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***NEWBIES: DO NOT TAKE FROM CARGO CONTAINERS THATS NOT YOURS***

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Phoenix Lord	Posted - 2005.12.17 03:09:00 - [1] Well with RMR out, people that steal from a can can be shot down by the can's owner. Many pirates are taking advantage of this in newbie systems. heres a local chat log of duripant: Quote: [ 2005.12.17 02:44:47 ] Phoenix Lord > *EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION, DO NOT PICK UP <br>STUFF FROM CARGO CONTAINERS* [ 2005.12.17 02:48:01 ] BigEd123 > he hee [ 2005.12.17 02:50:40 ] BigEd123 > evenin pheonix [ 2005.12.17 02:50:54 ] Phoenix Lord > nice try big [ 2005.12.17 02:50:58 ] BigEd123 > lol [ 2005.12.17 02:51:02 ] Phoenix Lord > *EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION, DO NOT PICK UP <br>STUFF FROM CARGO CONTAINERS* [ 2005.12.17 02:51:12 ] BigEd123 > i did and didnt get shot :) [ 2005.12.17 02:51:28 ] Dadud > Thats because you own them. [ 2005.12.17 02:51:48 ] BigEd123 > lol - im only passing a few hours away [ 2005.12.17 02:51:56 ] Dadud > Meh, [ 2005.12.17 02:51:59 ] BigEd123 > thiefs are so immora [ 2005.12.17 02:52:07 ] Phoenix Lord > so are pirates like you :) [ 2005.12.17 02:52:25 ] BigEd123 > lol now thats harsh pheonix [ 2005.12.17 02:52:39 ] Phoenix Lord > the truth hurts :) [ 2005.12.17 02:52:53 ] Dadud > Heh [ 2005.12.17 02:52:53 ] BigEd123 > just wanted to try out the neg regulations to be honest [ 2005.12.17 02:53:03 ] Phoenix Lord > u coulda done that after killing one newb [ 2005.12.17 02:53:08 ] Dadud > By luring? whatta jerk. [ 2005.12.17 02:53:09 ] Phoenix Lord > didnt have to go get more [ 2005.12.17 02:53:11 ] Phoenix Lord > *EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION, DO NOT PICK UP <br>STUFF FROM CARGO CONTAINERS* [ 2005.12.17 02:53:33 ] BigEd123 > i killed the same one twice !!! he tried it again [ 2005.12.17 02:53:40 ] Dadud > Haha. [ 2005.12.17 02:53:49 ] Dadud > whatta tard. [ 2005.12.17 02:54:31 ] BigEd123 > oh well time for bed - not much sport here with you two on guard [ 2005.12.17 02:55:06 ] Phoenix Lord > :P [ 2005.12.17 02:55:09 ] Phoenix Lord > *EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION, DO NOT PICK UP <br>STUFF FROM CARGO CONTAINERS* [ 2005.12.17 02:55:28 ] Edna Mole > please do it [ 2005.12.17 02:55:45 ] Dadud > Heh, that drone i launched cruises when i tell it to attack. [ 2005.12.17 02:55:59 ] Huntsjoo > ooh, free loot! MINE! [ 2005.12.17 02:56:05 ] BigEd123 > dadu im i flashing red on your overview ? [ 2005.12.17 02:56:22 ] Dadud > Yeah. [ 2005.12.17 02:56:26 ] nextek > OOH FREE LOOT!!! [ 2005.12.17 02:56:32 ] BigEd123 > k - just checking it worked for all corp mates [ 2005.12.17 02:56:35 ] Dadud > OOH JOO GET BLOWN [ 2005.12.17 02:56:46 ] nextek > LOOK FREE ORES!! [ 2005.12.17 02:56:53 ] Dadud > OGM PIE [ 2005.12.17 02:56:56 ] nextek > FRIHOLES OMG WTF PWANGE!! [ 2005.12.17 02:57:02 ] Dadud > I <3 PIE [ 2005.12.17 02:58:04 ] BigEd123 > want a race dadud - you get my can and dock before i lock you and shoot ? [ 2005.12.17 02:58:26 ] Phoenix Lord > dud dont be an idiot -_- he has sensor boosters [ 2005.12.17 02:58:31 ] Dadud > Nah. [ 2005.12.17 02:58:45 ] nextek > WEE FREE!!! [ 2005.12.17 02:58:45 ] Dadud > i just feel like orbiting you. [ 2005.12.17 02:58:48 ] BigEd123 > :) bugger phoenix - your a real gooseberyy [ 2005.12.17 02:58:57 ] Phoenix Lord > :P [ 2005.12.17 02:59:01 ] BigEd123 > :) [ 2005.12.17 02:59:03 ] Dadud > So? your a dingleberry [ 2005.12.17 02:59:13 ] nextek > lol maybe we can kill him by orbiting him!! [ 2005.12.17 02:59:14 ] BigEd123 > ed starts to cry [ 2005.12.17 02:59:34 ] Deka Ekato > Thanks Phoenix [ 2005.12.17 02:59:41 ] Phoenix Lord > no prob :) [ 2005.12.17 02:59:42 ] BigEd123 > goodnight batman and robin - your work here is done [ 2005.12.17 02:59:48 ] Phoenix Lord > lol [ 2005.12.17 03:00:01 ] nextek > ^^ [ 2005.12.17 03:00:08 ] Dadud > Im off to pickup my catyalest. [ 2005.12.17 03:00:12 ] BigEd123 > have funwith the game guys - Basically, if you see people getting blown up in secure areas, a jackass is mostlikely doing this.. Just watchout, dont steal from cargo containers that does not belong to you. