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Large Collidable Object
morons.
2157
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 00:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
No - eve isn't dying yet again.
However, Dust has proven to be a total failure as predicted.
Current ship rebalance focuses solely around absolute beginners, as anything requiring more than 10m is nerfbatted into the ground compared to T1 frigs and cruisers in an attempt to make generations of old players quit so isk is removed from the economy.
I personally absolutely support Eve as I think that Eve is the only true MMO due to being single-sharded and having a mostly player driven economy, but recent balance passes are insulting to older players to say the least.
Is that contributed to Dust failing or is Eve itself failing due to bad balancing decisions related to Dusts failing?
Discuss.
And yes, in case you're mentally challenged, of course it's me failing and you should apply to my corp for that conclusion. You know... morons. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2875
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 00:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:
And yes, in case you're mentally challenged, of course it's me failing and you should apply to my corp for that conclusion.
If I wasn't already the CEO of the best corp in EVE, I would totally apply to yours.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
190
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 00:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
People find change insulting? Isn't one of the primary tenets of this game Adapt of Die? Personally I love change, it forces people to think in different ways and expand their views both in-game and (indirectly) in RL. I can't stand stagnant conservatives who oppose change simply because it causes them to have to use their brains once in a while. |
Ellendras Silver
The Scope Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 01:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:No - eve isn't dying yet again. Current ship rebalance focuses solely around absolute beginners, as anything requiring more than 10m is nerfbatted into the ground compared to T1 frigs and cruisers in an attempt to make generations of old players quit so isk is removed from the economy.
I personally absolutely support Eve as I think that Eve is the only true MMO due to being single-sharded and having a mostly player driven economy, but recent balance passes are insulting to older players to say the least.
so what is so bad about the rebalancing? because i am well not a very old player 2,5 years almost but defo not new and i am pretty content with rebalancing so far. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
2157
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 01:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Setaceous wrote:People find change insulting? Isn't one of the primary tenets of this game Adapt of Die? Personally I love change, it forces people to think in different ways and expand their views both in-game and (indirectly) in RL. I can't stand stagnant conservatives who oppose change simply because it causes them to have to use their brains once in a while.
Umm - yes - I've actually anticipated higher SP chacaters being mostly useless for a while, so I created a nub alt (as CCP would expect from me) until using a high SP character would be useful again.
Unfortunately, after current balance passes I decided that using 2 characters having all BS V and all HACs V weren't worth it compared to said noob alt and even training that into any T2 except maybe bombers isn't worth it atm.
[sarcasm]Maybe they'll make Recons good enough to fly them at V again.[/sarcasm] You know... morons. |
ACE McFACE
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve
1422
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 01:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
High SP characters aren't forced into using caps. You too can fly a crusier or frigate. You should be notified if someone quotes your post so you can continue the argument! |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
2157
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 01:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote: so what is so bad about the rebalancing? because i am well not a very old player 2,5 years almost but defo not new and i am pretty content with rebalancing so far.
Well - I have characters at 140, 110 and 40 mill SP - can't see a use for the higher 2 because a T1 frig or cruiser performs plainly on par with their T2 counterparts for a fraction of the price, BS outside blobs are downright rubbish and HAC rebalance plans are distilled bukkake.
Can't see what I use the old chars for, can't see anything I want to train the new one into. You know... morons. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1165
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 01:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
in before the loch? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost |
Ellendras Silver
The Scope Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 01:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote: so what is so bad about the rebalancing? because i am well not a very old player 2,5 years almost but defo not new and i am pretty content with rebalancing so far.
Well - I have characters at 140, 110 and 40 mill SP - can't see a use for the higher 2 because a T1 frig or cruiser performs plainly on par with their T2 counterparts for a fraction of the price, BS outside blobs are downright rubbish and HAC rebalance plans are distilled bukkake. Can't see what I use the old chars for, can't see anything I want to train the new one into.
right i see... there is only one possible solution... give me the 110 mil and 140 mil SP toons, dont worry i wont charge you for this service |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
190
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 01:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote: so what is so bad about the rebalancing? because i am well not a very old player 2,5 years almost but defo not new and i am pretty content with rebalancing so far.
Well - I have characters at 140, 110 and 40 mill SP - can't see a use for the higher 2 because a T1 frig or cruiser performs plainly on par with their T2 counterparts for a fraction of the price, BS outside blobs are downright rubbish and HAC rebalance plans are distilled bukkake. Can't see what I use the old chars for, can't see anything I want to train the new one into. Except the higher SP characters would be able to load out the T1 frigate better (much better) than a newbie character. Unless those high SP ones are missing basic skills in favour of getting into more advanced ships. I also dislike people that do that, what a huge waste of time. |
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3070
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 01:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote: HAC rebalance plans are distilled bukkake.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
190
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 02:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote: HAC rebalance plans are distilled bukkake. If it's alcoholic, someone will still drink it. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome A T O N E M E N T
488
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 02:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
The OP is right.
