as I can tell or have seen when on mass, can be cruel and unfair to every one and every thing. Rather then talking or discussing they see the need to make remarks that over time will actually dig a deep wound. To name a few groups that has been targeted. Pirates = yes pirates may have done some stupid or cruel things but do not deserve the abuse and insults that get posted about them or sent to them it would be unrealistic of me to think that they where innocent of all they are accused of. But also it does not mean that they all deserved to be hung or stoned. Gm’s & Polaris = they can only help so many people and to be honest have to put up with a lot of attacks on there credibility which is wrong, soon as something happens it’s blamed on a bug, exploit or GM’s / Polaris. This is so wrong and should stop, they have a job to do and any one who works with or around customer support in any way will know it is not easy and is very frustrating. Alliances or mega corps = again soon as one arises there is not just the normal in game role-played style banter. But there is real hate chucked at these people, the game allows and in fact was meant to be this way and so people who do not like it just want to lash out. There have been so much trash talks, flaming and downright disgraceful remarks made about corps or individuals. Dev’s = the way a lot of people act towards the dev’s is descacful they supply you with a game that is on he whole a great laugh. There are bugs in it and yes problems, but there has never been a game that has not had problems to start with or a game that has not needed patches to fix them. I salute the devs for doing a bang up job and hope you get stuff fixed soon. I know these types of things will not stop, but I would like to ask as many people that will listen, control what you say, try and keep it civil if you do not have something to say then don’t. I think I will end this now if I go on I think I will become and act like the people I am starting to dislike. It is an addiction you can’t be with out it and a lot of people are a bit to protective about it. I will some this up into one short comment. “Please act at the very least Civil to each other there is no need for acting any other way” if you wish to respond to this post please do not flame me as these are my feelings and I have tried to put them as objectively as possible Vyperpit Eve addict ---- Fair Fighting Quote stolen from Waagaa Ktlehr who borrowed it from ??? "If you end up in a fair fight, you planned it wrong." (Ehm yeah, or CCP ****ed with the scanner again..)
vyperpit	Posted - 2003.08.14 13:58:00 - [2] Ok I am not to sure how to start this off as I think whatever way I do I will not be able to please every one. Ok I suppose what I should start with is why does a game that is meant to be a lot of fun for people bring out so much spite, malice and venom in the people of eve. I have a theory about this I think it is down to an addiction. Eve the game I can honestly say I am totally addicted to this game and everything and every one in it for the good and bad. But lately I do not know what it is but there seems to be so many flame trolls and various actions that seem to degrade and spoil Eve. A lot of people have almost a fever when it comes to the game and the stuff they expect to see done, you also see the very verbal people who are in game as well. There are also the quite ones who every so often post something of such importance it may have a profound effect on eve (not happened as much for a while). Please note I am not trying to feed the flamers or the troll’s all I want to do is show what I think of eve and the population to date. Now you must remember that a lot of the players have been in beta and so yes the game has lost that shine it maybe once had but it does not mean it is any less dear to them. A lot of people also do not seem to know the difference between role-play and real life it is a shame. When I first came into eve many moons ago I was full of awe at what this game was, how amazing it was and how great things could be. How many people here have or had spent hours talking to friends about this game maybe fantasying what you would become in eve. For me that was a magical time but like all those moments reality catches up with you. At some point I know I did, you become a little down hearted you expected so much from this game or once again I know I did. If I have learnt one thing it is that you will find the majority of the people that complain about the game in various forms actually care about it to much. They want to see changes to a game to make it better and get frustrated when this does not happen so all people can do is lash out with things that are happening lately I felt I needed to add my 2 isk, My take on the populace of eve so far Ok picture the scene a large stream full of fish all going the same way all interacting with each other in some way. Now these are not always good but they happen. We then have the fish who are swimming a different way now they have struck out on there own want to cut there own path and live there own dreams, as a side effect this causes problems for others and when they arise people lash out. Now in eve there are more and more people corps trying to cut there own way and know that they can not help but knock a few noses out of joint. But it’s when you come down to people who seem to have no ability in controlling what they say, they flame and Spam or insult people, now this Is not just on forums but also in game as well. People cannot accept this is part of the game and this was what a lot of people expected to happen. ---- Fair Fighting Quote stolen from Waagaa Ktlehr who borrowed it from ??? "If you end up in a fair fight, you planned it wrong." (Ehm yeah, or CCP ****ed with the scanner again..)
