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Selpy	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:20:00 - [1] With the RMR release coming on as a holiday present to all people of EVE. It comes with a small price, It seem's that the NPC faction's plan on striking out on the Alliances of EVE. Here is the question I put to you all. Are we ready to be eaten alive by what the dev team has in store for us? Or are we ready to put aisde all of our "Alliance Attitude's" stop fighting each other for the sake of Killmail's, and rise to this challenge, AS ONE. The 0.0 combat pilot's have been gaining experince and skill's over the past few year's. With the force of all 0.0 Alliance's forming a Mutual defence pact, WE the pilot's of 0.0 would be able to fend off anything that these dev team's could toss at us. So, that's my idea, flame me, rake me over hot coals, or send me to france :) so talk amungst yourself, think about this idea, disscuss till daniel jackson comes in and wrecks this thread :) kidding daniel And no, I'm not an alt :P
Amataras	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:29:00 - [2] it'll never happen The Eve Diplomacy Table
Antoinette Civari	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:30:00 - [3] Originally by: Selpy Or are we ready to put aisde all of our "Alliance Attitude's" stop fighting each other for the sake of Killmail's, and rise to this challenge, AS ONE. Hell no. Some maybe, but .. no.
Gunship	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:35:00 - [4] nope, don't want to. So you want to join us?
Recscue	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:38:00 - [5] Not going to happen. Corps and alliances have fought each other and have been enemies for the past few years and an intense rivalry and hatred exists.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.12.11 23:48:00 - [6] We'll take on the npc factions and our current player enemies with great relish. I tell you one thing, though, if I find a single goddamn wcs in a loot can from the faction navies I'm gonna spit my own tongue out. Originally by: Thomas Jefferson A society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither.
Nifel	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:05:00 - [7] I like the second option better. Kill our enemies, then kill the NPC factions. "We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 00:39:00 - [8] Edited by: SengH on 12/12/2005 00:40:43 Originally by: Selpy With the RMR release coming on as a holiday present to all people of EVE. It comes with a small price, It seem's that the NPC faction's plan on striking out on the Alliances of EVE. Here is the question I put to you all. Are we ready to be eaten alive by what the dev team has in store for us? Or are we ready to put aisde all of our "Alliance Attitude's" stop fighting each other for the sake of Killmail's, and rise to this challenge, AS ONE. The 0.0 combat pilot's have been gaining experince and skill's over the past few year's. With the force of all 0.0 Alliance's forming a Mutual defence pact, WE the pilot's of 0.0 would be able to fend off anything that these dev team's could toss at us. So, that's my idea, flame me, rake me over hot coals, or send me to france :) so talk amungst yourself, think about this idea, disscuss till daniel jackson comes in and wrecks this thread :) kidding daniel And no, I'm not an alt :P Interesting how the player politics match up with the NPC politics... heres the current political situation going on in the NPC world. Allies Pirate Faction Power bloc VERY INTERESTING HOW IT MATCHES Serpentis BOB (Fountain) + Angel Cartel 5 (Curse) + Intaki Syndicate OSS (Syndicate) + Thukker -V- (Great Wildlands) Amarr + Caldari Minmatar + Gallente Enemies Empire Factions vs all Pirate Factions Blood Raiders vs Amarr/Khanid Sansha vs Angel Cartel Mordus vs Everyone else Guristas vs Caldari Serpentis vs Gallente Minmatar vs Angel Cartel From running 6 mths of pirate missions this is what ive gathered so far... Unless the storyline changes majorly... I dont see any problems.
Ituralde	Posted - 2005.12.12 04:52:00 - [9] You missed the Guristas. Either ATUK or F-E with them. I'd say F-E just because we have the same color Maybe this war up in venal will have alot more of an impact than any of us predicted...
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 04:56:00 - [10] Edited by: SengH on 12/12/2005 05:01:10 Edited by: SengH on 12/12/2005 04:58:55 Guristas isnt with the serpentis/intaki/angel cartel/thukker power bloc AFAIK. Their neutral/hostile (ive gotten and angel cartel cosmos agents asking me to steal something from a guristas complex) Edit: Looking at it you'd almost think CCP planned these things Edit2: I'd stay VERY VERY far away from any angel cartel aurora events. The thought of 10 machariels calling me primary is scary.
Seleene	Posted - 2005.12.12 07:31:00 - [11] If CCP would let me declare on Mordus Legion today, I would. BRING IT! - The REAL Eve Political Map!
