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Freighters, where's the loot?

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Hubris	Posted - 2005.12.19 22:48:00 - [1] I bet this has been posted about but I cannot find any info on the subject (no searches on forums). Having been in on quite a few freighter destructions here lately, one thing keeps being brought up over and over. Why do freighters not drop anything they are carrying? With the rules as is, the only thing that has come to mind is that freighters are basicly a totaly secure transport method. While transporting things through space you can always keep in mind that nothing in your cargo hold will ever be stolen by anyone. To add to it, nothing even shows up as destroyed in the kill mails. So nothing to worry about the opposing force getting your stuff. Or even knowing what that stuff was. Is this right or fair in any sense of the words? We have blown up a lot of haulers that have ships pop out of them. Why do freighters get a pass on this? I know a lot of you say, "Ah he is just a darn pirate out to get more money, down with you darn no good pirates". I know its more four letter words in there but I am trying to be nice here..... I admit thats what I am after. I am a pirate after all. But we have to work pretty hard to catch these guys. Then we have to have a large enough group to lock it down and have the ability to destroy it. Or show it that we mean business by getting it into structure as quickly as possible. Now then we at SNIGG try to ransom the ships but many have opted to just log out. Then we are forced to destroy the ship as soon as possible to avoid it just vanishing from the game. To do this right we need more than double the amount of isk in ships and equipment than the freighter and his friends have. (mind I said to do it right, sometimes you get away with using less depending on the situation) The large group is needed especially if we have to deal with fire from sentry guns and ships protecting the freighter while we do our work. Am i just crazy for even asking why? Also is there any DEV or GM that can say this is right or fair? Or if this is going to change?
Arhab	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:10:00 - [2] Ah he is just a darn pirate out to get more money, down with you darn no good pirates! p.s. this isnt the right forum, you want Crime and Punishment, there are people a lot more smarter there then us carebears. so shooo off you go.
Idara	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:17:00 - [3] Yeah, it sucks. We took out a Freighter once before and nothing dropped. But it'd be kinda scary/laggy to see a couple cargo cans plus hundreds of ships be **** out upon destruction... Although that would be a very nice reward! -------------------------------------------------------- Lance Corporal BSC Military
MachZERO	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:17:00 - [4] meh.. I can understand why you would be ****ed about such a thing... I would be too. But consider this.. Freighters are just big-ass floating cargo containers. Next time you are in space jet a can and blow it up. Basically, freighters are the exact same thing. You wouldn't expect a container to pop out of a jet can or giant secure container if those are blown up so it's my guess that freighters are treated the same way in eve currently. At least that's the way they seem to be at any rate. I'm with you in this regard. There should be something to show for the time it takes to take down a freighter other than a kill mail. (which I imagine takes a while.) --------------------------------------------- "Rang Rang" ---------------------------------------------
Embattle	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:18:00 - [5] Perhaps so much force to destroy it you blew up all the cargo too ----------- Trolling - Ban - All I got was this silly Hat.
Vito Parabellum	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:18:00 - [6] Edited by: Vito Parabellum on 19/12/2005 23:21:13 Once upon a time they decided that 27000m3 was big enough to hold any ships cargo, and they made the standard jetcan that size, instead of making it variable. Heck even a pod drops one of those! When freighters came into play this wasnt true anymore, so I bet that if a freighter is carrying more stuff than 27000m3 there is an exception thrown somewhere and nothing is dropped! Well, thats my unqualified guess. Ps, this is why jetcan mining exists. Ta. Edit: And I also bet that if its carrying less than 27000m3, it wont drop anything anyway because the rule that freighters cant drop anything!
Gretchen Dawntreader	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:24:00 - [7] One property of Freighters (so they say, I'm a few hundred mill short of having one) is that they are station-to-station transport only. Freighters cannot scoop cans or jettison items, so I am told. Perhaps this has the side effect of no can on destruction. Not that I would wish an easier time on S******dly, but that is possibly an explanation. Just guessing though.
MellaRinn	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Embattle Perhaps so much force to destroy it you blew up all the cargo too Then it would negate the killmail argument...