Jack Hayden	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:02:00 - [3] The moment you forget EVE is a game and take things from said game out into the real world is the day you really should quit playing. Very good post. á "Spelling and grammatical errors are placed solely to test your abilities as a proofreader. All prices include 25% VAT."
Flaloch	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:05:00 - [4] Although i agree with most of what you are preaching, i believe the word "addiction" just gives people an excuse. "It's not my fault" People need to take responsibility for their own actions, and stop blaming others. "The people expected it of me and I had got to do it; I could feel their two thousand wills pressing me forward, irresistibly. " - Orwell
Thalen Mort	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:07:00 - [5] Excellent Post....with the differing paths each player takes there is bound to be conflict. This is the way the game is meant to be....There is no need to childishly insult or attack someone because his/her veiw does not match your own....we do not have to all agree on a topic....but should respect each others rights too..... --------------------------------------------- Just because you are paranoid does not mean people are not out to get you.
Carbon	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:12:00 - [6] Edited by: Carbon on 14/08/2003 14:12:25 Some things to add: This hypersensetivity seen in EVE is something common to all MMOGs, but its even worse in MMORG. I feel this is mainly due to the fact that most people buy the game at the store and think "Cool! I can blow things up!" without any idea of how to roleplay, or "blow things up" in a RP manner. These people then clash with those who realize that they're in a game which was intended to include some roleplaying, and things get ugly. However, I should point out that even some non-roleplaying multiplayer online games suffer from this phenomenon.. it is likely because most people put more emotional value into their time spent in such games. RPGs, in particular, are set up so you invest time and effort into your char.. so you're more likely to feel an emotion response if something happens to him/her. I can say quite honestly that losing/dying in single player games (FPS or RTS) never had quite an impact that a loss in a game like EVE has. Its like having someone steal your small order of fatty frenchfries and then having someone steal your Plasma TV.. which would hurt you more? Probably the TV, because you invested more into it. (note: this is assuming you're an average consumer and not superrich.. having bought the TV instead of a car :))
Miso	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:17:00 - [7] Good post Vyper -------------------------------------------- Dead
SkyLeach	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:24:00 - [8] Shut up you moron!!! good post vyp ;)
Capn Blood	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:25:00 - [9] Wise man sayeth... "Never underestimate the stupidity and narrowminded cruelty of your fellow man and you will be seldom surprised." There's a lot of people who feel safe hiding behind that monitor in complete anonymity......brings out the worst in many unfortunately. ============================================== "Trust no man who says to you that 'The ends justify the means' or who says that 'We will do whatever it takes...'. These men have no honour, and are fit only to be politicians." The book of Rab Chapter 1, Verse 3. ==============================================
NastyLlama	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:25:00 - [10] Ahhh, nice to see a refreshing post in the troll filled boards ================================================== I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
Shock	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:28:00 - [11] Quote: Alliances or mega corps = again soon as one arises there is not just the normal in game role-played style banter. But there is real hate chucked at these people, the game allows and in fact was meant to be this way and so people who do not like it just want to lash out. Hmm I disagree, they are all squatting pirate controlled regions while at the same time farming them. If corps want to get their own piece of space it should be in uncontrolled space with their own stations. Ofcourse this is not possible atm. --- soonÖ
vyperpit	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:29:00 - [12] cheers sky luv you to ---- Fair Fighting Quote stolen from Waagaa Ktlehr who borrowed it from ??? "If you end up in a fair fight, you planned it wrong." (Ehm yeah, or CCP ****ed with the scanner again..)
Xeserox	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:34:00 - [13] There was this movie... that i absolutly Love, and when i play eve i think of the quote all the time. "Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity." Just like y-day.... some moron was playing that "arrrrr i'm the pirate role" in .5 space thinking he was all bad arsed.. Destroyed me in my rifter (not before getting his shields and armor tore off his ship...) Didn't say a word, didn't RP a think.. just lock and boom. Now mind you i'm not a Griefer.... People like Molly and the lovely folks in m0o at least say something first, and i repsect them for that. :) being podded and killed by them.. is worth it.. because they are like.. " HA i'm a pirate.. pay me money.. or.. you're dead." OR as Ywev says..." Pod ya later. " But yes, you are completely right that this game brings out that evilness within alot of people. They think they can just walk over everyone else, and yes it ruins the game. Alot of good Players, both Pirate and non-pirate players have been leaving the game and it's very sad to see them go. anyway, keep it real.... Xeserox -Free Lance Frigate Pilot
Varia	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:50:00 - [14] Nice post. oh and i like your lipstick too. Var Women that strive to equal men lack ambition.