Some T1 ships have been buffed way too far. The Incursis and Vexor tanking abilities are over the top now. Nothing of equivalent size and Tier can 1v1 some of the fits going around now for those ships.
The ancillary repper modules were not properly taken into account with the Tiercide changes and have almost broken the game.
And Dust should have been great but CCP just keep pushing people away from it.
Apart from the poor decision to make it console based (Hope they fired the moron who came up with that genius idea) - Most people who dumped all their SP into a particular fit were screwed over in a patch a few weeks ago forcing them to stop playing while the passive SP catches up to allow their fits again. Or They could grind to the SP cap for 3 weeks to get the SP but no one with 1/2 a brain would grind for stuff they could already previously use in a console FPS.
It seems that it was an attempt/scam to get people to buy the SP boosters that backfired on CCP and rightly so.
Most like myself found their entire fits in dust to now be no longer usable. I just stopped playing Dust at that point and I am an eve player used to CCP's poor judgement and lack of understanding of their own player base. Imagine how the console kiddies would have felt logging in to find their suits and fits useless.
I have no urge to return to Dust. It is pointless trying to progress in it when you might have that progress taken away in a patch. Dust had potential but deserves to die just for not being what it was advertised as - there is no link between the games except the orbital strike mechanic which is not interesting in any way. Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome A T O N E M E N T
488
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 02:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Setaceous wrote: Except the higher SP characters would be able to load out the T1 frigate better (much better) than a newbie character. Unless those high SP ones are missing basic skills in favour of getting into more advanced ships. I also dislike people that do that, what a huge waste of time.
Once you have Frig 5 - T2 guns, tank and support skills what else is there?
So after maybe 10mil sp what advantage is there to the players who invested isk into better ships/fits if T1 ships are now better than faction ships (Frigates are a great example) ?
The high sp players don't 'magically' have Frigates trained to 11.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
190
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 02:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Setaceous wrote: Except the higher SP characters would be able to load out the T1 frigate better (much better) than a newbie character. Unless those high SP ones are missing basic skills in favour of getting into more advanced ships. I also dislike people that do that, what a huge waste of time.
Once you have Frig 5 - T2 guns, tank and support skills what else is there? So after maybe 10mil sp what advantage is there to the players who invested isk into better ships/fits if T1 ships are now better than faction ships (Frigates are a great example) ? The high sp players don't 'magically' have Frigates trained to 11. 10mil SP isn't what I'd consider a newbie. Newish maybe, but not a newbie.
Though to answer your question, you don't take the best ship you can fit for your SP to a fight, you take the ship best suited to the role needed in the fight. The advantage is that the higher SP players have more options in their roles. |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Pixel Navigators
70
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 04:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ima just take a minute here to laugh at people who think battleships like the dominix are bad because they've been nerfed to the point of being useless and also the guy who thinks the incursus is overpowered because the SAAR will rep less than a MASB as well as cap you out in under a minute.
Not like a slicer can kite you to death, or a hookbill can outbrawl you or a condor can shut you down completely a d stay way out of your range or anything like that.
The balancing on some ships sucks but if you think there are only a handful of viable ships in game the problem might be you |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
839
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 04:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Risk-aversion of the developers will be what will ultimately stymie Eve's growth.
yk |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3122
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 05:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Can I apply please? |
MacKael
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 05:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
so all i got from this thread was your quiting. if so please feel free to contract all your assets and isk to me pls. |
Joan Greywind
Temnava Legion No Holes Barred
72
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 05:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
I don't play dust, so this will about EVE.
It will help if you look at it from a developer's point of view. When they decide to do any sort of change it is based on numbers and stats. It is not (usually at least) based on a whim, personal biases towards ship types, or just f ******* their playerbase. rightly so sometimes you can make wrong assumptions from these numbers and do something wrong.
Now for the examples:
When they nerfed heavy missiles, they didn't just do it because some people felt it was overpowered, but they did it because heavy missiles were by far the top killers of pvp ships. So their heavy usage means they are overpowered and need to be brought in line with other weapon systems. Does that mean that some niche role of heavy missiles got an undeserved nerf? maybe (such as site runners), but overall the change will usually bring more "balance" to the game.
Now to the change of the t1 cruisers and frigates. Now rightly so they got buffed, but still t2 can easily beat t1 any day of the week (assuming similar real life pilot skills). But now instead of t2 trumping t1 in a hilarious way, t1 stands a chance if a certain gang does it right. The change of t1 cruisers and frigates didn't come at a whim, the numbers showed that in any pvp encounter they were horribly under powered. Before the change no serious pilot flew t1 frigates or cruisers because they were simply so weak, and that is (in my humble opinion unbalanced). From personal experience I can tell you now we fly moa's, vexors. In null caracels are finally a real doctrine. It doesn't matter how you feel, what matters is the numbers, and when any kind of ship is being used relatively less than its counterparts, then it is under powered. That is why the zealot didn't changed much and the eagle got a huge buff, people actually use zealots and nobody used eagles. It is all about the usage number and stats.
