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Keorythe
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Posted - 2005.12.20 13:29:00 -
[1]
Ok I'm new to all of this but I've made some good progress. So far I have Frig 3 with Gal, Cal, and Al racial ships qualifying me for all of those Frigate types.
Now I'm looking at the next step up. Some people are saying cruiser but I'm actually eyeing the Destroyers right now. Although with a number of people practically over polishing their cruisers I'm wondering if Destroyers is something to be bypassed.
I could use some opinions about Destroyers, their uses and their worth.
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Olixia Castitatis
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Posted - 2005.12.20 13:56:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Olixia Castitatis on 20/12/2005 13:56:34 Basic Destroyers are a bit crap really. They are Ok if you don't have much money, but if you can afford a cruiser, get one.
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burning raven
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Posted - 2005.12.20 14:23:00 -
[3]
imo, pick your favourate races ship then focus on that rather htan getting them all straight away.
as for desroyers, skip em completely :p
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Ayla Vanir
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Posted - 2005.12.20 14:26:00 -
[4]
Destroyers are limited in utility when compared with cruisers. That's not to say it's not 'worth it' to get one. From my own experience, I'll list out a few pros and cons I found:
Cruiser skills are pre-requisites for a number of other ship types. Eventually, most people will want to train for cruisers anyway. Destroyers are not pre-requisites for any ship type - until now in RMR, where I *think* T2 destroyers (Interdicters?) have some destroyer skill pre-requisite. It's a narrowly-defined role, and aside from that ship type there is no 'upgrade path' for your destroyer skill training time.
Costs: Destroyers are cheaper than cruisers, and can be fitted with the frigate-level equipment and skills you've already acquired. Cruiser weapons in particular require a set of skills that you may not have acquired at this point (things like Medium turrets and assault and heavy launchers). You can fit frigate-class weapons on cruisers, but that isn't practical. You'd probably be better off staying in a frigate (or Destroyer) if your targets are susceptible to frigate-class weaponry anyway. Aside from weapons, you want to upgrade your other fittings to better suit a cruiser. After everything is said and done, you need more ISK and time to properly outfit and use a cruiser than you would to use a Destroyer effectively. The difference isn't just in ship costs. Cruiser fittings and insurance are significantly higher than frigate/destroyer class items.
Destroyers are more effective than frigates - or cruisers - for any Level 1 Agent kill mission and low end deadspace complexes (1/10 - 2/10 I'd say. Some Alpha-Geeks brag about doing higher level missions/complexes in frigates or destroyers though). You can complete these low level missions/complexes in a frigate or Cruiser, but you'd complete them faster in a destroyer in every case I can think of. Level 2 agent kill missions are easier in a Cruiser than they are in either a frigate or destroyer, so your reward opportunities in a cruiser are higher than they are in a destroyer. This offsets the higher cost of entry into a cruiser.
Destroyers are fun. So are cruisers. This time around (I've started a few characters, before finalizing on my current one), I'm bypassing destroyers for now at least. They're fun, but I want to be able to do higher level missions and complexes than would be practical in either a frigate or destroyer.
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Keorythe
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:43:00 -
[5]
Well I am of course working towards cruisers like everyone else but along the way I found out I qualified for destroyers. Its going to be a long while before I'm ready for cruisers though (not to mention afford to buy and maintain one).
Anyways the only skill I needed to learn to fly the destroyer was "destroyer 1 skill". Everything else I've been learning has been the basic stuff that everyone says I need, ie gunnery, electronics, engineering, etc stuff.
I just wanted some opinions on whether I should jump to destroyers or just stick with a frigate until I move to cruisers. I'm running a Merlin right now and its working fine but in 0.4 space I feel kinda small.
Are destroyers good for security? Long range shootouts? Taking on cruisers? Fire support only? PvP?
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Sharcy
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Posted - 2005.12.21 11:51:00 -
[6]
With 8 Hi slots (7 turrets), I can even do some mining in my Cormorant . Destroyers are great for rat hunting and missions, especially if you have an agent that mixes courier and kill missions. Plus, flying one stimulates you to get your Gunnery skills up, and gives you the time to do so.
-- Press [Alt][F4] for my witty signature... |
Cenaxx
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Posted - 2005.12.21 22:26:00 -
[7]
Well, I got a comorant with 7 75mm Railgun 1's and a rocket launcher 1.
I hunt in Torvi often, and it's so awesome. I'd take like half shields damage while taking on 4 serpentis watchmen.
As for my destroyer, I love it. I find it to be extremely useful in killing frigates(Destroyers are like the frigates worst fear.) You'd think with 75mm's I'd be hitting low, but I used 150mm's before, and they sucked. Couldn't hit a thing until I stepped down. Also, the 75mm's give about 2/3-1/4 PW grid left on other stuff. Power on destroyers is extremely bad, but learning how to compensate makes you an even better pilot. |
Ominus Decre
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Posted - 2005.12.21 23:06:00 -
[8]
I have a real blast with my Amarr COERCER class Destroyer. It's outfitted with 2 small Medium Beam Lasers, 6 small gatling (don't recall type) and 2 Nosferatu's. Sure, I can outfit it with slightly better items but the thing is so much fun!!
