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Ishan Shade
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:00:00 -
[31]
It's called Sisi. it's the test server go there and test all you want.
ktnxbye
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:01:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Lord Draylon
And yes you can learn how to fight "real" pvp using a system like this. Because you would have a chance to test out equipment and note how effective they are in combat scenarios. Sure bship battles use more modules but most are available in smaller scale for the frigs and could be experiemented with. So to say you gain no real combat experience fighting in frigs is invalid.
Go and try 0.0 PvPing and you can be sure this is almost 100% wrong. The only reason that I can think of ppl shunning away from PvPing is because of
1. implants
2. cant afford to lose their domination setup T1 cruiser.
What is the use of having all the ISKs if you cant really "use" them. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
SilKKZ the3rd
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:02:00 -
[33]
The space sim in Jumpgate did promote more people doing pvp in real space, not less. They could get in, try it out, and find out that, yes, you risked losing a ship, but its such a rush thats its well worth the risk.
And again, many of the pilots in my corp discovered they liked pvp, but would never have tried it in first place in real space. Please, do not dimiss the OP, I think his idea would realy bring more pilots to pvp and be an added value for all EvE pilots.
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Xeovar Stoner
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:02:00 -
[34]
Why not implement an in-game flight simulator ?
One-few completely separate systems, accessible only from station terminals, where you can fit any ship you can fly with any modules (only for purpose of simulation). Thats it.
Basically no aditional code except simulator interface and some more server space for simulator systems.
That's it. Something like that was in JumpGate and it was cool - first you could prpactice pvp without the loss, try different fits and it was a great place to organize tournaments and stuff.
--
"Learning is not compulsory...
neither is survival. "
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SilKKZ the3rd
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:05:00 -
[35]
BTW, I understand that you can do this on Sissy (sp?), but it requires a special install that I dont want to bother with. Us pvpers want more people to fight with, here is a simple solution to the dilemma.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:06:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/12/2005 16:07:07
Originally by: Lord Draylon
Re-invent the wheel? Adding an enhancing feature to an already existing system is re-inventing the wheel?
Am I asking the devs to take something out? Am I asking them to somehow nerf combat? Am I asking them to remove the appeal of high-level play? If anything this system would whet the appetite for high-level play. It would stimulate the economy. It would make noobs more combat savvy. etc etc.... I am baffled at your opinion but you have a right to state it..
What is not re-inventing the wheel?
1. 1v1 PvPing... already available in-game.
2. "Arena type PvPing..." already available in-game.
3. Blah, blah, blah... already available in-game.
Having a dedicated "complex" or "system" for VR PvPing, oh have to code that in. Maybe I am blind or have misunderstood something, but those "arena" stuffs are already there.
Besides, have you ever tried PvPing yet? I know I would probably say what you have said before *IF* I havent tried PvPing. But I guess, I am doing it to say, that you have misunderstood the current system.
Afterall, what have you got to lose in PvP except for some ISKs, ships and maybe your 100M implants? 
Laugh if you want to, I am a bit "old" in EvE and I still do use Kestrels and Merlins for PvPing. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Kulwryn
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:15:00 -
[37]
Consider it a training simulator like in Jumpgate. That game was built on pvp as well but they gave people an option to practice in simulators. Its the best option.
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Sinari Galdrin
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:16:00 -
[38]
What about incorporating it into agent missions.
Two players from different factions get sent off to the same deadspace area. As long as the gates limit the entry ships to a certain type or below (depending on the agent mission level), it should be OK.
The agent might warn that you might meet a real player, or he might not..
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:18:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kulwryn
Consider it a training simulator like in Jumpgate. That game was built on pvp as well but they gave people an option to practice in simulators. Its the best option.
Sounds like Guildwars.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:20:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/12/2005 16:20:42
Originally by: Sinari Galdrin
What about incorporating it into agent missions.
Two players from different factions get sent off to the same deadspace area. As long as the gates limit the entry ships to a certain type or below (depending on the agent mission level), it should be OK.
The agent might warn that you might meet a real player, or he might not..
More newbs will get into trouble because of this. Consider, a 2 year old character with "elite" skill points farming on a lvl 2 agent. Hmmmmm, you can guess what will happen when they meet each other.
Aftermath:
Somewhere in EVE General Discussion.
Subject: Agent-like arena exploit!!!
Message: Make a guess.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Stogee
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:38:00 -
[41]
I think the idea of dueling or Tournements is a great one. To all the PVP purists go and cry in the depths of 0.0 space where no one can hear you sob.