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CYVOK ASCN SPACE is now a NOW FLY Zone.
Phoenix Lord	Posted - 2005.12.17 03:12:00 - [2] Also, if you happen to see this going on at a certain place, warn people in local chat and put up your own cargo container telling others not to take from cargo containers. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CYVOK ASCN SPACE is now a NOW FLY Zone.
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2005.12.17 04:03:00 - [3] We should also be able to shoot people who SPAM LOCAL like you did...
Phoenix Lord	Posted - 2005.12.17 04:23:00 - [4] :P i typed that lil warning thing everytime the last message scrolled out of the screen. Average of every 3min and 40 secs :D __________________________________________________ Originally by: CYVOK ASCN SPACE is now a NOW FLY Zone.
Snooppari	Posted - 2005.12.17 08:59:00 - [5] Lol, More poor guy's to fill my kill board Naah It's not nice to pick on n00bs.. But I will take my chance if I see one
Lord Zod	Posted - 2005.12.17 11:10:00 - [6] See i thought the flagging was kinda a good idea, it's just been very poorly put in. 1 you get flaged in 0.0 were the is supposed to be no laws. 2, it is now being exploited by jackasses to kill new players. The problem is, the whole point of the flagging was to make it ilegal to take from canisters that did't belong to you, but now people are offering them to new players not only by naming them things like "Free stuff for new players" but by also pretending to be nice in the chat window. I'm pretty sure CCP didn't think about this but it is a very major problem, more so if CCP want to try and get more people to buy the game, how many new players want to join a game and get killed within 1 day due to people exploiting this new flagging system, it's just not on, yesterday i went through loads of high sector systems (mainly the new player spawns) and they were swamped with Free stuff canisters, i think CCP really need to fix this or remove it as i feel it is now causing more problems than it fixed.
Olenir Theadorvin	Posted - 2005.12.17 13:10:00 - [7] You get concorded for shooting other people's jet cans as well do you not? Damn. There goes that idea -- Olenir Theadorvin, Director, Cygnus United. Views expressed within the forum do not necessarily represent those of the corporation. They certainly do not represent the views of a sane man
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.12.17 13:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Lord Zod i think CCP really need to fix this or remove it as i feel it is now causing more problems than it fixed. Newbies will always get hurt, because they are new and oblivious. If it is not someone fooling them with jet cans, it is gonna be low sec gate campers, low sec people who "want to help out on that mission", suicide kestrels, suicide geddon bombers, bad advice, ore thieves, missions too hard for them, you name it. The lesson learned from this is not to trust strangers. They will also realize that Eve is not a cute and cuddly MMO like, well, every other MMO that has no meaning. Those that quit are the kind of people that would never stick to Eve anyhow, because they don't have the mind for it.
