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Ominus Decre
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Posted - 2005.12.14 03:20:00 -
[1]
Let's cut the chase!
I've been using a PNY made nVIDIA GeForce4 ti4200 128mb agp8 for close to three years now. All I can say about this ole gfx card is r0xorz!! Hell yeah, this was a great frigg'n buy at $175.xx USD three years ago.
Ok, this card obviously performed...performed VERY well and above my expections.
But...I was begining to take a serious hits on being removed from game play on the newer titles. 
Summarized comparrison with DOOM 3 :
getting around 35 fps with graphics tuned to point it's well above the min but now where close to 75%. Can drop down to 2-5 fps in extremes but not normal. (last played with 2x256mb dualChannel ddr 400mhz*paid something like $65.xx USD per stick around 2 years ago) Either way...game lacks replay value and haven't touched it since a week after launch.
Comparing my game play to EVE Online (I'm a newb less then 5 days in) let's get a fair "glimpse" at what experiance I was getting with that old ti4200:
F'n unblieavabally swEEt!!! Never had I dropped down to below 35 fps with the ti4200 set to it's full capabilities! (note: also using 2x 1gb dual channel ddr 400mhz *paid $95.xx per stick 5 months ago )
PRESENT TENSE!!
Ok, I just picked up a ATI x850pro 256mb agp gfx card! WEll...I'm even more excited 'cs I paid $200.xx USD for it!! (i think that's frigg'n chEAp!)
I'm drop'n this baby in now and I've had less issues instaling it then my old G4 ti4200 (but that card fckn rocked!)
So...I ask all you gamerz out there to voice an opinion or an expression while none of the "neener neener ati pwns joo! " or the like. :P
What gfx card are you using and had you switched recently and from what to what, if this was done while playing EVE could you share the experiance it made with this game?  :)
box:
xpPRO
p4 2.8 (prescott)
gigabyte i865pe
2x 1gb dc DDR 400mhz/pc3200
2x 80gb SEAGATE 7.2rpm (raid+0)
1x 40gb generic (3gb pagefile)
NEW: ATI x850pro 256mb 2.0ns agp
I'm happy!!
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Darpz
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Posted - 2005.12.14 03:32:00 -
[2]
in the current line up ATI is beat by nvidia at every price point, might change as the new midrange lineups are going to be comming early next year. all of the below assume PCI-e
6600 makes a great lowend card and if you get it with Gddr3 it overclocks like snot.
6800GS is a great midrange card
7800GT good highend performance that doesn't break the bank
7800GTX 512mb for the people who just have to have the fastest thing avail
 Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Darpz
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
CCP will nerf this probably, but hey, worth a try 
so your saying I should of kept my mouth shut?
Yup.
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Ominus Decre
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Posted - 2005.12.14 05:36:00 -
[3]
Hmm...at a glance I either got a bad ATI card or something is wrong with the driver installation. My belief it it's going to be the card though. :(
Running Catalyst the animations is "spiky" !!!
Well, the card seemed to work ok for about 30 monites then it went to ****. Not sure if it went thermal but I'm thinking with the crappy stock cooling features ATI providing that it's a justified assumption.
Back to the ti4200...
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.12.14 09:19:00 -
[4]
ATM ATI have nVidia by the balls, the x1800 XT is the best card available atm, but i hear nVidia have a card up thier sleeves.
Either way my x1800 XT will serve me well, when i find the ú400 to get it 
Free Websites |
Asestorian
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:00:00 -
[5]
Currently, which graphics card you choose depends only on which manufacturer you like more personally. They both have good cards, I will be getting an X1800XT myself though.
As for the spikeyness.. that will be artifacts or something, which is most likely to do with heat. I personally haven't had a problem with my current X800XT, which I have had for coming up to a year now though.
It's quite easy to replace the cooler anyway, and it may mean you can get a bit more out of it by doing some mild overclocking if you are into that kinda thing.