Mindlles	Posted - 2005.12.12 08:08:00 - [12] Me locks at selpy? Uh what,, then realise its ealier in the morning and im not awake yet! =) Tho is it really anny diffrent between alliace players and npc alliance, they all can just dissipear in some cool way from space with their ships when it get to hot? :P _____________________________________________ http://asuya.eve-killboard.net/?a=home <- Asuyas kills since 2005-08 =)
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 08:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Seleene If CCP would let me declare on Mordus Legion today, I would. BRING IT! I'd be a bit more scared if I were you. The Aurora guys could always spawn a 100 BS mob in the middle of your fleet and just say it was bc they had a Covt Ops.
Naurhir	Posted - 2005.12.12 08:46:00 - [14] I play EVE for pvp, if I wanted to bash mobs all day long i'd play WoW and be bored.
Seleene	Posted - 2005.12.12 08:51:00 - [15] Originally by: SengH Originally by: Seleene If CCP would let me declare on Mordus Legion today, I would. BRING IT! I'd be a bit more scared if I were you. The Aurora guys could always spawn a 100 BS mob in the middle of your fleet and just say it was bc they had a Covt Ops. Been there. Done that. Still, it begs the question about just how powerful is an NPC faction like this? How many tens of thousands of NPC Mordus Ravens have been chained by agent runners or NPCers? There is gameplay mechanics to prevent boredom and there is trying to maintain a beleivable storyline. Could the Legion actally sustain the loss of 10,000 battleships (1,100,000,000,000 isk) in a month? I doubt it. I'm very curious to see how CCP works the Factional Warfare system and what the ground rules are for actually affecting change. Will they give me Mordus stations and installations to blow up with my Dreads? Will doing such a thing really hurt them? Or will they simple spawn 100 NPC battleships when the MC fleet is on the verge of another victory? As I said, I'm very curious to see how this plays out. - The REAL Eve Political Map!
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2005.12.12 08:57:00 - [16] hehe sengh :P
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 08:58:00 - [17] Edited by: SengH on 12/12/2005 09:04:16 Edited by: SengH on 12/12/2005 08:59:30 Originally by: Seleene Originally by: SengH Originally by: Seleene If CCP would let me declare on Mordus Legion today, I would. BRING IT! I'd be a bit more scared if I were you. The Aurora guys could always spawn a 100 BS mob in the middle of your fleet and just say it was bc they had a Covt Ops. Been there. Done that. Still, it begs the question about just how powerful is an NPC faction like this? How many tens of thousands of NPC Mordus Ravens have been chained by agent runners or NPCers? There is gameplay mechanics to prevent boredom and there is trying to maintain a beleivable storyline. Could the Legion actally sustain the loss of 10,000 battleships (1,100,000,000,000 isk) in a month? I doubt it. I'm very curious to see how CCP works the Factional Warfare system and what the ground rules are for actually affecting change. Will they give me Mordus stations and installations to blow up with my Dreads? Will doing such a thing really hurt them? Or will they simple spawn 100 NPC battleships when the MC fleet is on the verge of another victory? As I said, I'm very curious to see how this plays out. Considering a small amarr (Edit)squadron according the prime fiction was 200 Battleships. You might have a small problem there Seleene. Edit: You better hope they dont bring stns out for you to shoot. If its anything like the battlestation ultima in the sansha complex, I can see it easily decimating half a 30 battleship fleet before you dent its shields :P
Seleene	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:12:00 - [18] I've read a lot of the prime fiction. I've also noticed a lot of disconnects. That's the problem. Just how powerful are the various NPC factions? If they are that strong, why are we even pretending that anything we do matters? Why does the EVE news report on it if we're so small and insignificant? I'd very much like to see some official clarification from CCP on this. - The REAL Eve Political Map!
