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Icdevion
Coalescent Dynamics Jury Rigged Associates
0
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Posted - 2013.07.15 05:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Been thinking about this for a while, why don't they make a light carrier. An in between battleship and capitals fighter platform/ support (think of a larger Logistics) ship that is able to move into High-sec, maxes at 5 or 10 fighters (set to a number that keeps them reasonable for a highsec ship), and doesn't have jump ability (needs gates or titan bridge). Basically the idea would be a carrier about the size and maneuverability of an Orca.
Concept: As each empire cleared out the document files of old ships, they rediscovered a series of carriers that haven't been used in centuries since the discover of the jump drive. Information about these vessels was determined that they were once the Flag-ships of the empires. Compared to the carriers of today, they were smaller and more limited in abilities, but potent ships in their own right. Capable of links capable of limited controls, these were able to use up to 10 fighters, and operated as field support ships. Due to their size, no jump drive could ever be fit to them, making them only capable of utilizing the jump-bridge networks, or in more modern times, the Titan bridge.
Not a fully fleshed out idea, but hey, see if anyone likes the idea... |

DataRunner Touch
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.07.15 05:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
well we have a few problems Icdevion
Problem A: If I remember correctly, only Super carriers can field Fighters and Fighter-bombers (If that changed recently someone correct me please)
Problem B: Based on problem A, if we put in a even smaller ship that can field fighters we must give the normal carrier ability to field fighters
Problem C: Now you made many of the sub-cap drone boats quite....useless/pushed out of place. |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3640
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Posted - 2013.07.15 05:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
So... a Dominix. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |

Icdevion
Coalescent Dynamics Jury Rigged Associates
0
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Posted - 2013.07.15 05:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ruby, kinda, but bigger, more capable and all empires included. More a stepping stone for new capital pilots, and a way to bring carriers to high-sec. |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3642
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Posted - 2013.07.15 06:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Icdevion wrote:Ruby, kinda, but bigger, more capable and all empires included. More a stepping stone for new capital pilots, and a way to bring carriers to high-sec.
Datarunner - carriers use fighters, and I'm talking about this being a smaller version of a carrier. No FB, just the plan old fighters, and fewer of them.
You asked for something that can provide RR, Drone Damage, and use gates. That's a Dominix.
What you seem to actually want is some overpowered POS that has all the benefits of a Carrier and none of the disadvantages (most of the time, not being able to use gates is a significant disadvantage), and you want it on the cheap.
Now, what role do you imagine this filling that doesn't stomp and grind on the toes of specialist Logistics Cruisers, Drone Boats, and Carriers (oh my)? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |

Johann Rascali
Crunchy Crunchy Zero Hour Alliance
32
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Posted - 2013.07.15 07:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Us Incursion weenies have been praying for something to carry battleships around highsec for quite a while. Honestly, I support the idea if it actually didn't have logistical capabilities (which are well-covered and don't really need more excuse to proliferate); light fighter bays, no jump drive, and a ship maintenance array big enough to carry a battleship and two cruisers would be my dreamboat. |

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1498
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Posted - 2013.07.15 09:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Icdevion wrote:Ruby, kinda, but bigger, more capable and all empires included. More a stepping stone for new capital pilots, and a way to bring carriers to high-sec.
Datarunner - carriers use fighters, and I'm talking about this being a smaller version of a carrier. No FB, just the plan old fighters, and fewer of them.
So, a dominix with worse DPS then?
A chimera at all Vs gets 500 DPS out of five fighters. A dominix at all Vs gets 475 out of five orgre IIs without any drone mods. Add one DDAII and you're at 584. Add two, and you're at 700. Give this thing the ability to field ten drones, and you've made carriers and all smaller droneboats obsolete.
As for acting as a stepping stone, how does it do that? I am a carrier pilot. You will not learn about things you actually need to use for caps in a subcap. Capacitor management, fuel management, triage, jumping, combat refitting, cyno mechanics, things like that. Your light carrier will not teach a thing about any of those. |

Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
91
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Posted - 2013.07.15 10:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Johann Rascali wrote:Us Incursion weenies have been praying for something to carry battleships around highsec for quite a while. Honestly, I support the idea if it actually didn't have logistical capabilities (which are well-covered and don't really need more excuse to proliferate); light fighter bays, no jump drive, and a ship maintenance array big enough to carry a battleship and two cruisers would be my dreamboat.
If you want a ship that can move ships around like carriers (only no jump drive and can use gates) then support this "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3645
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Posted - 2013.07.15 10:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Job Valador wrote:Johann Rascali wrote:Us Incursion weenies have been praying for something to carry battleships around highsec for quite a while. Honestly, I support the idea if it actually didn't have logistical capabilities (which are well-covered and don't really need more excuse to proliferate); light fighter bays, no jump drive, and a ship maintenance array big enough to carry a battleship and two cruisers would be my dreamboat. If you want a ship that can move ships around like carriers (only no jump drive and can use gates) then support this
Check this bad boy out. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |

Johann Rascali
Crunchy Crunchy Zero Hour Alliance
32
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Posted - 2013.07.15 11:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Job Valador wrote:Johann Rascali wrote:Us Incursion weenies have been praying for something to carry battleships around highsec for quite a while. Honestly, I support the idea if it actually didn't have logistical capabilities (which are well-covered and don't really need more excuse to proliferate); light fighter bays, no jump drive, and a ship maintenance array big enough to carry a battleship and two cruisers would be my dreamboat. If you want a ship that can move ships around like carriers (only no jump drive and can use gates) then support this Check this bad boy out.
Incredibly slow, expensive (which may be moot depending on mini-carrier's price), cumbersome, requiring either multiple characters, a 1-man corp, or praying nobody in your corp steals your stuff, and only possible through a wonky game mechanic.
Sure, it's functional, but it'd be nice to have a dedicated platform. |
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
966
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Posted - 2013.07.15 12:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Orca is on the right spot for a capital ship with RR ability, Drones, Corp Hangar, Ship maintenance bay, ship bay, huge cargohold, huge ore hold, huge tank and can warp really fast
Light Carrier = Orca *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3650
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Posted - 2013.07.15 16:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Johann Rascali wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Job Valador wrote:Johann Rascali wrote:Us Incursion weenies have been praying for something to carry battleships around highsec for quite a while. Honestly, I support the idea if it actually didn't have logistical capabilities (which are well-covered and don't really need more excuse to proliferate); light fighter bays, no jump drive, and a ship maintenance array big enough to carry a battleship and two cruisers would be my dreamboat. If you want a ship that can move ships around like carriers (only no jump drive and can use gates) then support this Check this bad boy out. Incredibly slow, expensive (which may be moot depending on mini-carrier's price), cumbersome, requiring either multiple characters, a 1-man corp, or praying nobody in your corp steals your stuff, and only possible through a wonky game mechanic. Sure, it's functional, but it'd be nice to have a dedicated platform.
You want a platform with that capacity that's fast, cheap, and agile? Seriously? 
And I absolutely support a mechanic allowing arbitrary plastic wrapping. Something like "Select Items > Rt Click > Apply Plastic Wrap." Would make doing shopping trips so much easier. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |

XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
338
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Posted - 2013.07.15 16:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
No. |

XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
338
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Posted - 2013.07.15 16:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Want more content? Leave high sec. |

Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
96
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Posted - 2013.07.16 05:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Opps the link I posted didnt show up. I didnt mean too support this thread. I meant this one
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3344199#post3344199 "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |

Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.07.16 06:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Drone Interfacing originally allowed up to 10 drones to be deployed. This was changed because of the lag it introduces, all those drones needing to be tracked. Carriers can field a lot because there aren't many of them, compared to the total number of ships active.
Making lots of drones readily available in hisec is a recipe for disaster. |

Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
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Posted - 2013.07.16 06:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Elsbeth Taron wrote:Drone Interfacing originally allowed up to 10 drones to be deployed. This was changed because of the lag it introduces, all those drones needing to be tracked. Carriers can field a lot because there aren't many of them, compared to the total number of ships active.
Making lots of drones readily available in hisec is a recipe for disaster. This, 5 drones is more than enough. Maybe introduce some new kind of drones or add a ship that has more drone damage bonus (like rorqual) but then again domi can pull 900 dps with perfect ogres already.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Johann Rascali
Crunchy Crunchy Zero Hour Alliance
35
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Posted - 2013.07.16 06:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:You want a platform with that capacity that's fast, cheap, and agile? Seriously?
Nope. Honestly, an Orca with much smaller cargo bay and no ore hold, a larger ship bay, and no fleet boosting capabilities would be pretty much right on target. Specific capacity (ship bay instead of general cargo), probably less than a billion isk (around the price of the Orca), faster to warp than the biggest brick in highsec (i.e. Charon) but nowhere near what would be considered "agile." |

RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3663
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Posted - 2013.07.16 07:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Johann Rascali wrote:RubyPorto wrote:You want a platform with that capacity that's fast, cheap, and agile? Seriously? Nope. Honestly, an Orca with much smaller cargo bay and no ore hold, a larger ship bay, and no fleet boosting capabilities would be pretty much right on target. Specific capacity (ship bay instead of general cargo), probably less than a billion isk (around the price of the Orca), faster to warp than the biggest brick in highsec (i.e. Charon) but nowhere near what would be considered "agile."
So, Faster, cheaper, and more agile than the ship that can currently fill the function you're talking about.
Like I said, the ability to wrap plastic around items without going through an alt is all you need. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |

Ellendras Silver
Bite Me inc Bitten.
61
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Posted - 2013.07.16 07:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Icdevion wrote:Ruby, kinda, but bigger, more capable and all empires included. More a stepping stone for new capital pilots, and a way to bring carriers to high-sec.
Datarunner - carriers use fighters, and I'm talking about this being a smaller version of a carrier. No FB, just the plan old fighters, and fewer of them.
there is a reason carriers are banned from empire. its not that hard to get in carrier now ok still need considerable amount of time to fly ir properly. why do you need something between domi and carrier in empire? trouble with lvl 4s cant be it (i hope) |
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
196
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Posted - 2013.07.16 09:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:Icdevion wrote:Ruby, kinda, but bigger, more capable and all empires included. More a stepping stone for new capital pilots, and a way to bring carriers to high-sec.
Datarunner - carriers use fighters, and I'm talking about this being a smaller version of a carrier. No FB, just the plan old fighters, and fewer of them. there is a reason carriers are banned from empire. its not that hard to get in carrier now ok still need considerable amount of time to fly ir properly. why do you need something between domi and carrier in empire? trouble with lvl 4s cant be it (i hope)
they want to haul the farming bs's to incursions. BS 1 for this part of an incursion, this one for another. And they don't want to "waste time" in a freighter. As they have never left empire in many cases I don't think they know the carrying ability of a carrier makes it less than fast or agile. I felt bad one night for a carrier friend I cyno'd. I dicked up cyno location real bad. Kind of screwed him. Align to warp out and come back in too long. Crawling to where he needed to be (dock range on station) also a long time. Crawl time was shorter...still long as hell though. he made it safely...but still felt like crap. Usually much better with cyno popping.
this would be them on gates. If they don't have the instawarp on all gates on route...they will be slow as hell off of them. If they don't have the corpie/alt in a webber (I liked DD back when I had a charon...throwing webs may as well do it right, right ?lol) they are not making record times.
they also think there is something magical with fighters for pve. There isn't. Carriers sanctum and haven performance is related to tank. It can solo them more readiily because unlike a glass cannon ish mach it won't go boom as fast. Well skilled and well fit and a very nice bs is better performing overall damage wise. Its just lacking tank to sit solo in a sanctum. glass canon like machs run lv 4's fine, no reason why rattler or domi can't.
AI aggor shift blah blah....part of th reason we have this is ccp said look at all the semi afk domi farming chains people run. Drone boats ran pve too well....they aren't getting fighters in empire to bring this back. 0.0/low/wh gets them because ccp, and most roamers, love to see a carrier asleep or afk in a CA. they go boom and everyone loves 1 more dead cap in the the game. |