Riddari	Posted - 2003.08.14 14:59:00 - [15] I was on the edge I think of taking this game too seriously. Being engrossed in it since beta 5 and making some nice advances (for example part of first corp to get maller bp in release.. that was a sweet one) I was close to starting to live too much Eve. I've stepped back and relaxed a bit. So what if I lose my battleship? If I lose it in a great battle it will just be sweet. I have my cruiser army in my hangars and am in the fortunate situation of being able to get into another battleship if I work at it for a few days. Step back, Eve is a game. Let's have fun ¼©¼ a history
Eurydike	Posted - 2003.08.14 15:01:00 - [16] curtseys before Vyperpit Thank you for summing up my thoughts so nicely. -------------------------------------- Sarela "Eurydike" Taris Vote Stavros for Kojak's brother.
Maud Dib	Posted - 2003.08.14 15:22:00 - [17] Well spoken Lady perhaps this will spark a wave of courtesy and good manners.
Calalbran	Posted - 2003.08.14 15:27:00 - [18] Thank you vyperpit. Those things needed saying, though I don't have much hope of it affecting the rabid few who cause the problems. They will read, but not understand.
Draco Darkmatter	Posted - 2003.08.14 15:43:00 - [19] Edited by: Draco Darkmatter on 14/08/2003 15:44:03 You are right Eve is just a game. Although Eve is not like other games. Eve is by far somthing new and inovative and as such there are many things that we as players may not understand about it. We all are here playingit because it is different for other MMOGs. Note I did not call it a MMORPG as it was never advertised as such, and I think the player base is devided in whether it is an RPG or not. Some of us are playing it as and RPG and althouhg we don;t mind getting racked over the coals by the likes of these so called Pirate corps we like to RP the encounter as it at least provides us a good gamed experance. There are others though who are here for non-RP reasons and care little for out desire to do so. They kill because they can and derive pleasure form the suffering of others, they are here to be the best and get the best and don't give a crap how it effects the rest of us. Eve is flexable enough to allow for both kinds of players the Role Players and the Power Gamers. It is unfortunate though that the two seem to frustrate each other. There are many other thing I would like to see addressed before this one though as they cause more frustration then this issues does. "Reality is just a myth... ...or so they tell me."
Loupdinour	Posted - 2003.08.14 15:54:00 - [20] Excellent post vyp. I'm glad to see there are still some civil people in Eve. Maybe once I stop seeing people like you around, then I'll be one to leave myself since the game will have gone to the dogs. As for those rabid people reading this post....I don't know how many will since it aint hate-filled and short. It takes a bit to read and it creates many useful points, so its not a normal troll post. ~bows to Vyp~ Great job again.
Hiro Protagonist	Posted - 2003.08.14 16:11:00 - [21] Edited by: Hiro Protagonist on 14/08/2003 16:12:49 Great post vyperpit. I've observed similar levels of venom in other online games. Usually the best thing one can do in response is surround one's self with people who have a mature, positive outlook - makes the game much more enjoyable than paying any attention to the people who scream "CCP bad!" just because a patch went a few hours longer than expected (just to pick a random example of excessive negativity).
Khal St	Posted - 2003.08.14 16:21:00 - [22] Vyper your welcome in my hangar anytime.. and to all those who enjoy the RP more of the same please Do it for the Biz... Only the insane prosper, only those who prosper can truly judge what is sane... Try TXI's Cal-afeÖ - That Caldari Power Taste! and now.. Tri-StarsiÖ - Power, Wealth & Revenge!
vyperpit	Posted - 2003.08.14 16:23:00 - [23] Khal St "i may take you up on that i like a man in uniform" ---- Fair Fighting Quote stolen from Waagaa Ktlehr who borrowed it from ??? "If you end up in a fair fight, you planned it wrong." (Ehm yeah, or CCP ****ed with the scanner again..)
Klydor	Posted - 2003.08.14 16:54:00 - [24] I think a lot of the venom (but not all) is due to the way some posts are made. A person may have a legitimate grevence, but posts in a very hostile way, putting everyone straight on the defensive and causing them to strike back with another hostile reply.