Miss Marketing	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:24:00 - [9] Hungry for Gallentean Planetary Vehicles, Khumaak, Long-limb Roes, or perhaps just the long limbs of several square kilometers of Exotic Dancers eh? Dam those multi-billion ISK freighter pilots, especially the f$%úing buy orders they use to corner the market. I was toying with joining the to kill them but now I see there isn't really any point.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:29:00 - [10] killmails are limited frieghters should drop something otherwise popping them juust becomes an exercise in disrupting another corp not getting some of hteir loot CCP please restore the recruitment channel
Rabbitgod	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:30:00 - [11] Its because frighters can't make jet cans nor can a jet cans hold anywhere near what a frighter can carry. I'm thinking that the reason you don't get a list of distroyed items is because the server skips the random roll program of what will servive and die and that the this random roll program is also responable for adding the items to the kill mail but as I said before since its skiped it never gets the chance. Thats just a guess on my part tho. Here these will help
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:33:00 - [12] The Damage Table Theory suggests that all trade goods have a 80-90% chance of being destroyed. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
Urfin	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:35:00 - [13] Not right, not fair, but may be explained by the technical problems of a full freighter dropping even half of its loot - it's bound to cause a nasty lag spike. But if there's a technical way for freighters to drop loot, they should, no other excuse for them not to. Other than that the freighter cargo vanishing is a damn big isk sink, which may actually be the real reason. _____________________ Heatsink - Ship efficiency calculation proggie
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:38:00 - [14] well CCP could fix it - create a specific loot drop can that only drops from frieghters (call it a frieghter jet can) freighters can jettison them but if they are destroyed then a larger 100,000 can will drop with the random assortment of items that do survive CCP please restore the recruitment channel
Wee Dave	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:39:00 - [15] Think about this reasonably. You pop a freighter and fifty ships come out. Tranquility would melt. You remember how people used to spam ammo and shuttles into space? It'd be like that times a million. A random drop of say 5% of goods might work, but I'd expect it'd lag things to bits even so.
Embattle	Posted - 2005.12.19 23:42:00 - [16] Originally by: MellaRinn Originally by: Embattle Perhaps so much force to destroy it you blew up all the cargo too Then it would negate the killmail argument... I get wrong mail all the time ....however I go with the idea that since they can't drop cans then neither can they when they get blown up. ----------- Trolling - Ban - All I got was this silly Hat.
Hubris	Posted - 2005.12.20 00:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Arhab Ah he is just a darn pirate out to get more money, down with you darn no good pirates! p.s. this isnt the right forum, you want Crime and Punishment, there are people a lot more smarter there then us carebears. so shooo off you go. Just because I am a pirate doesn't mean everything I ask about belongs in crime and punishment. Oh I'm sorry i guess because I wasn't talking about macro BS it doesn't belong in general discussion.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.20 00:33:00 - [18] Originally by: Embattle Originally by: MellaRinn Originally by: Embattle Perhaps so much force to destroy it you blew up all the cargo too Then it would negate the killmail argument... I get wrong mail all the time ....however I go with the idea that since they can't drop cans then neither can they when they get blown up. Yeah killmails are a little b0rked already. I can only use 6 identical, unnamed tech1 beams with UV ammo and no EW or drones for an entire fight and half the time the killmail shows the weapon I used as "unknown". ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.12.20 00:34:00 - [19] currently a low priority thing for CCP ie freighters destroyed and not dropping anything i expect this will remain this way for 2 years CCP please restore the recruitment channel
Hubris	Posted - 2005.12.20 00:35:00 - [20] Originally by: Wee Dave Think about this reasonably. You pop a freighter and fifty ships come out. Tranquility would melt. You remember how people used to spam ammo and shuttles into space? It'd be like that times a million. A random drop of say 5% of goods might work, but I'd expect it'd lag things to bits even so. How about a single can that just has a tag that freighters can only pick up. And can only be created when a freighter blows up. The freighter picks it up and can only open it once in a station. Then lag does not affect anything. No fifty ships popping out etc.
