yes i understand what he is saying, however if you notice what i am saying is that sure you land 3 volleys of missiles on him at the same time, how ever you are not going to apply the full damage, or any damage at all because of explosion velocity, your ship is outrunning the explosion, that's what i am getting at.


edit: and cheers :)

Your speed has nothing to do with how much damage the missile does; only your targets speed matters. The speed your ship is traveling at only matters in gun damage calculation.

ok im stupid, miss-read his post for some reason i thought he said that the enemy ship was going at 1.7km/s not his ship (sorry :P) but the point is still there, it is possible to move your ship to negate the enemy torp's damage

Uh, ok? So your logic is it's bad and so no one should use it instead of CCP fixing it? Furthermore you say that because CCP has not fixed it they never will? Some logic, lol! Of course they won't if people all think like that! It would be a relatively trivial change; I don't see what's to moan about.

The problem is that missiles don't miss, they just run out of range.

If you buff the cap missiles too much it becomes a game of insta-blap anything.

The easiest, and messiest way, is to change the phoenix to use hybrids, and give the moros different weapons (captal sentry drones?) to offset it.

Well, in one very unlikely (but possible) way. Citadel missiles COULD be considered way overpowered. Although for this to occur there would have to be some major shenanigans involved.

Let's say your Citadel torpedo thas a max range of 65km and rate of fire is 13 seconds.
Total alpha we can average at 140k for this example.

If by some bizarre turn of events you got starbursted or super bumped towards a target from max range at roughly the same speed as your torps (vicinity of 1750m/s?), you would arrive on top of your target at the same time as your first 2 volleys to hit, and 2 seconds before the 3rd volley hits.

This is roughly 420k damage in the space of 3 seconds. Or 140k dps.

This isn't possible with turrets.

:D

The problem is that missiles don't miss, they just run out of range.

If you buff the cap missiles too much it becomes a game of insta-blap anything.

The easiest, and messiest way, is to change the phoenix to use hybrids, and give the moros different weapons (capital sentry drones?) to offset it.

Well you can always have two ships use hybrids. But it seems unfair to caldari missile pilots that train all the way down the missile skill line to not be able to train capital stuff like everyone else. Missiles can still be smart-bombed even if you boost the hp (it would just take more people, eliminating the easiness of it) What annoys me is that fozzie has even admitted that the phoenix is underpowered but has not addressed it. It's not as though this is some basic frig; this is the endgame missile boat that cost 3 bill after fitting. Shouldn't they at least TRY to buff the citadel missiles?

Maybe you should wait and see what the capital rebalance brings?

or, reprocess your phoenix and build a real dread.

The problem is that missiles don't miss, they just run out of range.

If you buff the cap missiles too much it becomes a game of insta-blap anything.
.

Funny how your second statement entirely proves my point yet you are trying to zing me.

Well, in one very unlikely (but possible) way. Citadel missiles COULD be considered way overpowered. Although for this to occur there would have to be some major shenanigans involved.

Let's say your Citadel torpedo thas a max range of 65km and rate of fire is 13 seconds.
Total alpha we can average at 140k for this example.

If by some bizarre turn of events you got starbursted or super bumped towards a target from max range at roughly the same speed as your torps (vicinity of 1750m/s?), you would arrive on top of your target at the same time as your first 2 volleys to hit, and 2 seconds before the 3rd volley hits.

This is roughly 420k damage in the space of 3 seconds. Or 140k dps.

This isn't possible with turrets.

:D

The whole 'wait and see what they do with the thing' kind of still applies you know.

Fair, but don't you think this issue has been classified as a "wait and see" for a little too long?

Yeah, but given that the capital rebalance is coming soonTM, we at least know it'll be looked at one day.

The problem is that missiles don't miss, they just run out of range.

If you buff the cap missiles too much it becomes a game of insta-blap anything.

Maybe you should wait and see what the capital rebalance brings?

Yeah, NP man, I kind of got a bit brisk with you anyways. As for the buff their explosion velocity is now 30. Ok great. so in other words you wont even hit a moving capital for full damage. The moros does like 13-16k dps and the phoenix does like 10k (and thats damage fit faction bcus and ammo) add to that that missiles are inferior anyways cause the damage is delayed, and you have yourself an inferior dread. I say buffs are in order.

The moros does like 13-16k dps and the phoenix does like 10k (and thats damage fit faction bcus and ammo) add to that that missiles are inferior anyways cause the damage is delayed, and you have yourself an inferior dread. I say buffs are in order.

You realize, that Blasters (Moros) are pretty limited in Range and Tracking, while you apply damage evenly in your Phoenix?

The Phoenix is able to apply even damage at about 0-58 km, while the Moros only outperforms it at 5-35 km (in other words, the Phoenix outperforms the Moros at about half of it's range).

Besides of that, the Phoenix has the classical shield tank advantage: on the Moros you have to sacrifice tank for damagemods, while the Phoenix can fit more tank, while still being able to fit damagemods in the low-slots.

You realize, that Blasters (Moros) are pretty limited in Range and Tracking, while you apply damage evenly in your Phoenix?

The Phoenix is able to apply even damage at about 0-58 km, while the Moros only outperforms it at 5-35 km (in other words, the Phoenix outperforms the Moros at about half of it's range).

Besides of that, the Phoenix has the classical shield tank advantage: on the Moros you have to sacrifice tank for damagemods, while the Phoenix can fit more tank, while still being able to fit damagemods in the low-slots.

WHY CAN'T MORE INTERNET MISUNDERSTANDINGS BE LIKE THIS!!

Can your Moros be speed tanked by a carrier?

The limited range and tracking of the Moros however is not hindering it past being used at all. In fact the Moros remains one of the more popular choices as a Dreadnought due to the high damage output and ability to "blap" with tracking modules.

The Phoenix should in theory outperform the Moros past the optimal range of Blasters however a Moros with no tracking modules and perfect skills is 14+31 with Antimatter. Past the optimal you're still working on a chance to hit, just not perfect hits.
The Phoenix however is currently operating under that "not perfect hits" no matter the range as long as the target has speed, and due to missile mechanics has no benefits attacking battleships at all.

The Phoenix has the classical shield tank advantage but also suffers from massive capacitor needs for the tank as well as a lack of any implants to push tank up even higher.

While I am not a fan of breaking arguments or debates down like I am about to your logic in "Missiles are fine because they're better than blasters, Phoenix is better than Moros" is flawed because if were this the case we would see fleets of Phoenix being dropped and not fleets of Moros.

Blasters and the Moros have their limitations but this is part of what EVE should be, some weapons should have situational advantages over others. However the situational advantages of capital guns (even after their tracking nerfs) are still much higher than the citadel missile systems that the Phoenix is reduced to a "structure bashing" ship, a job which the others ships still perform well enough at and have the advantage of fighting should there be a counter drop or engagement.

Once again I will point out that most people are not asking for citadel missiles to become better than any of the capital guns, only that the gap be closed more so there is the option to use them. There are some basic numbers which could be altered on the missiles to get an effect much more in line with what is expected from a Dreadnought in the current state of EVE.

Faster travel times (to the same effect other missiles were recently changed)
More HP to survive firewalls (something capital guns don't have any issues with)
Better damage application to capital ships and battelships. (90% damage vs a moving carrier.