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Sansha/Blood Lowsec exploration - Tengu, Legion, or Loki?

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Syn Fatelyng Dathmora Redanni 9	Posted - 2011.10.25 17:24:00 - [1] - Quote Let me start off by defensively saying: You're right, I could hop onto Sisi and test all three ships for first hand experience. Normally, I would, but let's say that I am swamped in real life and would like to narrow down variables regarding this topic before committing to a full test run. With that out of the way, I'm looking to dive back into low-sec exploration and moving into one of the three racial T3 ships that I am capable of flying. Currently, I am using the Pilgrim due to the covert ops cloaking device, dependable tank and sufficient damage output of drones. The limitation I'm finding is a severe lack of damage and tanking capability, especially when wanting to run 5/10s and 6/10s. I'm not looking for an all-in-one solution, mind you. I will be scanning down low-sec systems using the covert ops and scanning subsystem, but with combat-oriented subsystems in my cargo hold as needed. What I am looking for is the best ship for the job and how each would handle differently considering the situation I'm throwing them into: Solo work, this also means no alt scout Sansha and Bloodraider territory Low-Security systems Loki, Legion, or Tengu Assume max projectile, laser, missile, shield, and armor skills As little faction gear as possible Short-term deployment Radar, Combat, and (optional) Mag sites Assume I know a GREAT deal about the Tengu, and ****-all with the Loki and Legion My thanks in advance.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 59	Posted - 2011.10.25 19:58:00 - [2] - Quote Tengu. Simple reason: Legion and Loki can't project damage out past 60-65km, which is more or less what you need to break the 6/10 overseers.
Brynhilda Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis 58	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:01:00 - [3] - Quote In terms of running Blood Raider sites in lowsec, the Legion is superior with its DPS. Tengu has better range but less DPS while the Loki has the best tank, it suffers in range and DPS. Some faction gear will help (especially for that Blood 5/10 3rd room) but my Legion can solo any Lowsec Blood site except for the Minor Blood Annex (which is hard to solo in anything smaller than a BS. Loki may be able to do it but its simply not worth it). My Legion is rigged with a Grav Cap for scanning and 2 Cap Control Circuits. You will want... Heavy Pulse Laser II x6 Afterburner Large Cap Battery II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II, Tracking Computer II or access tools. Damage Control II Medium Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II x2 EM Hardener II Thermic Hardener II Liquid Crystal Magnifiers (Use Covert Ops Subsystem for scanning and travel) Power Core Multiplier Chassis Optimizer/Fuel Injector (Either works) Tactical Targeting Network (Use Emergent Locus Analzyer for scanning and travel) Nanobot Injector and be sure to bring multiple sets of Scorch and Navy Multifrequency. More Scorch than Multi since those pop pretty fast. Your optimal range which Scorch and a targeting computer should be around 35km. Multi should be around 10km which you should be moving from BS to BS to hit other than Harbingers and Archbishops. Stay 30km from the Harbingers and Archbishops and hit them with Scorch. They neut and a neuted Legion is a dead Legion. Certain Elite Cruisers also neut out to 40km but other than the Minor Annex and escalations, I never really see them. This Legion should be able to easily handle 4/10s, 5/10s (Very hairy, though), Annexes (You need to do them in a specific way) and 6/10. How may I drug you with drugs?
Syn Fatelyng Dathmora Redanni 9	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:01:00 - [4] - Quote I would imagine that burning at 700-800m/s to cover that distance would be trivial, and a one-time issue for the overseers on top of it the Tengu offering worse damage due to using kinetic damage against EM weak rats (thunderbolt only offers a hair more). The damage projection of a Tengu for level IVs is amazing, I'll grant you, when you have multiple groups in different directions. What is it I'm missing regarding your opinion?
Brynhilda Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis 58	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:04:00 - [5] - Quote Bah. Sure, the Tengu has superior range but when it comes to breaking the tanks of the 6/10, its going to lose out to the Legion which does much more damage. A Tengu is certainly NOT going to break the overseer's tank in the Sansha 6/10. How may I drug you with drugs?