Arhab	Posted - 2005.12.20 00:37:00 - [21] Took you a while to bite at my troll post, it was purely in jest and yours is a valid question. It was just the responses sometimes in Crime and Punishment irk me. I agree a juicy price such as a freighter should yield something, its a lot more fun to have a freighter require escort, a freighter is basically a convoy of haulers so to speak, and should require and escort for all that booty.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.20 00:44:00 - [22] Increasing the size of the jet can to 3-5 times the size it is now as a blanket action might be a smooth move.... Miners still have to refresh cans every hour, so nothing really changes. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
Hubris	Posted - 2005.12.20 01:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Corvus Dove Increasing the size of the jet can to 3-5 times the size it is now as a blanket action might be a smooth move.... Miners still have to refresh cans every hour, so nothing really changes. I can't be part of helping miners, joking..... I don't know what the exact size a freighter can hold is. But multiple cans or increasing the size of regular cans would be fine by me. As long as we get the lootage from these damn freighters we spend so much effort destroying.
Wee Dave	Posted - 2005.12.20 01:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Hubris Originally by: Wee Dave Think about this reasonably. You pop a freighter and fifty ships come out. Tranquility would melt. You remember how people used to spam ammo and shuttles into space? It'd be like that times a million. A random drop of say 5% of goods might work, but I'd expect it'd lag things to bits even so. How about a single can that just has a tag that freighters can only pick up. And can only be created when a freighter blows up. The freighter picks it up and can only open it once in a station. Then lag does not affect anything. No fifty ships popping out etc. Might work, though I'd also be happy to see a new item such as 'melted goop'. You could refine it into useful minerals and it would be say 100m3 and the freighter would drop one for each 1000m3 or 10,000m3 of destroyed cargo. There are neat solutions but they would require special coding, and I'm guessing that's why it hasn't been done yet.
Corvus Dove	Posted - 2005.12.20 01:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Wee Dave Originally by: Hubris Originally by: Wee Dave Think about this reasonably. You pop a freighter and fifty ships come out. Tranquility would melt. You remember how people used to spam ammo and shuttles into space? It'd be like that times a million. A random drop of say 5% of goods might work, but I'd expect it'd lag things to bits even so. How about a single can that just has a tag that freighters can only pick up. And can only be created when a freighter blows up. The freighter picks it up and can only open it once in a station. Then lag does not affect anything. No fifty ships popping out etc. Might work, though I'd also be happy to see a new item such as 'melted goop'. You could refine it into useful minerals and it would be say 100m3 and the freighter would drop one for each 1000m3 or 10,000m3 of destroyed cargo. There are neat solutions but they would require special coding, and I'm guessing that's why it hasn't been done yet. I'd be all for that, considering we pirates can't be arsed to actually take a cargo hold full of data sheets to where it's actually worth something. "Melted Goop" that is roughly 1m3 per unit, with a 50% unit total measured against the original amount of items in the cargo hold. Gives a geddon with stock cargo and no ammo 600 units of "Melted Goop" to take home and refine, or get a hauler for it and grab it all. Refines to a whole lot of trit, a little bit of zyd, a generous bit of noxc and mex, and a chunk of pyrite, with maybe a unit of megacyte or mercoxit per refine. ----------------------------------------------- MAKE THE MACROERS SCREAM
Drakus Felborne	Posted - 2005.12.20 01:45:00 - [26] Ever considered the possibility that you are popping empty freighters? Given the total lack of fittings, which means it has no way out of getting destroyed in .4 or less, I can't imagine that anyone would take anything but a fresh-from the factory ship through "gank me" space. The complaints I saw some time back about Freighters wrecking the empire economy is 2-sided. Since they literally have no survival if hit with a -1 warp scramble and get webbed, how are they gonna get anything done in low-sec?
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2005.12.20 01:47:00 - [27] Originally by: Vito Parabellum When freighters came into play this wasnt true anymore, so I bet that if a freighter is carrying more stuff than 27000m3 there is an exception thrown somewhere and nothing is dropped! Well, thats my unqualified guess. Edit: And I also bet that if its carrying less than 27000m3, it wont drop anything anyway because the rule that freighters cant drop anything! Hmmmmmmmmmmm, scary that the two statements above can be almost correct. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2005.12.20 02:22:00 - [28] THREAD MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."

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