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Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.01.22 23:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Myxx wrote:
Re-educated, or forced to cope or leave/die.
Hmmm, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Powers That Be would not agree with that 'leave' part.
I don't know what the population of genuine dyed in the wool carebears to the rest of the population is...and by that I mean the people who would leave if PvP was crammed down their throats beyond the current hisec gank-death risks...but I'm going to bet that the number is more than big enough to ensure that no one in a management position at CCP would ever say "Hey, Myxx sure has it right, screw those carebears that don't want more risk...we'll just tell 'em all to leave if they don't like this!"
And they would be right not to.
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Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 00:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Xorv wrote:
(SNIP)
There's nothing in this for the "carebears" (consensual PvP only and high reward PvE types), but I think you agree they have no rightful place in a Sandbox MMORPG in the first place.
Why?
Why is it that players of one playstyle feel they can dictate the playstyle of a different group of people, especially in a sandbox? No rightful place? Unless your name's on the door of the corner office at CCP I don't think you get to decide that a large number of paying customers don't belong here. Of course, it might just be that you don't really know what the term 'sandbox' means...in which case carry on.
The game is not a themeparked sandbox that takes a new player by the hand initially through risk-free PvE then forces progression into higher risk activities. It's simply not designed that way. It could have been, but it wasn't. In a sandbox the players make the game...or games...from within a framework implemented by the devs. That one of the developments within this sandbox has been the rise of a carebear culture is not a bad thing in and of itself...that's what happens in sandboxes; a framework is developed and players make of it what they choose to.
The OP is on the right track by incentivizing higher risk activities as a way to draw people into them without penalizing those who choose not to. I would disagree with the piece that penalizes industrialists in hisec by lowering their margins unless they move to lower sec systems, but overall it's a good starting point for discussion. |
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 16:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hiply Rustic wrote:
I would disagree with the piece that penalizes industrialists in hisec by lowering their margins unless they move to lower sec systems, but overall it's a good starting point for discussion.
How about If I modify that idea as follows: (1) Change it to a 1% refining, PE and ME bonus for every decrease in sec from 1.0 to 0.0, to reward the move to higher risk space (2) Add 10% to the raw component costs of every BPO, in order to boost mineral demand
Now I think it's the right direction. Incentives to move vs penalties for not moving make much more sense to me, Malcanis. The process has to be one of giving people a positive reason to move, not a policy of penalties relative to the current state of affairs for staying put in order to be successful, imo. |
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 22:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hiply Rustic wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hiply Rustic wrote:
I would disagree with the piece that penalizes industrialists in hisec by lowering their margins unless they move to lower sec systems, but overall it's a good starting point for discussion.
How about If I modify that idea as follows: (1) Change it to a 1% refining, PE and ME bonus for every decrease in sec from 1.0 to 0.0, to reward the move to higher risk space (2) Add 10% to the raw component costs of every BPO, in order to boost mineral demand Now I think it's the right direction... Heh. It's exactly the same proposal, except that it's worded differently.
No, not unless you think "giving more to people who do X" and "taking away from people who don't do X" are the same thing. I am just going to operate under the assumption that you're smarter than that. Reward for desired action =/= penalty for not performing desired action.
In the former case, people who don't change are in the same boat tomorrow that they are in today while people who do change are in a shinier boat. One approach is guaranteed to **** off people who choose the status quo while the other will only **** off some of them. |
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 18:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:On a side note, I suggest you get used to doing this kind of analysis, because people who make the mistake you made are the exact reason that our RL politics are dominated by corrupt lying weasels. A politician who offers a 10% rise in wage levels at the cost of a 10 percentile rise in the level of taxation isn't as much your friend as the first part of the proposal makes it seem.
Actually Malcanis, depending on where those tax dollars go he may indeed be my friend.
Carrots>sticks when one is discussing attempted changes in behaviour in a place where no one has to be. And at the very least, the illusion of a carrot will always beat an obvious stick in that scenario. |
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 18:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hiply Rustic wrote:Malcanis wrote:On a side note, I suggest you get used to doing this kind of analysis, because people who make the mistake you made are the exact reason that our RL politics are dominated by corrupt lying weasels. A politician who offers a 10% rise in wage levels at the cost of a 10 percentile rise in the level of taxation isn't as much your friend as the first part of the proposal makes it seem. Actually Malcanis, depending on where those tax dollars go he may indeed be my friend. Carrots>sticks when one is discussing attempted changes in behaviour in a place where no one has to be. And at the very least, the illusion of a carrot will always beat an obvious stick in that scenario. Actually Hiply, depending on where those carrots go.... 
Actually Mal...depending on who's on the receiving end...perhaps it should be cucumbers?  |
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