Brynhilda Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis 58	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:06:00 - [6] - Quote The 5/10 has that last room which has web towers 40km out in 3 different directions. You can tank the rats in that room for a bit but you won't be able to tank them forever in a Legion. I've resorted to popping 2 web towers, warping out and then attacking the overseer with Scorch and bookmarking his wreck. A Tengu would be better here, really, but I don't fly Tengu. And you certainly don't need a Tengu's range to break the tanks of 6/10 Overseers. You need damage to break their tanks. Damage that a Tengu will struggle with due to reliance on kinetic missiles. How may I drug you with drugs?
Gimchi North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 0	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:15:00 - [7] - Quote Not A t3 but this worked for me. I used to run 6/10s in Delve, I found a good way of doing them was with 1 char in a cov ops, locating the sites. I would then covert cyno a Sin into system to run the plex. The Sin was fit with Rails and Curators.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 60	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:18:00 - [8] - Quote Syn Fatelyng wrote: Zhilia Mann wrote: Tengu. Simple reason: Legion and Loki can't project damage out past 60-65km, which is more or less what you need to break the 6/10 overseers. I would imagine that burning at 700-800m/s to cover that distance would be trivial, and a one-time issue for the overseers on top of it the Tengu offering worse damage due to using kinetic damage against EM weak rats (thunderbolt only offers a hair more). The damage projection of a Tengu for level IVs is amazing, I'll grant you, when you have multiple groups in different directions. What is it I'm missing regarding your opinion? If you stay that far away the overseers won't rep (or at least not nearly as hard). If you have to get under that range to apply damage you actually have to break the tank. Edit: and yes, the 5/10s are harder and the Blood Minor Annex is ridiculous.
Brynhilda Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis 58	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:34:00 - [9] - Quote Zhilia Mann wrote: Syn Fatelyng wrote: Zhilia Mann wrote: Tengu. Simple reason: Legion and Loki can't project damage out past 60-65km, which is more or less what you need to break the 6/10 overseers. I would imagine that burning at 700-800m/s to cover that distance would be trivial, and a one-time issue for the overseers on top of it the Tengu offering worse damage due to using kinetic damage against EM weak rats (thunderbolt only offers a hair more). The damage projection of a Tengu for level IVs is amazing, I'll grant you, when you have multiple groups in different directions. What is it I'm missing regarding your opinion? If you stay that far away the overseers won't rep (or at least not nearly as hard). If you have to get under that range to apply damage you actually have to break the tank. Edit: and yes, the 5/10s are harder and the Blood Minor Annex is ridiculous. Then I guess there's really nothing better than a Tengu if it can get away with it via design flaw. The only disadvantage is that you need to haul all those missiles and subsystems around while a Legion will have plenty of space. How may I drug you with drugs?
Syn Fatelyng Dathmora Redanni 9	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:37:00 - [10] - Quote Brynhilda wrote: Heavy Pulse Laser II x6 Afterburner Large Cap Battery II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II, Tracking Computer II or access tools. Damage Control II Medium Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II x2 EM Hardener II Thermic Hardener II Liquid Crystal Magnifiers (Use Covert Ops Subsystem for scanning and travel) Power Core Multiplier Chassis Optimizer/Fuel Injector (Either works) Tactical Targeting Network (Use Emergent Locus Analzyer for scanning and travel) Nanobot Injector I noticed you didn't include a webber. Do you not often encounter webbing/scrambling frigates in 4/5/6 plexes?