Don't get me wrong they can still **** it up and over nerf or over buff something, but from the current meta you can see a wider and healthier array of ship usages, which means that the balance was a great success.
Now your argument that higher skill characters should be better at everything (that is what I took from it anyways) is also wrong. EVE developers have always been stressing that if you specialize you will always be able to reach the same effectiveness of a higher skilled player . More skill points will give you more options but will not give you a permanent advantage over newer players, and that is a very good game mechanic (imo).
Some people will always get hurt with any change in the game, but what is most important is the overall health and balance of the game, and the game is definitely healthier and more balanced than a year ago. |
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marVLs
338
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 05:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Damn You're ugly |
Ravaun
Not Gonna Get me
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 06:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Theory- I think it's people coming from dust, who are now a potentional massive new player base, wanting it to be like Dust. Cheap, easy, and basically a shooter. Thus, CCP will adapt to get the new player base. Who will shortly thereafter quit to begin with. Just my theory on it, if I'm right, I might sadface, so lets hope I'm not right? |
Lugalbandak
Anunnaku Industrial Corp. Northern Associates.
25
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 08:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dust maybe **** , but i got ton of fun with that game , i really like sometimes to play a mindless fps and fitting and such in dust is cool , atleast to my humble opinion.
If tey cont with the game it can only be made better from now on |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
532
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 08:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dust didnt kill EVE yet, but surely diverted dramatically focus, effort and resources from EVE. Are 2-3 years now we don't see a true EVE espansion.
I wait for the official "fail" of Dust and try to figure what we could have now if all the focus on Dust stayed on EVE.
Ship rebalancing is good in general, but yes, it's also a way to advantage new players (nothing bad in this, I think any MMORPG needs it at some point) and indirectly to reduce the PVP risk/costs and death penalities (this is bad, instead) and an huge stealth nerf to T2.
But mostly: ship rebalancing is cheap, it's only some update on few tables, do not requires a real developing effort and is sold to us as main content for the last so-called "expansions"
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Ivan Krividus
Society of Time Forgotten. The United Systems Commonwealth
1
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Posted - 2013.07.24 13:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:No - eve isn't dying yet again.
Current ship rebalance focuses solely around absolute beginners, as anything requiring more than 10m is nerfbatted into the ground compared to T1 frigs and cruisers in an attempt to make generations of old players quit so isk is removed from the economy.
First of all: Typhoon Fleet Issue
OK, so now the game is more skill-based instead of skillpoint-based. Those noobs will have more than 10m SP eventually anyway. Dust, however, is a problem. It should be more similar to EVE. In fact, it could be its own MMO that takes place on the planets.
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Lee Hekard
Photon Scorpions
18
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 13:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
I CAN TASTE THE BITTERNESS! I LOVE IT WHEN A BITTER VET COMES ON AND STARTS THROWING AROUND THEIR SP LEVELS AND WHAT SKILLS THEY HAVE AT LVL 5 ETC! "OH *SOB* *SOB*, IT'S NOT LIKE THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN 'X' AND 'Y' WAS RELEVANT, NOW ALL THE NEW PLAYERS BLAH BLAH BLAH"
HAHAHA! I HAVE <1MIL SP AT THE MOMENT AND I ROCK ASS IN MY T1 FRIG. IT MAKE YOU MAD LIL' BABBY? |
Ge Hucel-Ge
University of Caille Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.07.24 15:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Setaceous wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:Setaceous wrote: Except the higher SP characters would be able to load out the T1 frigate better (much better) than a newbie character. Unless those high SP ones are missing basic skills in favour of getting into more advanced ships. I also dislike people that do that, what a huge waste of time.
Once you have Frig 5 - T2 guns, tank and support skills what else is there? So after maybe 10mil sp what advantage is there to the players who invested isk into better ships/fits if T1 ships are now better than faction ships (Frigates are a great example) ? The high sp players don't 'magically' have Frigates trained to 11. 10mil SP isn't what I'd consider a newbie. Newish maybe, but not a newbie. Though to answer your question, you don't take the best ship you can fit for your SP to a fight, you take the ship best suited to the role needed in the fight. The advantage is that the higher SP players have more options in their roles.
i don't care about that 10mil sp chars are as good in smaller ships than the old vets - what i care about is the 30 mill clone i have to pay, even i am not more effective than a 10 mil noob in the same ship and situation.
and yes im spacepoor cause of pvp and suck at pve and like to fly in 0.0 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4387
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 15:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Most T2 ships haven't even been touched yet, and even the HAC proposals are only at the 1st pass stage and will be tweaked considerably before it's all done.
Seems a bit early to compare the two. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Whitehound
1660
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 18:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dust will not kill EVE. CCP has got a pretty clean server room and they clean the air filters regularly. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2449
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 18:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Man, I totally missed this thread, probably because I don't have Large Collidable Objects on my overview. |
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