Lord Zod	Posted - 2005.12.17 15:57:00 - [9] I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that this is being done outside the main newbie stations in 1.0, all the things you mention are valid expet a newbie can be killed within 2 minutes of joining the game. CCP most likely never thought people would abbuse the system like this (after all it was brought in to help when in fact it is now a big problem), and the fact is it is an exploit and it will make people not stick with the game, sure the game is not cute and cudly but the fact is it is being made into a completly untrusting game, you will trust no player no matter what. I never take from cans and never sucker newbies into it and IMO the only people who really think this is a good thing are the people who use the exploiting of it. Simply put, i feel this is one of the worst addsions i have even seen in any online game.
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.12.17 16:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Lord Zod sure the game is not cute and cudly but the fact is it is being made into a completly untrusting game, you will trust no player no matter what. This is nothing new, the game has always been "Do not trust ANY stranger at ANY time". The player guide on this site has been saying the following for as long as I can remember : Originally by: Player Guide ò TREAT EVERYONE AS HOSTILE unless you know otherwise, i.e. if you don't know someone as a friend or acquaintance assume they are planning to kill you and watch them at all times This game is full of WRITTEN warnings, both in and outside the game. The game is also full of people warning newbies about the dangers. Falling for any of the tricks available for killing newbies means you've made a big mistake, and you should rightly be punished for it. My personal opinion on fooling newbies however is that it is kinda pathetic. Still, so far I see that can flagging has made the game alot more fun. As long as you can mount weapons on ships, they will be used, and weapons hurts people. Simple as that.

Fredrick Engelberg	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:15:00 - [11] Edited by: Fredrick Engelberg on 17/12/2005 17:15:55 Plus, afaik, you can still use a secure container if you don't want to get robbed. So it's pretty obvious that if you see an unsecure container, it's probably a trap. I figured it out, and I'm a n00b, so whatever. Theives have it coming.
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:23:00 - [12] Thieves, yes - no one disputes that. But taking something that you've been invited to take - asked to take - doesn't make you a thief. If someone said "here, have a cookie" and then beat you up for taking it, would they be in the right? I certainly agree that newbies should be cautious and a certain degree of suspicion is a necessary survival tool in EVE, but let's not look at this particular issue as anything but griefing and predation upon those weaker than themselves. We're not talking about taking ore out of a miner's can here - we're talking about people who disguise abuse as generosity because they lack the stones to seek a fair fight in low-sec.
Grimwalius d'Antan	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Corunna ElMan we're talking about people who disguise abuse as generosity because they lack the stones to seek a fair fight in low-sec. Again, this is nothing new, people have always abused generousity and trust to kill newbies in EVERY OTHER MMO that allows PVP. The only difference here is that it is sanctioned, but that still doesn't change the fact that the newbies are letting themselves be fooled. Also, griefing and piracy has NOTHING to do with fighting. Fights is what happens when two or more people engage eachother in circumstances where either side can win. Griefing is about ruining other peoples game, and piracy is about hunting someone down and put him in a situation he cannot dictate. Thus, griefing and piracy is not substitutes for lack of balls to fight fair fights, it is a completely different thing.
Raith Seinar	Posted - 2005.12.17 17:48:00 - [14] I'm a big juicy first day noob (not of MMO's though, SWG refugee here :) ) and I don't get the fuss over this. Running ght tutorial missions, with 3 other players in the same area, it's pretty evident that if you try and loot someone else's containers, you get flagged. How anyone else new to this game could take the chance I dunno, maybe there's more headstrong and idiotic players coming from SWG than I realised ;)
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2005.12.17 19:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Raith Seinar I dunno, maybe there's more headstrong and idiotic players coming from SWG than I realised ;) I guess we have one more of those now... yes, it's obvious that you get flagged - but that doesn't change the fact that people are using this to grief others. If you walked in a store, saw a table that said "free samples" of some food item, tried one and got arrested for shoplifting and executed, would you think it's right? People stealing uninvited from others' containers is one thing - people getting set up when they're doing what they have been invited to do is another thing altogether. Why is it OK to punish one "wrongdoing" but the other kind goes unpunished?
