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Alundil
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
258
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 14:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Alundil wrote:Interesting idea.
If there's a module to create this, there would then need to be, I assume, a module to detect/dissipate the decoy? Or would this be something that a ship scanner module could identify as a decoy?
Here's another idea.....what if we could create these decoys in 0.0 and LS systems......and PUT CLOAKS ON THEM Actually, you don't need the object at all. You just need to put a name into local. No ship required, active imaginations seem to handle the remaining details. There's a guy in local and he's in a ship this
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big..... Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2465
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 15:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Alundil wrote:Interesting idea.
If there's a module to create this, there would then need to be, I assume, a module to detect/dissipate the decoy? Or would this be something that a ship scanner module could identify as a decoy?
Here's another idea.....what if we could create these decoys in 0.0 and LS systems......and PUT CLOAKS ON THEM Actually, you don't need the object at all. You just need to put a name into local. No ship required, active imaginations seem to handle the remaining details.
lol.... afk the ultimate afk cloaker weapon.... I'm not really in system or logged in, but you think I am.... The nullbear tears would cause another world-wide flood.
Unfortunately, this line of discussion is sidetracking the original idea. Although it makes room for the third decoy version: The decoy pilot in local.... I highly doubt ccp is about to address / alter anything that dramatically influences local, so I don't think this version is something they'd pursue. |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2494
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 20:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Interesting idea.
If there's a module to create this, there would then need to be, I assume, a module to detect/dissipate the decoy? Or would this be something that a ship scanner module could identify as a decoy?
Here's another idea.....what if we could create these decoys in 0.0 and LS systems......and PUT CLOAKS ON THEM
I would assume there would be several means to identify these: a.) As an anchored item, its velocity would always be zero... even if you bumped them. A normal ship you can bump to make it move, but not an anchored item.
b.) A ship scanner should give back a "WTF" result... essentially telling you colorfully that it is a fake ship.
c.) Shoot it... this should simply die much quicker than a normal ship... perhaps even have an unusual hull/armor/shield distribution... like virtually no armor or shields, and a static and low amount of hull HP (5-10k? )
|

Shade Millith
Bite Me inc Bitten.
88
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 11:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
I... like this idea. I actually quite like this idea a lot.
However, what I will say is these things will need a hard limit to how many you can deploy.
Reason being is these things WILL be abused in high lag situations to create more lag, as it is essentially creating another player with standings, hitpoints, etc. |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2505
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 12:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Shade Millith wrote:I... like this idea. I actually quite like this idea a lot.
However, what I will say is these things will need a hard limit to how many you can deploy.
Reason being is these things WILL be abused in high lag situations to create more lag, as it is essentially creating another player with standings, hitpoints, etc.
The masses that be already have the ability to jettison bubbles and cans and drones and convo spam and ...
I don't know how much this will increase the arsenal of techniques to lag out a system, but I'm sure CCP will simply insist they don't abuse it to "cause lag".
Good point though, we don't want to introduce more lag to the game, and hopefully this won't be a big lag-maker. If it is, deployment limits wouldn't hinder most uses of this! |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
2250

|
Posted - 2013.08.20 15:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'm imagining the scene in i-robot where they are looking through hundreds of robots for the one actual badass robot.
I would be that badass robot. |
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Kynric
Sky Fighters
20
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 15:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
This would be a nice addition to the sandbox. |

Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2566
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 15:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I'm imagining the scene in i-robot where they are looking through hundreds of robots for the one actual badass robot.
I would be that badass robot. With creative tools, you get creative tactics. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |

Ager Agemo
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
346
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 15:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
+1, I don't think the lag will be an issue, given this is just an static non functional object being deployed, drones are deployed in numbers of 5, those are a way larger source of lag.
Imagine a whole fleet deploys decoys... they could be used to counter alpha fleets and soak damage from a superior number enemy, lots of strategic possibilities! |

Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
46
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 15:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I'm imagining the scene in i-robot where they are looking through hundreds of robots for the one actual badass robot.
I would be that badass robot. With creative tools, you get creative tactics.
Cyno up, start dropping cap ship decoys, watch as the enemy scrambles to system even though it's only my Pilgrim trolling.
IMHO decoy ships should just appear in local as random people from your corp. Meaning if you deploy too many decoys you run the risk of 2 identical people showing up in local.
Loving the idea, though. |

Batelle
RisingSuns
161
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 15:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
I love this
additional details/ideas
deployment timer (1 minute maybe), during this timer it can clearly be seen as a decoy when on-grid. Perhaps if seen from d-scan while deploying appears as "device" or something, or maybe easier to have it just appear as a ship, with the on-grid timer being the only indication.
deploys as whatever ship you're in, BUT you need to use a specific version that matches your hull-size, and perhaps even race as well. Increased hull size corresponds to higher price and volume per unit.
-max limit of one decoy active per pilot -perhaps even better than the above, max limit of one decoy per pilot per system, with an expiration timer (anywhere from 5 minutes to several hours) beginning once the owner leaves the system.
Fighting is Magic |