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:19:00 - [19] Edited by: SengH on 12/12/2005 09:20:10 Yeah if all of the pirate fleets in jita just stopped hanging around in deadspace and locked down the 4-4 station. That would be very funny. I think the main problem with reading the prime fiction is "scale". A skirmish for the player empires would be something along the lines of the VV-V battles (for players). A battle approximately SA/CA war and a real full scale war has yet to occur (might have been the north vs south war but that diffused down quick) . Another thing to realize is that according to the fiction pod pilots are 1:10000 of the ships out there. Granted we dont see the rest of them (thank god), but they ARE there.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:22:00 - [20] "why are we even pretending that anything we do matters?" The NPC factions are huge, but are largely made up of inferior ships without pod pilots as far as I understand. Also, they have interests to protect far beyond what us outer space alliances have. Our planets arent populated, we have no milennia of history and no slow working top heavy governments. We live in the vacuum of space, while the old decrepid empires toil on the soil of their fragile planets. Sure, they could send taskforces numbering hundreds of ships. But, if they'd lose one, that would mean nearly a whole less inhabited planet in terms of lives lost. The Empires cannot risk full scale war, they can just skirmish and hope to contain us. What is at stake for them is neglible at this point, but in case of full war would fast become more then they care to. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Seleene	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:25:00 - [21] What Rod says has long been my belief as well. - The REAL Eve Political Map!
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:32:00 - [22] Edited by: SengH on 12/12/2005 09:33:02 The problem is, no matter how they cut it, the 0.0 alliances if they ally themselves with the pirate factions and aid them in territorial conquest, will begin to carve HUGE chunks out of empire space, something that the empires cannot idly stand by and do nothing about. We'll end up with a mad race of "first to jita" and the empire dwellers (those that participate), lacking the expertise will be slaughtered by the dozens. I cant believe CCP will allow that as the Angel Cartel&allies pirate bloc they created with the prime fiction vastly overpowers any other "pirate" entity both technologically (angel cartel has access to jove tech) and size wise. Furthermore they seem keen to pad the empire dwellers from the effects of 0.0 live alot.
Lag Fest	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:40:00 - [23] Always pleasure podding dev team and GMs Donno why but it turnes me on like hell _______________________________________ Fish?
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Lag Fest Always pleasure podding dev team and GMs Donno why but it turnes me on like hell I wouldnt be so sure to start shooting serpentis if I were you... esp when they already have a 35 mil hp titan(potentially with a superweapon)already in your back yard. P.S. In comparision the player titans have 180k hp (shield+armor+structure) only
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:47:00 - [25] Originally by: SengH Edited by: SengH on 12/12/2005 09:33:02 The problem is, no matter how they cut it, the 0.0 alliances if they ally themselves with the pirate factions and aid them in territorial conquest, will begin to carve HUGE chunks out of empire space, something that the empires cannot idly stand by and do nothing about. We'll end up with a mad race of "first to jita" and the empire dwellers (those that participate), lacking the expertise will be slaughtered by the dozens. I cant believe CCP will allow that as the Angel Cartel&allies pirate bloc they created with the prime fiction vastly overpowers any other "pirate" entity both technologically (angel cartel has access to jove tech) and size wise. Furthermore they seem keen to pad the empire dwellers from the effects of 0.0 live alot. Well no. As one would expect, as soon as fully inhabited territories are involved, the resolve of the empires would strengthen would it not ? I mean, when their citizens start to be threatened (which they hardly are by podpilot community antics in outer space at this time, right ?), the feeding ground for more radical action on an empire's part grows enormously. Looka t it like a state of emergency. At this time, there's nothign big going on for the empires. Would pod pilots and pirate factions start taking over their population base, and commit atrocities, then we have quite another story. I mean, how long do you think the Gallente elections would have alsted if it had been wartime instead of peacetime ? Not half as long I bet. Oh, and on a more technical note, If CCP thinks things are too one-sided, they will simply approach one or more of the stronger and larger player factions to switch sides and balance things out. They can quite easily do that, since not many factions would even think about saying no to them. If that would fail, yes, then there's always the option of throwing a few thousand npc's at a podpilot fleet and simply forcing a loss onto them. There's really very little against that tbh. I wouldn't mind CCP bringing in an event fleet that simply is too strong for BoB to handle if the storyline needs it. We can't all expect to win all the time. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 09:57:00 - [26] Key things to note... the player empires will be fighting each other at the same time... Who do you think the amarr empire will go after first? Ushra khan invading from the Hemiatar? or Curse inhabitants invading up from doril/agil. Blood raiders would push from the west. Furthermore it would be highly unlikely that midway through the war, players who are winning would choose to switch sides and have their assets locked out of all the NPC stations that they were previously defending/ conquering for. If CCP were to just say oh you'll be able to turn traitor on the faction you were fighting for and not lock you out of all their stations. That would throw any form of RP they hoped to achieve out the window. Players if they wanted to find a way could easily crush anything aurora throws at them if they really wanted to. They could force aurora to commit resources to once place. And have the invasion continue through the rest. Co-operation might not be possible, but coordination surely is.