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Ned Tivianne
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.08.11 13:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
i have a venture at the moment and enough money for a procurer, worth getting or waiting for a venture?? |
PhatController
Mum Rider Alliance
30
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Posted - 2013.08.11 13:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Assuming you are solo mining in highsec, you would be better getting a retriever. |
Valhallas
New Eden Robotics
22
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Posted - 2013.08.11 16:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Procurer comes in useful in null sec where the local belt and anomaly rats are quite hard and can take down a retriever with ease, a procurer can tank this long enough to let your drones kill the rats in many cases.
But for high sec a retriever is better. I would tend to fit some kind of tank on it to deter casual ganking. A ganker might move on to an easier target if you have some kind of tank. |
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
369
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Posted - 2013.08.11 22:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
You can buy 2 Procurer hulls and some fittings for the price of one Retriever hull. What's the saying, don't fly what you can't afford to lose...
Though if all you can afford right now is a Procurer, go ahead and buy it. Tank it and use the increased profits from it, versus staying with the Venture, to fund a Retriever if you deice you want to take the risk of using a more expensive and more vulnerable ship for a marginally better profit than what the Procurer can provide. |
CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2013.08.12 02:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
The first and fast answer is ''go for the Retriever" Wich is the best ship for solo mining, however the tanking capabilities of the procurer are something to be considered if you mine in those systems where suicide ganking is a common thing.
Procurer tank is far superior to whatever you can try to do to tank a Retriever.
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Spergie Scrublord
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.08.12 02:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Klymer wrote:You can buy 2 Procurer hulls and some fittings for the price of one Retriever hull. What's the saying, don't fly what you can't afford to lose...
Though if all you can afford right now is a Procurer, go ahead and buy it. Tank it and use the increased profits from it, versus staying with the Venture, to fund a Retriever if you deice you want to take the risk of using a more expensive and more vulnerable ship for a marginally better profit than what the Procurer can provide.
Wise words. Listen to this man. Plus, you can use a Procurer to run level 4 missions with.
No, you can't really. I'm kidding. I just thought I'd toss some content about missions in for lulz!
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Fret Thiesant
Oregon Trail rising
31
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Posted - 2013.08.12 02:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
I dont know about flying a 30 mill ship a catalyst can 2 volley until you've plenty of isk to replace it.
Not worth it to fly a retriver for new miners imo go procurer. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
379
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Posted - 2013.08.12 07:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ned Tivianne wrote:i have a venture at the moment and enough money for a procurer, worth getting or waiting for another ship???
Procurer is well worth the money and should be the go-to barge for high and low sec, because it's relatively easy to tank to the point of unprofitable gank. Essentially, an untanked Retriever will always be a viable target for those seeking soft mining barges, but tanked Procurers are usually a no-go (and may in fact turn gankers off by the simple fact of being Procurers in the first place). You sacrifice some yield and ore hold, but it's a small price to pay for the relative safety it offers.
Tldr: not only is Procurer worth it, it should be your go-to ship for High Sec. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel
Templis Dragonaors
263
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Posted - 2013.08.12 09:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Procurer doesn't get quite as much yield (it only has two low slots to the Retriever's three, so the Retriever can fit more mining laser upgrades), and its ore hold is a flat 12000 m3 to the Retriever's hold of up to 27500 m3, so it can't loiter quite as long, but it's a brick to the Retriever's beer can. So it's basically a question of whether you're willing to trade off a lot of survivability for doubled loiter time and moderately increased yield-over-time. Your mileage will vary.
"Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..."
- Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Tydeth Gilitae
Magewright Artificers
19
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Posted - 2013.08.13 02:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
I went from Venture to Procurer because the Proc was the cheapest of the three barge hulls, and it is very good. Proc's single strip miner is still leagues better than the mining lasers a Venture fields, and you're going from 5k ore hold to 12k, with cargo and drone bays also being higher in the Proc.