I Make Sigs
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:03:00 -
[6]
There hasn't been a sure win for either ATI or nVidia since the FX series (where nVidia lost horribly).
They're so close to equal at the moment that all the fanboys should go stab themselves.
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Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:11:00 -
[7]
^ aye, what he just said
Free Websites |
Kilosher Silgen
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Darpz
6600 makes a great lowend card and if you get it with Gddr3 it overclocks like snot.
What in tarnation does that mean? Overclocks like snot...
I've never tried overclocking it before only when I have a cold
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Virida
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Posted - 2005.12.14 11:58:00 -
[9]
I prefer an NVIDIA, since ive had so much crap and trouble with ati lately. It isnt the card who malfuncion, but (non eve) games who dont run well, especially higher effects as shader model 2,0 and 3.0 games seem to have limited compability 
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wierchas noobhunter
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Posted - 2005.12.14 13:43:00 -
[10]
amd athlon xp 1700+
384 cd-ram 133
ge-froce ti4 4600
20 gb hard drive
yeah i am happy
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Princess Beefcurtains
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Posted - 2005.12.14 14:08:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Princess Beefcurtains on 14/12/2005 14:11:02
Well, having been skint for a while, my setup hasn't changed much in quite a while, although I did buy a cheap replacement card this week as my FX 5600 was constantly making snoring noises which where ****ing me off (switched to a 6200 for ú45). However, I've had no problemns playing any game yet, even new titles...
Here is my faithful setup:
AMD XP 2600+
1GB Mem
Geforce 6200 128mb AGP(bought to replace FX 5600 256mb, slight improvement in gfx and speed noticed after exchange) Running 2 x 18in acer AL801 TFTs off it
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS: Running 1 x 5.1 and 1 x 4.1 surround sound system with upmix to make it 9.2 
120GB and 160GB HDDs (with about total 11GB left  ) + 80GB HDD idle
Cheap recent replacement case = Thermaltake Soprano (ú45 Great value)
+ of course all the usual gizmos: DVD+-RW, CDRW, DVD ROM, multi card reader, TV card, floppy etc etc
Click here to find weapons of mass destruction |
Lok Ta'car
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Posted - 2005.12.14 14:16:00 -
[12]
I have an ASUS laptop, friggin sweet thing. Its got a 128MB ATI Mobility Radeon x800. I have never seen lag since I got it. I used to run EVE on a crappy ol' 16MB card so this is a BIG jump but still this card rocks even tho it "only" has 128MB. The FPS rate in eve ATM is between 80 and 50.. depends on what i do.
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KingsGambit
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Posted - 2005.12.14 14:18:00 -
[13]
Ever since m first ATI GFX card in an AMD based PC, which admittedly wasn't the greatest I kind of steer clear of them now. AMD used to be as good as Intel CPUs and cost a lot less...now they cost the same or more and are confusingly named. I don't know their overclocking potential anymore, but AMDs have always run extremely hot.
I built a new system a couple of months ago with an Intel P4 3.2GHz CPU (2MB L2 cache) and 1GB dual channal DDR2 (3-3-3-8). I can run it at 3.6GHz stable. For the GFX card I went all out and picked up a BFG 7800GTX, which I believe is still the King of GFX cards, possibly barring what I've heard about ATis new XT1800 chipset. It runs everything I've thrown at it with all bells & whistles enabled and maxed 
It replaces my old 2.4GHz P4 (running at 2.7GHz) PC with my GeForce Ti4600, the best pre-AGP8x & DX9 GFX card. That card performed admirrably for several years, and has more or less gone 3 generations before I got a new one. I remember Deus X2 was the first game I had to start running with less than maxed settings, and it wasn't capable of playing "Far Cry" at all.