Brynhilda Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis 58	Posted - 2011.10.25 20:43:00 - [11] - Quote Syn Fatelyng wrote: Brynhilda wrote: Heavy Pulse Laser II x6 Afterburner Large Cap Battery II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II, Tracking Computer II or access tools. Damage Control II Medium Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II x2 EM Hardener II Thermic Hardener II Liquid Crystal Magnifiers (Use Covert Ops Subsystem for scanning and travel) Power Core Multiplier Chassis Optimizer/Fuel Injector (Either works) Tactical Targeting Network (Use Emergent Locus Analzyer for scanning and travel) Nanobot Injector I noticed you didn't include a webber. Do you not often encounter webbing/scrambling frigates in 4/5/6 plexes? None of the plexes have any elite ships. The biggest threat in any plex will be webbing towers and Corpus Archbishops/Harbingeres. Blood Annex and any escalation, however, can have them which its usually best to snipe them before they get close. How may I drug you with drugs?
Tamiya Sarossa Hedion University Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2011.10.25 22:18:00 - [12] - Quote Gonna put a plug in here for the Gila - nice damage projection, can break overseers, and has the plus side of being able to run the Minor Annex's fine. Of the three options I'd say Tengu or Legion would both do fine, legion might need more pimping.
Fireflyb1 Haven Enterprises 0	Posted - 2011.10.28 03:02:00 - [13] - Quote Brynhilda wrote: None of the plexes have any elite ships. The biggest threat in any plex will be webbing towers and Corpus Archbishops/Harbingeres. Blood Annex and any escalation, however, can have them which its usually best to snipe them before they get close. I know minor blood annex has elite crusader hulls, which web and sometimes scram... so does Annex I think.
Headerman Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx 288	Posted - 2011.10.28 03:41:00 - [14] - Quote [Loki, Sansha - Logu] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Heat Dissipation Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster 10MN Afterburner II 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Fury Heavy Missile 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Hammerhead II x4 Hobgoblin II x5 800 odd DPS with a few +4 implants, >900 DPS when heated. Tanks > 1k damage for a minute, can travel >750 m/s The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why?
Brynhilda Massive PVPness EntroPraetorian Aegis 61	Posted - 2011.10.28 04:26:00 - [15] - Quote Yeah, the Minor Annex and Annex can have them. However, Legion and Tengu won't be soloing the Blood Minor Annex due to the webbing drones being triggers and the influx of neuting and scramming ships. Loki MIGHT be able to but its not worth trying if you ask me. Annex is doable, though. How may I drug you with drugs?
Nadine Le'Slut The-Four-HorseMen 1	Posted - 2011.10.28 06:33:00 - [16] - Quote sheesh, all this rabble with the minor annex do it like me, loose two tengus (forgetting to eject) to neuting rats then just get some crystal tags the next time youre in jita, tada, instawarp to 2nd pocket. also some neuting there, but manageable. i'd recommend the tengu for any lowsec combat site, except for maybe the sansha 6/10 because of Effotber's tank. (need more confirmation on the 60km range thing) I always bring a battleship for this, also because you need to kill 30-40 BS in the rooms before. Blood 6/10 is so much easier, i can even solo the repping overseer station in a tengu, though it takes some reloads.
RGB Dragon The Ringing Vale 6	Posted - 2011.11.03 12:20:00 - [17] - Quote Nadine, what tengu fits do you use?
Ruah Piskonit PIE Inc. 40	Posted - 2011.11.04 01:15:00 - [18] - Quote Tengu is the end-all-be-all of T3.
Feilamya 8	Posted - 2011.11.20 14:06:00 - [19] - Quote All of those setups have one major flaw: They depend on refitting, which is not an option in 0.0 and even some lowsec areas. To handle this, you need to permanently fit a cov ops cloak and maybe a probe launcher as well (depends on whether or not you use an alt for probing). Here's a challenge: Show me a T3 setup (preferrably Legion) for running at least radar sites in nullsec. Here are the requirements: - No refitting - No resupply - Covert ops cloak - Codebreaker - Bonus points if it works without a probing alt
Sputter Triple Entente 0	Posted - 2011.11.20 15:54:00 - [20] - Quote If your having trouble doing 6/10s in a t3 then you setup is wrong, i've done 8/10s easily in a tengu and have seen numerous times a tengu solo a 10/10. (yes the one with the EM torp vs a shield tengu and tanked it fine). but overall tengu is the best way due to range and tank/speed tanking

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