High-sec Gankers do for the most part leave the tanked barge alone, especially if the pilot doesn't antagonize the combatant to give them enough reason to bring the necessary friends. I've seen posts by multiple self-professed gankers in which they admit to leaving Procurers and Skiffs alone on account of their massive shield tanks and their lack of support for afk mining. Even searching "Procurer" on that New Order blog only turns up kills in which it is the attacking ship.
You'll still want to keep the Venture, however. Its built-in free warp stabilizers without the penalty of the actual module will make it better for hurried retreats from lower security space if you ninja-mine for better ore, in addition to its smaller size and faster align-to-warp time. Ventures are also the only mining ship with a gas bonus. Plus if you ninja around in null or wormholes, and get caught and killed, the Venture is dirt cheap. |
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Red Dragon15
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.08.13 03:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
My experience, go with the Procurer. Better Tank, even if the Ore Hold is smaller resulting in more trips to the station. The Retty is good if you not going to tank it and just going for isk tanking, meaning trying to mine the value of the ship quickly before the gankers come at you. I cannot tell you the number of times I have been mining and seen several rettys being ganked by small ganking squads, then they look at my ship and just warp off. The major reason for this is that the Procurer isn't cost effective for them to gank. Even when I use a fit for max yield, it still has around 65k EFT....
1x MSM II
2x Adaptive Invul IIs
1x EM Ward Amp II
1x Thermal Dis Amp II
2x MLU II
3x Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Cost: @45m isk
Cap Stable with 65+ on all shield resists and 14k Shields....its a tough nut too crack.
Too hard for Catalyst and too inexpensive for Nados. They normally just pass me by and go out looking for more rettys or macks. |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel
Templis Dragonaors
266
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Posted - 2013.08.13 13:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Also don't forget that if a ganker does decide to have a go at your ship, you can overheat your hardeners and make the Procurer even more of a brick. Every extra second the ganker needs to keep at it is one more second for CONCORD to arrive.
"Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..."
- Niccolo Machiavelli-á |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
759
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Posted - 2013.08.13 19:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fret Thiesant wrote:I dont know about flying a 30 mill ship a catalyst can 2 volley until you've plenty of isk to replace it.
Not worth it to fly a retriver for new miners imo go procurer.
Its really not worth ganking any of the ships mentioned thus far but the procurer probably wont get ganked at all.
Eve is Real |
Q 5
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
146
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Posted - 2013.08.13 21:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
go for the procurer, it is your safest bet and will double your income compared to The Venture do not go to low sec or null or WH with it cause you will just lose it.
use it in highsec for about a month will give you all the profit you need. |
Auduin Samson
Do not disturb
Sanctuary Pact
98
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Posted - 2013.08.14 05:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Covetor: Hisec fleet mining
The covetor can generate the most output of the three, but its severely limited cargo hold means the hauling needs to be done by someone else. Otherwise all of your trips to station take a big chunk out of your mining time. When you have a fleet to mine with, there is no better option without getting into Hulks.
Retriever: Hisec solo mining
Very respectable mining output and absolutely massive ore hold means that it can get the most profit when you are both safe and alone. Limited tanking capabilities make it an easy target though. This will be your most profitable option if you're mining somewhere with few disturbances.
Procurer: Mining in dangerous territory
The procurer has the same theoretical output* as the retriever but a smaller ore hold. This means you will need to make more station runs, but thanks to its amazing ability to tank damage, you will be able to survive almost any NPC that spawns in your belt. This is the safest option.