The X850 is a lovely card, and a good investment, should see you gaming for years to come
-------------
My T2 Shop |
Asestorian
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Posted - 2005.12.14 14:56:00 -
[14]
On your comment about AMD and heat. Its the wrong way round, P4's have always run much much hotter than AMD cpu's, this is shown all over the web so don't start telling me i'm wrong 
I Make Sigs
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.12.14 16:12:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lord Aradon on 14/12/2005 16:14:10
Originally by: Asestorian
On your comment about AMD and heat. Its the wrong way round, P4's have always run much much hotter than AMD cpu's, this is shown all over the web so don't start telling me i'm wrong
oh dear my friend you are so badly wrong that it is hilarious, actually you are so wrong it ISN'T funny, just sad.....
PROOF
Free Websites |
Asestorian
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Posted - 2005.12.14 16:15:00 -
[16]
All that proves is that the P4 at that time had a system to slow the CPU in case that happened, where as the AMD one did not..
I Make Sigs
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Lord Aradon
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Posted - 2005.12.14 16:19:00 -
[17]
and still he defends the AMD, mate i love the AMD so im not knocking it, but even my 13 year old brother knows AMD's run hotter than Intels
Free Websites |
Eskiban Vlasic
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Posted - 2005.12.14 16:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lord Aradon
and still he defends the AMD, mate i love the AMD so im not knocking it, but even my 13 year old brother knows AMD's run hotter than Intels
Yeah....several years ago.
Do some research. It isn't the case anymore.
And on the topic at hand, I'll consider ATi again when they actually figure out how to write drivers. This has always been their weakness. superior hardware mated with drivers written by monkeys.
- Vlasic of TW Fame
TribalWar, INC
Sister corp to FREE Explorer |
Zaris
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Posted - 2005.12.14 17:24:00 -
[19]
I use a BFG 6800GT OC(NVIDIA)...I've had it for approx 7 months & I love it. I like BFG brand for a couple reasons: lifetime warranty and 24 hour 7 day toll free phone tech support. Also, BFG offers overclock models(OC) such as the one I have.
"Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else." -Will Rogers |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.14 17:30:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 14/12/2005 17:30:43
Um, dude, welcome to 5 years ago.
AMDs have produced less heat than Pentium 4s for about 3-4 years. Recently, the latest P4s went right off the deep end, nearly doubling the heat output of AMD chips.
The Athlon (pre-XP) was the last hot AMD chip. Modern P4s run at 75-80C, and A64s run at 45-50C. The Pentium 3s were much cooler than the original Athlon K7s, but that isn't even this millenium.
Stop being a fanboy.
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Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Xrak
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Posted - 2005.12.14 17:32:00 -
[21]
Some badly outdated people in here.
AMD has been cooler then p4 since about the palmino "room heater" cores (eg the 2200+)
AMD also has a very good naming system
Type - performance rating
Eg Athlon64 3500+
The different types are:
Sempron - Budget cpu's. Used to be the old athlons but turning into 64bit now aswell
Athlon64 - AMD's main desktop chip, 64bit ranges from 3000+ -> 3700+
FX - AMD's high performance gaming cpu's. eg FX-53, FX-57
X2 - AMD's new dual core cpu's eg X2 4400+
Opteron - AMD's server cpu's.
Simple easy naming system. I havent got a clue how the Intel one works since more Mhz isnt always better.
ATI vs Nvidia.
Nvidia's 5 series absolutly sucked ass, they even made a video taking the **** outta them selves. At the same time ATI brought a very good card the 9700. Whilst at the end of that generation of cards Nvidia had managed to claw some of its performance back on the 5950, ATI easily won that gen.
Nvidia's 6 series was good, very good. ATI's new series wasnt as good overall. The top 2 cards (x800 XT PE vs 6800 Ultra) were pretty much the same (ATI slightly slower overall), but below that Nvidia stole the show. The 6600 beat the x600 and the 6200 beat the x300. Even when ATI brought out the x700 the 6600gt was still better. Nvidia having the upperhand didnt change much of the range here. ATI were busy trying to come back. The new x850 XT was enough to beat the 6800Ultra, and the new x800XL beat its price opponents. Other new cards that have been brought out are the x800GTO, which is a good budget card around about the same as the 6600GT. Nvidia stopped making the 6800Ultra when the new 7 series came out. They have also stopped making the 6800GT now and replace it with a 6800GS (not SLI compatabile with the 6800GT).