I dont think it should be simulated, it should be real ships which are actually destroyed, likewise for equipment.
Dueling?
There are various parameters that could be added to the duel? What level of ships on each side, what level of quipment. No admission fees, "you keep what you kill" in the duel. If you lose, then you lose your stuff.
For tournements add an admission and prize money based on the admission fee. I dont know.
It would be PVP on agreed terms.
This is the stepping stone to all out PVP in 0.0 space.
What the PVP purists dont understand is, is that the learning curve for combat in 0.0 isnt steep. Its pretty much vertical. You can expect to lose alot of money learning.
Dueling and tournements would be 'breaking people in' getting people thinking the right way to win. They would be assured that their facing on somewhat agreeable terms, what ships , how many opponents. But they wouldnt be able to control the skill or modules their enemy has.
I think this system would provide a stepping stone to 0.0 PVP and soften the learning curve.
I just thought of a funny analogy. The PVPers opposing this kind of idea just remind me of a bunch of 15 odd football hooligans who mob one or two fellas on a friday night who are just out for a drink and laugh. Compared to people who want to Box and step in the ring.
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SilKKZ the3rd
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Posted - 2005.12.22 16:48:00 -
[42]
Good analogy Stogee. I really get the impression that some (not a majority) pvpers only want cannon fodder, not a capable oponent, hence, the 'come to 0.0 loose all you have and have 'fun' learning by being ganked' we are sometimes getting on the forums.
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sonho
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Posted - 2005.12.22 17:13:00 -
[43]
What about no?
The next thing after CCP releses the BG of EVE you will be asking for rewards for the winners of this BG...Sounds familiar?
Hey i got an ideia why not remove the death penalty because i lost my machariel fully fitted with gistii modules to a lowlife pirate in a typhoon ,it is only fair rigth CCP?
Five months pass and eve has only 5K people on server hey CCP wtf have you done you have destroied eve ..ohh noes ..
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Lord Draylon
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Posted - 2005.12.22 18:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: sonho
What about no?
The next thing after CCP releses the BG of EVE you will be asking for rewards for the winners of this BG...Sounds familiar?
Hey i got an ideia why not remove the death penalty because i lost my machariel fully fitted with gistii modules to a lowlife pirate in a typhoon ,it is only fair rigth CCP?
Five months pass and eve has only 5K people on server hey CCP wtf have you done you have destroied eve ..ohh noes ..
Another example of not being able to prove the proposed system would weaken the Eve experience.
Stop trying to make excuses on how this won't work and try to prove how it would weaken the EVE experience.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.22 18:38:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/12/2005 18:43:59
Originally by: Lord Draylon
...
BTW, are you an alt, or just very new to EvE? Doing beta and playing for years are two totally different things.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Lord Insidious
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Posted - 2005.12.22 23:33:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 22/12/2005 18:43:59
Originally by: Lord Draylon
...
BTW, are you an alt, or just very new to EvE? Doing beta and playing for years are two totally different things.
I did beta test and 6 months of gaming before I concluded this game had serious issues. So I left knowing that if I gave it long enough most things would be fixed (market, agents, etc.). I came back with a new account. I have done the CEO thing. I have done mining ops with ten players, I did as best I could with a broken market. I was there when MOO was griefing noobs in .8 and .9 space. I was there when CCP had to comen in uber battleships to quell the griefing in game. I was there when CCP decided to scatter to the winds a few exploitive players (stacked heat stamps etc).
So I figure my opinion is just as valid as someone who has been playing for years on end.
And once again I state..prove to me how this proposed system will take away from your elite playing.
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Chinsor
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Posted - 2005.12.22 23:50:00 -
[47]
you want t1 frig fights? organise a frigfest in your corp.
no need for some ghayy battleground or arena, which btw, i quit if one is ever introduced
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Lord Insidious
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Posted - 2005.12.22 23:56:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Chinsor
you want t1 frig fights? organise a frigfest in your corp.
no need for some ghayy battleground or arena, which btw, i quit if one is ever introduced
sunshine,
something tells me no one will miss you if you leave. Just a hunch.
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Gonada
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Posted - 2005.12.22 23:59:00 -
[49]
nor you , Lord
a big no to anything that sounds like instanced, battleground or anything along those lines.
thats what SISI is for, anyone who disagrees, is too lazy to get on it, period.
dont have the balls for real pvp where theres risk? too bad for you, this is the game , dont like, wow is recruiting.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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Lihnuz
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Posted - 2005.12.23 00:01:00 -
[50]
are they not planing to ad wow-like battlegrounds in kali?