Missles wreck me something fierce so I have to watch out for them. Using my afterburner I hit 510 m/s top which allows for some ability to avoid hits while attempting to close in on a cruiser with a 70k bounty in .4 security space.
The Destroyer has a limited roll and if you could get one wingman in a nicely outfitted frigate you both should have ALOT of fun wrecking Pirates or doing complexes.
I can solo the 3/10 Drone complexes and make a fast .8m in about 25 minutes...
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Witch Doctor
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Posted - 2005.12.22 00:14:00 -
[9]
Destroyers can be easier on the new char on fitting and will give you a damage boost that will allow you to upgrade your ratting/missioning targets, plus you can delay training the new weapon tier in favor of some universal skills that always get neglected early on.
Train the Destroyer skill to 3 and focus your time on skills like motion prediction, sig analysis, learning skills, etc. You'll be that much stronger when you do hop into a cruiser.
It's probably a better long-term approach, but there is that thrill of hopping into a bigger ship that proves too tantalizing. I remember undocking in my first BB way back when ... certainly not a gratification that many noobs can (or should) delay.
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Yossar
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Posted - 2005.12.22 02:08:00 -
[10]
Destroyer 3 takes about a day to train and the ships are cheap so it's not much of a waste just to try one out until you get enough money and skills for a decent cruiser. They're great for level 1 missions and the easier level 2s (although I haven't flown one post-patch).
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Szordin
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Posted - 2005.12.22 04:43:00 -
[11]
Destroyers probably do what they are meant to do well, which seems to be destorying t1 frigates. But IMO since the skill tree only leads to destroyers, its simply not worth the effort.
However I have never flown a destroyer, this is simply from looking at the numbers. If you figure a destroyer costs about 1M, and you can get a cruiser for 3-4M, personally I would just save and go straight to cruiser. You can make 3M-4M so easy that I don't think its worth spending the time getting a destroyer.
Of course opinions vary and thats just mine.
Do whatever you think will make you happy, we can't play the game for you.
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Keorythe
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Posted - 2005.12.22 11:17:00 -
[12]
Well I ended up picking up a Gallente Catalyst and tested it out. Only needed "Destroyer 1" to use it and it was worth it.
Turned out to be overkill on some of my level 1 agente missions but made great for rat hunting in 0.5 space. Something that my lower end skills and gear had problems with in just a Tristam. Working to fix that though.
I tagged along with a friend in his cruiser and flew wingman. All of the sudden I realized that I filled in a much needed gap. There were some missions where we were swarmed with drones and/or frigate and the cruiser had some issues. The Catalyst cut through them like you wouldn't believe. While dueling with another cruiser I was able to lend some good fire support to my wingmate as well packing 8 125mm scouts and cap reducing tungsten shot. Hard drain on the cap but manageable with the right skills and besides...most of the stuff I shot at died too fast.
Its also proving to be more versitile than I thought as well. I am able to contribute to mining operations extremely well. While packing only 2 mining lasers I was able to fill my hold then add them to a Corp cargo case. If rats or even worse, ore pirates showed I was able to rain down some serious firepower.
Does this mean I'm giving up my Tristam? No. But its going to be less used than it was in the past.
Cruisers are still in my skill path but for now I'll just enjoy my B-wing..err Destroyer.
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NetHawk
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:43:00 -
[13]
Actually, I think the Tristan is much more like a B-Wing then a Destroyer. I fly a Catalyst to do level 2 complexes and I did quite a few level 2 missions in it pre-patch using iron ammo and doing quite a bit of running. Currently, I have one fitted with 6 blasters, 2 NOS, webber, burner, armor repper and 2 overdrives. It wont tackle like and inty but it can take down those cruisers in 2/10 complexes in about 30 seconds and that's without any real gunnery skills. Do remember to do your learning skills! Real important!
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Calenth
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Posted - 2005.12.22 17:50:00 -
[14]
Destroyers are great as cheap, disposable gunboats for fleet ops where you don't want to risk more expensive ships; properlly piloted they have enough oomph to take out t2 frigates.
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Erloas
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Posted - 2005.12.22 22:59:00 -
[15]
I had the same choice a while ago. I went with the destoyer. It was cheaper and it used all the skills and modules I already had. It handled everything I ran into down to .3 I didn't get much lower then that. It easily handled 2 cruisers and 3 frigates (low end ones, like 40-55k and 8-12k)
Later though I joined a corp and moved to 0.0 and ended up moving to a cruiser, but so far I've found that with my skills and less turrets I'm getting less DPS from the cruiser then I was from the destroyer. Though I don't have good missile or drone skills yet.
I would say if you are planning on training for Intys and AFs then go with the destroyer so you can use all the small skills you are training. But if your end goal is a BS then go straight to the cruiser.
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Yossar
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Posted - 2005.12.23 00:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Erloas I would say if you are planning on training for Intys and AFs then go with the destroyer so you can use all the small skills you are training. But if your end goal is a BS then go straight to the cruiser.