Sante Ixnay
University of Caille Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 16:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I'm imagining the scene in i-robot where they are looking through hundreds of robots for the one actual badass robot.
I would be that badass robot.
That's what all the decoy robots are saying. |

Jysella Halcyon
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 18:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
Anchorable inflatable "tanks" for fake staging? plus whatever else people come up with? I like. |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2566
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 18:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Random, off the cuff thought:
Perhaps you need install someone's corps in order to "duplicate them". That would be an awesome use of corpses that don't hurt the "implant" market. And could even add some value to certain people's corpses!
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Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 19:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
Interesting. Pirates/gankers up and see a miner and a domi in belt.
Now is miner a decoy and the domi is waiting for them.
Or is it a real miner and the domi a paper tiger.
Would ship scanners show it is a decoy or not?
Does the decoy go away if you leave grid?
Can the decoy show effects of a module? Ie scan module running or a target breaker.
Easest way is decoy is a duplicate of you ship when you launch it. Ie running same modules, course and speed.
Gate campers use it to make camp look bigger. Gate runners use it to give 2 targets going to warp to make it harder for gate campers. Gate blockade runners use it to send a cloaked decoy ahead of them. (oh wait need an exemption to cloak to allow you to be closer than 2000 m to only your own decoy.
Use decoys to leave a fake large fleet with in jump range of a battle.
Mining fleets leave fake targets for Gankers to waste time on.
Would it be a high utility? Would it be a large drone?
+1overall I think. "Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you." |

Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2571
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 20:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Random, off the cuff thought:
Perhaps you need install someone's corps in order to "duplicate them". That would be an awesome use of corpses that don't hurt the "implant" market. And could even add some value to certain people's corpses!
You rock.
Zombie rigging crosses over to decoy mechanic, lol Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |

Orakkus
Winds of Dawn Kraken.
119
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 22:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I would like an anchorable object that you deploy in space (like a secure can), which creates a "decoy ship".
Details:
It would have a Sensor strength to make it scannable by probes.
It would have a paper thin tank (no matter what ship it was mimicking).
It would be single use, meaning once deployed it would stay in space until it "expired" or until it was destroyed.
It would be temporary.... probably lasting several hours, but perhaps a day or two (we should debate what is reasonable).
It would be smallish (like about the size of a mobile warp disruptor bubble, so any ship could utilize it).
It would be treated as disposable (think build costs similar to a small mobile warp disruptor bubble).
The simple version: It mimics your ship: If you deploy it in a taranis, it appears as a taranis, with your name, your corp ticker, your alliance ticker, your militia ticker, a speed of zero, et al, on everyone's overview (and dscan). If you deploy it in an Avatar, it appears as an Avatar with your name, your corp ticker, et al, on everyone's overview (and dscan).
This more desireable, but harder to code version: Allow the deployer to chose a ship type to mimic.
First off, +1 for sure.
Second, I think this as far as I quoted at least, should be resaonably easy to do following current game mechanics. Have a "tech 1" version that just mimics your current ship and a "Tech 2" version that can mimic any ship. Just have a drop down menu set up that show up when you want to deploy it.
Third, I can see the BIG problem being the same as what happened with cans before they had timers, basically someone getting the bright idea to spam a whole bunch of decoys in say, Jita, forcing near permanent TiDi, just for giggles. But I think that could be avoided if decoys are limited to one or two active per person and expiring in say an hour or two. |

Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
172
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 00:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
would the decoy also show up in local chat with your character details?
If so, wouldn't that bring all 0-sec mining and missioning to a sudden and permanent standstill?
I kind of like that idea though because it would allow you to create "false positive" threat indicators (a neutral in local).
People begin to dismiss false positives very quickly, so local would no longer be a perfect threat detection system.
|

Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic Tribal Band
25
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 01:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:would the decoy also show up in local chat with your character details?
If so, wouldn't that bring all 0-sec mining and missioning to a sudden and permanent standstill?
I kind of like that idea though because it would allow you to create "false positive" threat indicators (a neutral in local).
People begin to dismiss false positives very quickly, so local would no longer be a perfect threat detection system.
Combat probes as the decoy wouldn't be able to have a cloak. |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2568
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 01:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:would the decoy also show up in local chat with your character details?
If so, wouldn't that bring all 0-sec mining and missioning to a sudden and permanent standstill?
I kind of like that idea though because it would allow you to create "false positive" threat indicators (a neutral in local).
People begin to dismiss false positives very quickly, so local would no longer be a perfect threat detection system.
I personally think it would be neat if the decoy showed up in local chat, however I'm pretty sure this would polarize my idea between the "Nerf-dont Nerf Local" crowds. As such, I'll leave that discussion for another day. |

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
827
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 03:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
Id anchor a badger on a gate and wait. Anything to get more people to shoot **** and die. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |

Luc Chastot
Daktaklakpak.
466
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 04:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I'm imagining the scene in i-robot where they are looking through hundreds of robots for the one actual badass robot.
I would be that badass robot. I wouldn't be so sure; unless you really wanted to say "ass bad". Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |

Albert Spear
meadhan oidhche cinneach HELM Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 16:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
In the real world there are many kinds of decoys and many uses for decoys - from hunting ducks to making missiles miss.
If CCP wanted to take on decoys, they should decide what a range of decoy uses might be: 1) make it look like someone/something is in local 2) make it look like there is a sight in the system 3) make it look like there are specific ships/assets in a particular location 4) draw off missiles 5) draw off tracking and locking systems (this is different from ECM only in that it does not prevent a lock, but causes a lock on something else) 6) allow pre-jump intelligence 7) make it seem like someone is in a station 8) change the appearance/sensor readings on a ship (probably more ECM than decoy related) 9) make it look like a ship left by 2 or more gates 10) many more ways that decoys could be used
I would hope that CCP would take the time before implementing any type of decoys to actually think through all the uses and how they fit/don't fit into EVE.
I could see decoy POSes being setup in systems to attract fleets, and fleets of 3 or 4 pilots with a dozen decoys deployed around them while the real ships are stealth bombers waiting to make runs. I could see a decoy freighter making a run through a hostile system while the real fleet is waiting for the gankers to jump.
Of course decoys can hold modules (or should be able to) to do things like triple point someone, so once they take the bait, they are stuck like flies to fly paper and the real fleet can chew them up.
Decoys are so much fun - if you have a wide range of them and the imagination to use them well! |

NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
473
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 20:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
I approve Make the decoy launcher use a charge equivalent to hull size you are in to create the anchorable object. Then you must place a corpse into the hull to be able to anchor/online it. The corpse makes the decoy inherit its personal data, which since they cant be repackaged already exists in the corpse.
No local or anything else it just shows up on scans and dscan. Perhaps make the ehp equivalent to the base hull (or generic decoy class)
Would be really fun and I can see a lot of intriguing options here.
Like which super is the real super? 2 Nyxes 1 HIC |

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
48
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 21:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
If this becomes possible then so too should being able to anchor POS away from a Moon and player built Gates.
Besides who needs decoys.....? That's why corporations have corporate members. |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2572
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 22:54:00 -
[56] - Quote
DrysonBennington wrote:If this becomes possible then so too should being able to anchor POS away from a Moon and player built Gates.
Besides who needs decoys.....? That's why corporations have corporate members.
I don't understand what you mean...
I can anchor a warp bubble anywhere in system, as long as it's not within 5 km's of another object. I was hoping for the same similarity with these "decoy ships".
How do you go from anchorable decoy ships to anchorable POS's located anywhere in space? |

Pidgeon Saissore
Sacred Templar Knights Metatron Inc. Alliance
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 03:45:00 -
[57] - Quote
There would have to be some limits on decoys. Something like having 5 active per character, maybe a new skill. Lasts about 3-4 hours. Tank about 1/3 of the base hull, no skill or module effects. Any ship scan reveals a decoy.
To make a decoy convincing it could yellow / red box people though it wouldn't do anything.
Also a different kind of decoy Med slot module that lets you imprint a false ship scan, cargo and fit as separate ones. Your imprint will be a saved fitting. This will not let you remove items from a cargo scan only add them. This would need to be an active module to keep people from simply autopiloting all day in their gank bait. |

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2831
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 16:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Pidgeon Saissore wrote:There would have to be some limits on decoys. Something like having 5 active per character, maybe a new skill. Lasts about 3-4 hours. Tank about 1/3 of the base hull, no skill or module effects. Any ship scan reveals a decoy.
To make a decoy convincing it could yellow / red box people though it wouldn't do anything.
Also a different kind of decoy Med slot module that lets you imprint a false ship scan, cargo and fit as separate ones. Your imprint will be a saved fitting. This will not let you remove items from a cargo scan only add them. This would need to be an active module to keep people from simply autopiloting all day in their gank bait.
Limits are very much appropriate... something to discourage insane spam throughout the verse.
To be honest, I don't particularly need the decoy to act like an opponent.... just as long as it appears on the overview to confuse an opponent at first glance. |

Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Insidious Empire
3241
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 16:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Pidgeon Saissore wrote:There would have to be some limits on decoys. Something like having 5 active per character, maybe a new skill. Lasts about 3-4 hours. Tank about 1/3 of the base hull, no skill or module effects. Any ship scan reveals a decoy.
To make a decoy convincing it could yellow / red box people though it wouldn't do anything.
Also a different kind of decoy Med slot module that lets you imprint a false ship scan, cargo and fit as separate ones. Your imprint will be a saved fitting. This will not let you remove items from a cargo scan only add them. This would need to be an active module to keep people from simply autopiloting all day in their gank bait. Limits are very much appropriate... something to discourage insane spam throughout the verse. To be honest, I don't particularly need the decoy to act like an opponent.... just as long as it appears on the overview to confuse an opponent at first glance. Absolutely, make them last about as long as jet-cans do. Any active player can replace them as needed. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |

Luna Arindale
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
13
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 17:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
The first thing that popped to my mind when I read this was Firefly and the Crybabies. Can we please have this so I can mimic a personal carrier, then escape with my illegally salvaged goods.  |
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