*While on paper the retriever and procurer have the same output (2 + (2*.5) = 1 + (1*2) = 3 strip miners worth of output on both), the retriever will get more in practice. This is because the Procurer's laser draws so much ore per cycle, it is much more likely to dry up an asteroid quickly and run out before one of your mining cycles ends, causing time to be lost. While this isn't a very big issue, it is something that min/maxers (IE people who play Eve) like to take into consideration when calculating profit and output. |
Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
101
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Posted - 2013.08.14 11:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Auduin Samson wrote:*While on paper the retriever and procurer have the same output (2 + (2*.5) = 1 + (1*2) = 3 strip miners worth of output on both), the retriever will get more in practice. This is because the Procurer's laser draws so much ore per cycle, it is much more likely to dry up an asteroid quickly and run out before one of your mining cycles ends, causing time to be lost. While this isn't a very big issue, it is something that min/maxers (IE people who play Eve) like to take into consideration when calculating profit and output.
It means you have to use your survey scanner and that you can't AFK mine in one. Horrors!
. |
Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.08.14 17:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sure, the Retriever holds far more ore and mines faster, but the Procurer is faster (so you can cherry pick the belts if you want to) and has a tank that will discourage many opportunistic gankers.
Procurer is also way cheaper.
Get the Procurer then use it to make the money for a Retriever.
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MicDeath Titan
Titans Guild
20
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Posted - 2013.08.16 04:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJKBMxWqkg
To demonstrate the tank on a procurer.
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Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
105
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Posted - 2013.08.16 19:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
MicDeath Titan wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJKBMxWqkg
To demonstrate the tank on a procurer.
Now let's see the same test applied to a typically-tanked Retriever.
. |
Auduin Samson
Do not disturb
Sanctuary Pact
99
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Posted - 2013.08.16 19:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Auduin Samson wrote:*While on paper the retriever and procurer have the same output (2 + (2*.5) = 1 + (1*2) = 3 strip miners worth of output on both), the retriever will get more in practice. This is because the Procurer's laser draws so much ore per cycle, it is much more likely to dry up an asteroid quickly and run out before one of your mining cycles ends, causing time to be lost. While this isn't a very big issue, it is something that min/maxers (IE people who play Eve) like to take into consideration when calculating profit and output. It means you have to use your survey scanner and that you can't AFK mine in one. Horrors!
Absolutely true. Personally, I prefer the safety of more tank over a survey scanner, but to each his own. If you plan to stay in a safe part of hisec where you won't benefit as much from the procurer's ungodly tank though, you'll probably just jump for a retriever instead to capitalize on the bigger hold/more mining time. |
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Trudeaux Margaret
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
105
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Posted - 2013.08.16 22:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Auduin Samson wrote:Trudeaux Margaret wrote:Auduin Samson wrote:*While on paper the retriever and procurer have the same output (2 + (2*.5) = 1 + (1*2) = 3 strip miners worth of output on both), the retriever will get more in practice. This is because the Procurer's laser draws so much ore per cycle, it is much more likely to dry up an asteroid quickly and run out before one of your mining cycles ends, causing time to be lost. While this isn't a very big issue, it is something that min/maxers (IE people who play Eve) like to take into consideration when calculating profit and output. It means you have to use your survey scanner and that you can't AFK mine in one. Horrors! Absolutely true. Personally, I prefer the safety of more tank over a survey scanner, but to each his own. If you plan to stay in a safe part of hisec where you won't benefit as much from the procurer's ungodly tank though, you'll probably just jump for a retriever instead to capitalize on the bigger hold/more mining time.
The whole point, though, is that high sec is not safe, especially for new miners, and Retrievers are favorite targets of gankers:
https://zkillboard.com/ship/17478/losses/
In high sec when using a Procurer with its ungodly tank (especially if you're cap stable and have your hardeners on), a new miner can surely squeeze in that survey scanner if he wants to min/max profit and output like the rest of us. Who likes to watch the strip miner cycling on and on and on, knowing there's waste occurring?
. |
MicDeath Titan
Titans Guild
23
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Posted - 2013.08.16 22:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:MicDeath Titan wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJKBMxWqkg
To demonstrate the tank on a procurer.
Now let's see the same test applied to a typically-tanked Retriever.
Give me a fit to test.
Due to the so so many different ret fits in this thread, it is hard to see which one is 'typical'. |
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