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
219
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Posted - 2013.07.16 12:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Orca isn't really what I'd want for this, because I am not a miner.
I would like something similar specifically for moving rigged ships that can carry my small fleet of personal ships from hub to hub as I am a nomadic missioner. A couple of each size ship is all I really need carried, and enough cargo to bring sufficient ammo and fittings to see me through a little while in case I choose to mission away from a hub for a bit.
For me it's not about incursions or any specific goal, just the ease of moving around with several ships as I usually need at least a little while in a frigate to work up standings before stepping up into larger ships for my missioning. |

Suzuka A1
Multiplex Gaming Li3 Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 19:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Icdevion wrote:Been thinking about this for a while, why don't they make a light carrier. An in between battleship and capitals fighter platform/ support (think of a larger Logistics) ship that is able to move into High-sec, maxes at 5 or 10 fighters (set to a number that keeps them reasonable for a highsec ship), and doesn't have jump ability (needs gates or titan bridge). Basically the idea would be a carrier about the size and maneuverability of an Orca.
Not a fully fleshed out idea, but hey, see if anyone likes the idea...
I think it is an interesting thought, especially if they can triage. Although, I would say 8 drones max might be best but that would be for CCP to decide.
Elsbeth Taron wrote:Drone Interfacing originally allowed up to 10 drones to be deployed. This was changed because of the lag it introduces, all those drones needing to be tracked. Carriers can field a lot because there aren't many of them, compared to the total number of ships active.
Making lots of drones readily available in hisec is a recipe for disaster.
...Have you seen a null sec fight? I always remove drones from my overview otherwise I would never be able to see anything. And in general nowadays undocking causes more problems server side (10% TiDi for several minutes when a full fleet undocks) than a massive horde of drones. Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H-á What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626 |

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
38
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Posted - 2013.07.16 21:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Drone Boats ARE NOT Light Carriers.
They are Gunships with the ability to launch a small to moderate number of drones.
A True Light Carrier would be able to launch and hold Light Fighters and Light Bombers that are basically the same the normal Carrier Fighters and Bombers except they would be faster and carry smaller payloads.
I think a Light Carrier that employs upto two corvettes and either two light fighters or light bombers or four corvettes or five light fighters or five light bombers is a much better role suited for the Light Carrier.
The role of the Light Carrier would be in essence a fleet screen against incoming fighters and bombers and other corvettes.
Corvettes are about twice the size of a fighter are slower than a fighter still smaller than a frigate but have nearly triple the weapons range and destructive power than a fighter has.
The corvette would come in the typical four damage classes along with having Web Stasis and Scrambler emitters fitted to their hulls meant to capture fighters and bombers.
Although a squad of four corvettes would not be able to scramble or web even a noob ship if a lot were encountered maybe around ten or so then the stasis and scramble effects would be permanent until the corvettes were destroyed.
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3673
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Posted - 2013.07.16 22:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
DrysonBennington wrote:Drone Boats ARE NOT Light Carriers.
They are Gunships with the ability to launch a small to moderate number of drones.
A True Light Carrier would be able to launch and hold Light Fighters and Light Bombers that are basically the same the normal Carrier Fighters and Bombers except they would be faster and carry smaller payloads.
So... Drones....
RR Domis provide RR and drone damage. Just like Carriers, but not as good as Carriers. Why do their unused turret hardpoints suddenly make them not fill that role?
Quote:I think a Light Carrier that employs upto two corvettes and either two light fighters or light bombers or four corvettes or five light fighters or five light bombers is a much better role suited for the Light Carrier.
Are you sure you're playing the same game as the rest of us?
Quote:Corvettes are about twice the size of a fighter are slower than a fighter still smaller than a frigate but have nearly triple the weapons range and destructive power than a fighter has.
Fighters are the same size as Frigates. Fighter Bombers are bigger.
Wait... you're saying that a "light Carrier" should be carrying Fighter Bombers, rather than fighters?
Quote:The corvette would come in the typical four damage classes along with having Web Stasis and Scrambler emitters fitted to their hulls meant to capture fighters and bombers.
Fighterbombers with scrams, what a fantastic idea  This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
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