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Eleska
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Posted - 2005.12.23 00:03:00 -
[51]
sort out a second install of eve and patch it to SISI
Get on sisi and there's your Combat Testing ground =)
hell take your whole corp on and have some fun, or even have a frig fight on Tranquility :)
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Stogee
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Posted - 2005.12.23 00:06:00 -
[52]
I dont like the idea of battlegrounds personally. If I want to play that ill just go play Tides of Blood or something. Why implement something like this? All you have to do is have two corps go to war and the entire Eve Universe is your battleground.
But duelling and tournement based structures supported by the game? defo! Could have corporate sponsered tournement fighters. Gives people something to bet on, something to follow with interest etc.
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Nahual
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Posted - 2005.12.23 00:10:00 -
[53]
Go use the test server!!
Go war dec a friendly empire corp in the same situation, have fights with people in your corp in empire.
Nah...would rather CCP was time with such a useless feature ;)
Nahual
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.23 00:28:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/12/2005 00:31:58
Originally by: Lord Insidious
And once again I state..prove to me how this proposed system will take away from your elite playing.
First, I am not an elite. Second, you havent been looking at the big picture. While, it may be correct to a certain extend encourate newbs to PvP, there is definitely nothing like the real thing.
1. Battlegrounds-like feature is already in-game, there is no need to specifically create one.
2. VR battle and non-VR battle are definitely two separate things. Having mass T1 frigates is almost as helpful as saying, good all graduated with some awareness of T1 frigate battles, now when they go into low secs feeling "big", they always ended up losing to non-frigates or frigates because life in VR is not the same as in EvE. More, "pls CCP, give us a non-frig. battleground for simulation, or blah..." Current system makes you "know" PvP. VR battle makes you *think that you know* PvP. There is a difference. One helps us to understand war and tactics. The other helps us to dictate what should happen given a situation.
3. By making a battleground, it may become too succcessful and you will get all the "newbs" crowded in one arena doing risk-free losses 24/7 leaving less ppl willing to go for real PvP. This will hurt EvE when it happens.
4. What is it so wrong with not having a battleground at the moment? What are you actually afraid of?
5. There is an old saying, "what makes you think that if you cant face death now, can you actually overcome facing death later?" I know that when I was a bit younger, ISKs making wasnt much and losing does hurt my pocket. Now, the more I grow older, my needs become more complicating, I do earn a lot than I was before but at the same time, each losses now varies between 1M to 300M per operation. So, if you cant face losing 1M to 10M when you are a newb PvPing, what makes you think you will be brave enough after spending time simulating, to face the real harsh world of EvE?
Now, isnt that enough prove/speculation? Best is for this lay to rest and never be mentioned again. When I was younger, I can see why older players are always against this idea but I prefer to sit beside and listen and observe. Now, after being a carebear, getting killed here and there by pirates, and doing PvPing and other aspects of EvE, I can see why this is really a bad idea. I hate to agree with the older players but there is some truth in what they say.
Let it rest please. This is a bad idea. In-game mechanics already have your "Battlegrounds", just go learn them and make use of them.
A good reason for example, can looting is now a criminal flag. I remembered when a newb looted an arbalest siege from a mission a long time ago. This feature would be neat but also has it problems. Now, instead of having haulers stealing from miners, ore thieves are using battleships to steal from miners. Instead of seeing alts, we are actually seeing the ppl behind alts. Same ****, different patch. Again, what makes you think this will be a good idea.
OK, time for me to leave this thread to rest forever. Bye.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.12.23 00:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lord Insidious
Originally by: Chinsor
you want t1 frig fights? organise a frigfest in your corp.
no need for some ghayy battleground or arena, which btw, i quit if one is ever introduced
sunshine,
something tells me no one will miss you if you leave. Just a hunch.
Eclipse, I will miss him. Stop asking him to leave pls.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Chinsor
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Posted - 2005.12.23 02:03:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Lord Insidious
Originally by: Chinsor
you want t1 frig fights? organise a frigfest in your corp.
no need for some ghayy battleground or arena, which btw, i quit if one is ever introduced
sunshine,
something tells me no one will miss you if you leave. Just a hunch.
i think ur the one who wont be missed,
ALT boy
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