What "small skills"? Tech 2 large guns require the skills for Tech 2 small guns so you're going to need to take the Small Turret skill to 5 anyway. It's a cheap skill to take to 5 as well.
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Tkras
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Posted - 2005.12.23 16:37:00 -
[17]
Thanks for the well written posts in this thread. I am glad I picked up a destroyer now. I am not in a rush to jump in a cruiser, well that is a lie. But I like it a heck of alot better than my frigate.
Having 8 turrets eats my power like crazy, but I go through mobs on missions like a hot knife through butter.
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Jezut
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Posted - 2005.12.23 17:24:00 -
[18]
Destroyers are made of paper, and aren't that much more powerful than the high end frigs. IMHO, as well as others from above, go straight for the Cruiser. I got one destroyer, it got popped and I immediately went to train for the cruiser. Also, all the destroyers have a BIG problem with power, and to fit anything worth a damn on there you have to train engineering up high (and by that time, you could have had your cruiser, so why waste the time??)
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Winston VanSantz
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Posted - 2005.12.23 18:57:00 -
[19]
I just started using my cormorant and they are great. The whole argument of "skipping" destroyers is really quite silly, since they do not cost that much, and are only a rank 2 skill, as opposed to a rank 5 skill like cruisrs. There is no doubt that cruisers are better ships, but you could say the same for interceptors or covert ops, and argue that you should skip cruisers unitl later.
Just realize they will not let you solo .3s, you will still be stuck in .4s or above, but it will make rat hunting a lot easier. Lvl 2 missions wont be much easier with a destroyer, but it will make lvl 1 missions go by in a snap. Not to mention, a destroyer plays a much better support role when flying with cruisers than any frigate. The only real downside to destroyers is they could all use about 10 MW more of power. But working within those limitations gives you some good experience to ship optimization.
Personally, I like collecting ships, and I dont sell the when I upgrade, so skipping destroyers was never an option for me.
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PyroEra
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Posted - 2005.12.23 20:58:00 -
[20]
Frigs--------->Destroyers----------->crusiers.....destroyers is in the middle...imo ide go for the destroyer and rat hunt/mission till u get the money for a cruiser
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Ornessney
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Posted - 2005.12.24 05:47:00 -
[21]
Got my Catalyst 3 weeks ago and since then i've trained all the way to battleship
But the catalyst is by far the best ship i've ever flown
It's so versitle. EG I can do cargo runs with it with expanded cargo holds giving a max capasity of 665m3 (bigger than your wingmans battleship) fitting it for speed with nanofibres and MWD's (or tech II AB's) giving you crazy speeds and high manuervablity - great for setting 0.0 instra jump coords or traveling in 0.0 space. Plus when you've trained your energy, electronics and all the major base skills aswell as the gunnery skills to lvl 4/5, its a joy to fly and great for heavier ship support and anti frigate and armoured transportation in 0.0 space.
Tip's, NOS and/or cap boosters are a must and armour instead of sheild repairing is the best way to survive IMHO.
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Winston VanSantz
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Posted - 2005.12.24 06:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ornessney Got my Catalyst 3 weeks ago and since then i've trained all the way to battleship
But the catalyst is by far the best ship i've ever flown
It's so versitle. EG I can do cargo runs with it with expanded cargo holds giving a max capasity of 665m3 (bigger than your wingmans battleship) fitting it for speed with nanofibres and MWD's (or tech II AB's) giving you crazy speeds and high manuervablity - great for setting 0.0 instra jump coords or traveling in 0.0 space. Plus when you've trained your energy, electronics and all the major base skills aswell as the gunnery skills to lvl 4/5, its a joy to fly and great for heavier ship support and anti frigate and armoured transportation in 0.0 space.
Tip's, NOS and/or cap boosters are a must and armour instead of sheild repairing is the best way to survive IMHO.
what is NOS?
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Ornessney
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Posted - 2005.12.24 06:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Winston VanSantz
what is NOS?
http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/engineeringequipment/energyvampires/small/530.asp
It's short hand for Nosferatu, an energy vampire
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Helene Troi
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Posted - 2005.12.24 11:22:00 -
[24]
I'm not interested in anything bigger than a destroyer right now...
pre-patch I was doing any lvl 2 mission in it.
They are in reality just a souped up frigate but the upgrade is worth it if you like small ships...
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Aurora Ex
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Posted - 2005.12.25 13:09:00 -
[25]
I'm flying a Cormarant and I love it. However I'll admit I'm still new and working lvl 1 missions, but it is a blast to fly. Like others said, the power constraint is the only problem but that has helped me focus my training so I can fit it properly.
I have my heart set on interceptors ultimately (Can you do higher lvl agent missions in these?) but the new Interdictors sound far too sweet for me to pass up. Fortunately, you have to have Interceptors trained to fly an Interdictor so I'm already on the right track.
Someone mentioned that Destroyers work well accompanying Cruisers on T2 missions. I have to say that I found this to be true the other day. My friend normally found frigates and drones in his missions annoying but with me there I had destroyed all of them before his drones could and he just stopped sending them out and let me have all the fun
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