Fenklar	Posted - 2003.08.14 17:23:00 - [25] I agree, this is a good post. I miss the days of Beta when the boards were a forum for people to get usefull information on gameplay and issues encountered and how to work around them. I hope that the boards can once again transition themselves back to this. I applaud CCP fo their hard work and their dedication. Not many of the newer players that have been here since retail completly understand how far this game has really come. I would ask the EVE commmunity to try and turn these boards back into a postitve enviornment for the World of EVE and try and refrain from slandering others. That does not help anything in the end and only leads to more problems and detracts from the game and the community.
Muacha	Posted - 2003.08.14 17:40:00 - [26] What I find interesting is that this all seems to be a direct result of the game rules that CCP has established and advertised. What do I mean? Well to box says "Form a Cartel...gain power by any means necessary." ANY MEANS. Another is "Conceive a new life without boundaries, where murder, plunder, betrayal and delusions of grandeur will lead you to boundless glory or to the brink of ruin." WITHOUT BOUNDARIES Now, some of the most glaring problems, IMO stem from the fact that EVE is set up to be PVP all the way. Even within your own corp. Even CCP has posted that to prevent corporate theft, don't trust ANYONE!!! However, to overcome certain factions, alliances or corps, one obviously has to work with others. But the game allows your own corpmates to screw you! Which just causes me to not trust anyone unless I know them in r/l. To me this sets a tone for the game that is at odds with what I think the devs had in mind. Combine that with the costs of the items and the constant restrictions on earnings, through nerfing/balancing and it's understandable why ppl are frustrated. However, I agree, this should NEVER become personal. There are ways of disagreeing about ANY SUBJECT without having to get personal and attack the other persons character, beliefs, family heritage, etc. It's unfortunate that a game that pits every player against every other player would spill over into r/l personal attacks...but it happens. BTW, nice to see a constructive thread on the boards. Good job vp.
Rixeh	Posted - 2003.08.14 18:51:00 - [27] Money brings out the worst in people. This game is ENTIRELY BASED around gaining more money.... Follow the logic. ----- Of war men will ask its outcome, not its cause. -- Seneca
Marcus Grisbius	Posted - 2003.08.14 19:20:00 - [28] I'm glad to see this post. Now if everyone would take the advice that you have given things will be a lot nicer on the boards if nowhere else. One other thought on reactions to people groups, you mentioned the devs, ccp, pirates and such. Another thing to keep in mind is to not flame the flamers. Sure some people are illogical and downright mean, but let them do that. I know that it may be hard but ignore those comments. Don't add to the downward spiral by returning fire (flame) on the boards. Turn the other cheek, so to speak. Saying is true, "The love of money is the root of all evil." Nowhere is it more evident than in this game. If you have a problem with someone ingame, keep it there. People will have the toes stepped on but don't let it eat you up outside the game. Leave it there. All in all, a very good post. Thanks, it's refreshing to see. :) Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn
Preacher	Posted - 2003.08.14 19:27:00 - [29] Simply put, this game is not for everyone. Unfortunately, some of those people are not aware that this is the case and are attempting to force the game to become what they want it to be rather than playing the game in the manner that it was designed. Further, these same people feel that because they pay a monthly fee they are entitled to bombard the players and custodians of the game with their disenchanted rantings. The consequence of these actions are that the out-of-game community suffers. If you play Eve and never read the forums, you blissfully go about your business and never are the wiser to the venom and spite that fill these threads. MMOGs have an external component and that cannot be denied. Too often the behavior that is accepted outside the game is seldom accepted inside the game, so why not bring the two into synch? Just suspend or ban the people's posting privileges for a while. The worst that can happen is they get frustrated and quit, something they should have done long ago. This is not the public domain. You are not 'entitled' to free speech here. You play by the rules or you lose the ability to express yourself. This is not harsh, it is called controlling your environment. I for one would welcome it as it may draw me to interact with the external community far more frequently than I do now. "Salvation Awaits" - The Preacher
Xeras	Posted - 2003.08.14 19:51:00 - [30] Edited by: Xeras on 14/08/2003 19:53:13 Quote: Good post Vyper Miso: "Sharks with Freaking laser beams." I LUV your corp name... That is funny stuff.

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