Both companies had trouble with supplies for the high end cards, the XT PE was near impossible to get hold of for a while, and the Ultra not much easier.
Nvidia's brought out its 7 series cards a few months back. (While imo its not a proper generation as only 3 cards have been released not a full budget -> top performance range). It brought out its 7800GTX which easily beat anything from anywhere. It later brought out its 7800GT, which is slower. (I cant remember how it compares vs x850xt). ATI had no proper answer till about last week when it finally managed to get its x1800xt shipped (after months of speculation about it and alot of production and copyright problems).
ATI's new range is similar to the old one. x1300, x1600, x1800. The new x1800xt beats the 7800GTX 256mb card. And here is where Nvidia have gone into the stupid naming system. They brought out the 7800GTX 512mb card, which is NOT the same card as the 256mb version but with extra memory, it is a faster card. I dont know why Nvidia have done this, maybe to get people to think more ram = faster card (which isnt the case except here where its not actually the same card)
Atm performance wise the top few are:
1. 7800GTX 512mb
2. x1800XT
3. 7800GTX 256
4/5 7800GT/x1800XL (not sure which way round)
This also the list of most -> least expensive cards
After the shambles of availability problems on the Ultra, x800XTPE , Nvidia made a smart move and had plenty of 7800GTX 256mb ready to sell when it was ready. ATI have also got plenty of x1800xt's now it is finally out. However, Nvidia appear to have gone backwards again and is having trouble with the 7800GTX 512mb cards shipping, which in the run up to xmas isnt good.
Finally the new generations are due out in Jan, the R580 core from ATI, and the G71 from Nvidia.
Sorry if bits are wrong, I have just written this off the top of my head, and it has to be the longest post I've ever written.
Stolen, lovingly, from Tekka.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.14 17:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lord Aradon
Edited by: Lord Aradon on 14/12/2005 16:14:10
Originally by: Asestorian
On your comment about AMD and heat. Its the wrong way round, P4's have always run much much hotter than AMD cpu's, this is shown all over the web so don't start telling me i'm wrong
oh dear my friend you are so badly wrong that it is hilarious, actually you are so wrong it ISN'T funny, just sad.....
PROOF
For your info, that was caused by the fact that the original Athlon (6 years ago) did not have an autoshutoff feature.
Those are modern numbers
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Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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System God
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Posted - 2005.12.14 17:56:00 -
[23]
i always hated ati , me and my friend always fought over it , for a while ATI had the best cards out there for a long while , but i still would not use them once the 6600 and the 6800's started coming out then the 7800's nvidia took back the market. even if ati had better vid card i always pref the gforce ones due to there just more of a simple program to use that comes with it , i have 2 6600gt's running and duel moniters there program and simple setup of it took me less then 5 mins , my friend on the other hand who is running a ati x800. it took me well over 2 hours to set it up . and i thought i burned the video card out for a little while haha. but i just like nvidia casue its just a simple product to use. and a damn good price on cards
.
**** CCP and there sig sizes |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.14 17:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: System God
i always hated ati , me and my friend always fought over it , for a while ATI had the best cards out there for a long while , but i still would not use them once the 6600 and the 6800's started coming out then the 7800's nvidia took back the market. even if ati had better vid card i always pref the gforce ones due to there just more of a simple program to use that comes with it , i have 2 6600gt's running and duel moniters there program and simple setup of it took me less then 5 mins , my friend on the other hand who is running a ati x800. it took me well over 2 hours to set it up . and i thought i burned the video card out for a little while haha. but i just like nvidia casue its just a simple product to use. and a damn good price on cards
I've always found them equally easy to use. However, nVidia has two advantages for me:
1) Works well on linux (ATI linux drivers are almost as bad as having none at all).
2) Has a built-in Always-On-Top feature and better dual monitor support.