Zell	Posted - 2005.12.17 20:24:00 - [16] Ok scenario.. I float in my raven, near some tard trying to gank newbes. Hes got cans out, in local saying free loot, blah blah. A newbe, gangs me, and picks up the loot in gankers can. Ganker, fires on newbe(that im ganged with). Q: Can i obliterate the newbegreifer? Q: Is there a timelimit on the formation of the gang? Before the grief? Can be done after grief? Q: Both station guns and Concord ignore, yes? Zell "Ginger Magician is just a nublet. I've met more people ingame that have laughed about him, than anyone else in Eve." "A coward dies a thousand times, the brave die just once.."
Mithylos	Posted - 2005.12.17 21:55:00 - [17] Edited by: Mithylos on 17/12/2005 21:56:31 Originally by: Zell Ok scenario.. I float in my raven, near some tard trying to gank newbes. Hes got cans out, in local saying free loot, blah blah. A newbe, gangs me, and picks up the loot in gankers can. Ganker, fires on newbe(that im ganged with). Q: Can i obliterate the newbegreifer? Yes Quote: Q: Is there a timelimit on the formation of the gang? Before the grief? Can be done after grief? This one is worth testing... Assumptions after a patch often don't pan out. Quote: Q: Both station guns and Concord ignore, yes? Yes... and no limitations for docking This is the "fix" for griefers... grief them. If someone is that worried about newbies losing their newbie ships, they can hang out and deputize themselves. "Cowards die many times before their deaths; the valiant never taste of death but once." -William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar, Act 2, Scene 2
werte	Posted - 2005.12.18 00:27:00 - [18] Edited by: werte on 18/12/2005 00:27:29 BTW, the game itself throws you one more warning as you open the cargo container, does it not?
Batar Fireheart	Posted - 2005.12.18 01:11:00 - [19] hmmm has anyone checked to see if ccp put a tutorial in about this? If not, concording ,can flagging, and eye for an eye should have one for the new players or at least a stronger warning about this. come on people, even if you are a new player pay attention to the warning pop up that shows up... anyhoo.. PIECEOF ADVICEto the noobs.. if anyone offers you free loot make sure they gang you first before you pick up the can.. you can pick up cans of gang members legally. "MAY YOUR WALLET BE FULL OF ISK AND YOUR CANNONS BLESSED"
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.18 01:33:00 - [20] Originally by: Phoenix Lord :P i typed that lil warning thing everytime the last message scrolled out of the screen. Average of every 3min and 40 secs :D Basically, if someone can read a popup then they dont need you to hold their hand. They DO get a popup you know. Coddling people makes morons who need help to tell them coffee is hot or peanuts may "contain traces of peanuts"

Phoenix Lord	Posted - 2005.12.18 01:40:00 - [21] You get a warning from cans now? O_o I dont ever remember getting one.. hm.. Well anyways, people were getting blown up left and right at the duripant station, but it stopped after i warned em in local :P __________________________________________________ Originally by: CYVOK ASCN SPACE is now a NOW FLY Zone.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2005.12.18 07:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Phoenix Lord You get a warning from cans now? O_o I dont ever remember getting one.. hm.. Well anyways, people were getting blown up left and right at the duripant station, but it stopped after i warned em in local :P You get the warning after you've selected the item and dragged it into your cargo, so you won't see it just by peeking in someone's can. The prompt then warns you of the risk before the item is actually transfered.