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:07:00 - [27] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 12/12/2005 10:08:49 Originally by: SengH Key things to note... the player empires will be fighting each other at the same time... Who do you think the amarr empire will go after first? Ushra khan invading from the Hemiatar? or Curse inhabitants invading up from doril/agil. Blood raiders would push from the west. Furthermore it would be highly unlikely that midway through the war, players who are winning would choose to switch sides and have their assets locked out of all the NPC stations that they were previously defending/ conquering for. If CCP were to just say oh you'll be able to turn traitor on the faction you were fighting for and not lock you out of all their stations. That would throw any form of RP they hoped to achieve out the window. Players if they wanted to find a way could easily crush anything aurora throws at them if they really wanted to. They could force aurora to commit resources to once place. And have the invasion continue through the rest. Co-operation might not be possible, but coordination surely is. I think you are reading way too much into the factional warfare thing. Ther wont be six player factions attacking the amarr empire from all sides and taking their territory. There won't be people locked out of stations unless they actively aprticipate into warfare against that particular faction/npc corp, and no, I'm gonna hazard a guess and say it wont make perfect sense out of rp perspective either. As to CCP approaching player factions to switch sides. Easily done, oveur convo's SirMolle, and asks him to put BoB on teh side of the amarr empire. Both talk abit and agree on a storyline that would allow us to side with a sarum pretender to the throne or something, and change sides from blood raiders to amarr empire. BoB does, et voila, problem largely solved. We play this game for fun, winning all the time isn't always fun, and anyway, we won already. Maybe we'd have to move some of our assets, big deal. Knowing thsi stuff can happen si reason enough to make sure we are using neural stations in any conflict, so we can't get locked out. As long as the parameters are known beforehand, we can prepare. Remember, this si not going to be like turning parts of empires into conquerable territory overnight... It will probably be selective systems, a few at a time, under tight CCP control. I mean, these issues you point out are so obvious CCP must have thought about them months ago. They'll control it, or twist things so that these problems wont happen. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Faust Revis	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:15:00 - [28] no sweat, things will continue as they have. Npc's pose ZERO threat. If they become a threat to anyone then they need more experience or let someone else handle it. Mordu's are supposedly going to put imperium down...yea right. Also with all the other events and promises that are being spread around and stacked all over the place wont happen. Them ost well see will be the monthly even in some region. big whoop-dee-doo there. When it comes to npc factions doing anything of great effect to the 0.0 alliance, there will be nothing. So it can be forgotten and we can continue to wage war with each other as we have been these many years (masny depending your eve game time experience)
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:19:00 - [29] Edited by: SengH on 12/12/2005 10:21:46 The thing is when they twist it.. it goes from being "dynamic content" thats based around the decision of players. To static scripted content... is that what their aiming for? Because then that runs counter to their core game philosophy. Thats the line they have to draw. Allowing players to change the universe, but not allowing them to change it to affect a certain playerbase? Slight paradox here? Originally by: Faust Revis no sweat, things will continue as they have. Npc's pose ZERO threat. If they become a threat to anyone then they need more experience or let someone else handle it. Mordu's are supposedly going to put imperium down...yea right. Also with all the other events and promises that are being spread around and stacked all over the place wont happen. Them ost well see will be the monthly even in some region. big whoop-dee-doo there. When it comes to npc factions doing anything of great effect to the 0.0 alliance, there will be nothing. So it can be forgotten and we can continue to wage war with each other as we have been these many years (masny depending your eve game time experience) That was before.... Oveur after the guristas event said the gloves are off and he has no problem now with allowing Aurora to blob us with tons of NPCs...
SengH	Posted - 2005.12.12 10:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Rod Blaine Yes, slight paradox yes. So ? They want players to affect NPC empires and factions and v.v., it's the only way in which to improve the way in which playermade storylines intertwine with background and event. Which ahs been CCP's aim from the beginning: to create ways for us to create content, instead of them creating the content and us merely playing it out. But, of course they can't afford to not pose limits to what we can do. True... what interests me the most is how the new capital ships will play into factional warfare. Especially considering the only people who are able to build them will be 0.0 folks. Whether or not the'll be allowed into empire to pursue the conquest will be interesting... Now that you mention it if any one empire gets too overpowered, CCP will just play the Jove card and BBQ that faction back down to size.....

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