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Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Xrak
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Posted - 2005.12.14 18:03:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Xrak on 14/12/2005 18:04:53
Seriously, how hard is it to setup a gfx card???
1. Uninstall ALL video drivers
2. Remove old card
3. Insert new card
4. Install latest drivers
Done
Dunno about Nvidia, but ATI has good drivers, and they come once every month for sure. EDIT : For the important OS's anyway
Stolen, lovingly, from Tekka.
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Ominus Decre
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Posted - 2005.12.14 19:42:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ominus Decre on 14/12/2005 19:47:04
Edited by: Ominus Decre on 14/12/2005 19:44:36
Update on the installation of my new x850pro:
ARTIFACTS GALORE !!!
Man, I even get artifacts at post! Running dxdiag and testing the draw gets some terrible results. The spinning box is a mess! It looks as if it's displaying all positions at the same time...almost like it's from a scene in "Jacob's Ladder".
When this card sht out on me I was parked in a hangar/station. The lighting effects were passing over the ship which after about 5 minutes I started seeing graphical draw errors. The x850pro no longer runs stable without artifacts.
Not only do I get artifacts at post but they also appear on any display regardless of the activity. Using ATI tools it's unable to locate a stable setting.
I dropped my ti4200 128mb (this is the agp8 version and it rocks!) and things are back to normal. I'm going to give one more shot at a reinstall to see if it's a driver related issue then I'll be contacting ATI directly for a replacement. (crossing my fingures I can get this working)
Oh...incase anyon is curious: I cranked of the aa/af settings on the x850pro when installing it. It worked great right up till the lighting effects in the hangar/station which then caused the gfx card to go thermal!!!
CCP, if you read this you need to turn off those lighting effects by default. Players need to toggle them on and off while they should be off unless users decide otherwise.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.12.14 20:09:00 -
[27]
It sounds more like you did something wrong, or you have a bad card.
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Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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Asestorian
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Posted - 2005.12.14 20:37:00 -
[28]
Yeah sounds like the card could be bad..
Also check to see if the cooler is on it properly?
I Make Sigs
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Ominus Decre
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Posted - 2005.12.14 21:12:00 -
[29]
History:
Attempted to install while in safemode to prevent any possible conflict with antivirus software. I was getting an error message relating to AGP VGA drivers not being installed. I then rebooted into the standard mode and decided to hit the internet to see if there's info on this.
While browsing I started the installation process (anti viril turned off) out of curosity. Bingo! It loaded without error and went through teh completre installation process.
I rebooted the system and upon post everything appeared fine. I did a test through the catalyst and every was looking good. I loaded ATItools (did _not_ OC!) and again, everything looked good with a temp around 30 c at idle.
I loaded into EVE and played a few missions without any hitch. Upon docking at the station I was looking over various outfits for my Destroyer and after 5-10 minutes noticed things seemed like they were starting to have draw issues.
After I noticed the first glicth it progressivly became worse. Within about 20 seconds it went from one flicker ever 1-2 seconds upto a constant stream of flickering! Again, this ran awesome outside of the station.
I'm _not_ pointing fingures and am only attmping to find what could have gone wrong.
The obvious to me is:
HEAT - the stock cooler on the ATI cards are cheap! There's no heat sinks or spreaders on the RAM chips.
Question: What caused this to overheat when normal use was operating fine? Well...I have seen _MANY_ reports of gfx cards going thermal while docked in a station and that the lighting is causing extreme issues with some gfx cards.
This doesn't say EVE caused this. It says that the stock cooler on the ATI x850pro is garbage!!
I believe the artifacts I see at POST are now due to the RAM getting cooked! :(
OK, let's see if I can swap this card with one from BESTBUY and get a good aftermarket ZALMAN...
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Teedo
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Posted - 2005.12.14 21:14:00 -
[30]
ATI cards are notorious for having wonderful video card architecture, but crappy driver sets. You have to be careful in loading up drivers with them, and their uninstall can get ugly.
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