Black Serpent	Posted - 2005.12.18 07:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Batar Fireheart hmmm has anyone checked to see if ccp put a tutorial in about this? If not, concording ,can flagging, and eye for an eye should have one for the new players or at least a stronger warning about this. come on people, even if you are a new player pay attention to the warning pop up that shows up... anyhoo.. PIECEOF ADVICEto the noobs.. if anyone offers you free loot make sure they gang you first before you pick up the can.. you can pick up cans of gang members legally. yeah and you can kill a member of the gang legally afaik, so that's a really great advice
Right Eyeighty	Posted - 2005.12.18 08:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Black Serpent Originally by: Batar Fireheart hmmm has anyone checked to see if ccp put a tutorial in about this? If not, concording ,can flagging, and eye for an eye should have one for the new players or at least a stronger warning about this. come on people, even if you are a new player pay attention to the warning pop up that shows up... anyhoo.. PIECEOF ADVICEto the noobs.. if anyone offers you free loot make sure they gang you first before you pick up the can.. you can pick up cans of gang members legally. yeah and you can kill a member of the gang legally afaik, so that's a really great advice In starter corp? ----------------------------- And now a word from my sponsor
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2005.12.18 11:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Mithylos Edited by: Mithylos on 17/12/2005 21:56:31 Originally by: Zell Ok scenario.. I float in my raven, near some tard trying to gank newbes. Hes got cans out, in local saying free loot, blah blah. A newbe, gangs me, and picks up the loot in gankers can. Ganker, fires on newbe(that im ganged with). Q: Can i obliterate the newbegreifer? Yes Wrong afaik. p - l - u - r
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2005.12.18 17:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Batar Fireheart PIECEOF ADVICEto the noobs.. if anyone offers you free loot make sure they gang you first before you pick up the can.. you can pick up cans of gang members legally. Um, yeah... well-intentioned but DUMB piece of advice. If you suspect someone is looking for a chance to attack you, joining a gang with them is going to get you dead just as quickly. You can attack members of your own gang without retribution - so instead of waiting for the unsuspecting newbie to get a flag from opening the can, the griefer can attack him as soon as the gang is formed. DUH.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.12.18 18:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Batar Fireheart PIECEOF ADVICEto the noobs.. if anyone offers you free loot make sure they gang you first before you pick up the can.. you can pick up cans of gang members legally. Um, yeah... well-intentioned but DUMB piece of advice. If you suspect someone is looking for a chance to attack you, joining a gang with them is going to get you dead just as quickly. You can attack members of your own gang without retribution - so instead of waiting for the unsuspecting newbie to get a flag from opening the can, the griefer can attack him as soon as the gang is formed. DUH. err Bull****. You cannot attack members of your gang without Concord killing you (unless you are in the same non-noob corp) Want proof? Climb in your most expensive ship and gang someone in Jita. Now shoot them. Please report back with your findings
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2005.12.18 18:50:00 - [28] Has that changed? Because it doesn't agree with what I've read elsewhere - then again, EVE isn't exactly the most well-documented game, considering that aside from the Player Guide you have to get all info second-hand from other players, who may or may not be a reliable source... If I'm incorrect, I apologize - but that doesn't alleviate the need for suspicion and caution here, nor does it excuse the griefing behavior that CCP has knowingly enabled in spite of people warning of this beforehand.
Batar Fireheart	Posted - 2005.12.18 20:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Batar Fireheart PIECEOF ADVICEto the noobs.. if anyone offers you free loot make sure they gang you first before you pick up the can.. you can pick up cans of gang members legally. Um, yeah... well-intentioned but DUMB piece of advice. If you suspect someone is looking for a chance to attack you, joining a gang with them is going to get you dead just as quickly. You can attack members of your own gang without retribution - so instead of waiting for the unsuspecting newbie to get a flag from opening the can, the griefer can attack him as soon as the gang is formed. DUH. umm test this before you talk.. i have tested this personally in a .3 system with some friends.. you cannot attack members of your own gang (unless you are in the same corp)without being flagged, and gang members can take from your cans.. so dont go by hear say and start mouthing off about things you dont know about.. "MAY YOUR WALLET BE FULL OF ISK AND YOUR CANNONS BLESSED"
Raznarok	Posted - 2005.12.18 20:55:00 - [30] It would take a pretty lame someone to set up cans to setup a n00b then shoot them - no sport



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