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Khanid Voltar
EVE Protection Agency
Bloodline.
17
   |
Posted - 2013.08.13 00:11:00 -
[31] - Quote
Altessa Post wrote:A Dev mentioned at Fanfest 2013 that there are no plans to allow the Black Ops to warp cloaked because it would make them overpowered. While Devs say a lot at Fanfests, this one did so while being sober. So, it is probably not a relic of the past but a conscious design decision.
When Black Ops were first introduced on sisi they required cloaking L5, and could warp cloaked.
As in this thread there were back then many tears in case the route to adaption was not quite clear for the nubs. So when they were launched in game, 'a dev' said that they were releasing the ship pre-nerfed so they could ensure it wasn't too much of a pwn-mobile, and they removed the ability to fit cov ops cloaks.
Like many things in this game, the dev said they would 'keep an eye on it' ..... and like everything else back then this translated into 'got better things to worry about' ... but don't forget at this time there were no T3's with cloaky nullifer's. Since Black Ops BS were introduced a geometric tonne of a lot has changed.
So while many like to think that BOPS were not introduced with the ability to use cov ops cloaks for a reason, the reason is simply this - those that were worried about it now, were worried about it then, and they were the people that cried the loudest at the time.
Does it have a utility with out the cov ops cloak? Sure it does.
Does the utility justify the price tag? In my opinion not. |
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 00:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Giving a covops cloak to a ship with no lock delay after uncloaking and fairly high DPS is a serious problem. At least the covops Proteus gives you 6 seconds to escape before it can lock, the black ops can lock immediately. |
destiny2
Abh Academy
Abh Alliance
164
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 00:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Giving a covops cloak to a ship with no lock delay after uncloaking and fairly high DPS is a serious problem. At least the covops Proteus gives you 6 seconds to escape before it can lock, the black ops can lock immediately.
yeah except a battleship is pretty slow as well it could be out runned easily.
|
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
426
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 02:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Id like to know why a BO's would be overpowered if it could warp cloaked? Details. The Redeemer is a Navy Geddon with one less gun. It still does 1250 DPS, putting a covops cloak on that is absolutely ridiculous.
Now compare the tank....
....and consider you have to pack it to the gills to get anywhere. |
Evanga
Way So Mad
Axiomatic Dominion
73
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 07:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cov ops cloak would be epic but way too overpowered 
They should first look into t2 rebalance for the battleships .. hopefully the blops become a bit better then their t1 versions (ehp wise).. |
Khanid Voltar
EVE Protection Agency
Bloodline.
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 11:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Giving a covops cloak to a ship with no lock delay after uncloaking and fairly high DPS is a serious problem. At least the covops Proteus gives you 6 seconds to escape before it can lock, the black ops can lock immediately.
BS's have dismally slow lock speed. Yes this can be boosted with modules, but not to insta-locking speed.
Before you say remote sensor boosters, remember the ship offering the remote boosts needs to uncloak and lock the BS first... so no, the BS cannot lock instantly, it can only start to lock.
And because the ship was released pre-nerfed (because when the ship was designed it DID have a cov ops which was subsequently taken away without un-nerfing those pre-release stats) every slot on a BOPS BS counts, and there are not ample free slots for sensor boosters unless you are looking to gain a comedy lossmail.
It just seems like people say OMGWAYOVERPOWEREDCLOAKYBS and don't really consider the facts.
|
Janna Windforce
EVE University
Ivy League
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 12:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Khanid Voltar wrote:
BS's have dismally slow lock speed.
Especially when atm you are screwing your lockspeed by fitting non-covert cloak.
So here we have
1) Huge price tag
2) Weaksauce tank for BS
3) So-so firepower, with typical problems of dmg application of BS size guns
4) Boo scan res
5) Align and speeds of T1 BS (and BC speed if cloaked, how does that help? Imo bombers should have this bonus, as they spend much more time slowboating into positions)
Is ability to fit covert cloak too much? I don't think so.
P.S.: It would be neat to have a POS module working as (covert) cyno beacon, would save hassle with alts. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
426
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 13:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Janna Windforce wrote:
4) Boo scan res
.
Not to mention further boo scan res because of the stupid cloak....which makes crappy scan res even worse. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated
Executive Outcomes
87
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 16:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
I get the stinking feeling a lot of people here not only haven't flown a blackops, they also don't have a clue as to how it should be used. Not that I disagree they deserve some love, but:
- If you're warping out as a blackops BS, you shouldn't really be cloaked. You likely just ganked someone and your cap booster is cycling so that you can jump to an extraction cyno right after exiting warp.
- If you're warping anywhere, just cloak on landing. It's a battleship, it has smaller fleet members left for it to scout or tackle things.
Granted here, it could use one thing: a bonus negating scanres penalty. The scanres is already obnoxiously low.
As for the matter of gank&tank... to have both in line with T1 variants would hugely imbalance the Black Ops. Let's not forget the massive advantage it has: jump drive (not to mention undetectable cynos that last 1/10 of the cycle time etc.) and a portal generator. It's a battleship that can bypass whatever defences are between itself and the target with a single jump and without the risk of fielding a Titan to bridge it.
Given their role as covert harassment ships, Black Ops should probably be given a damage increase. Be the Stealth Bombers among battleships, fragile but able to kill off an isolated target very quickly.
As for the covert cloak, to think of it, there's a point to it being non-covert. If someone manages to catch one in the field, he deserves at least a shot at killing it. "Covert" does not mean "Completely uncatchable and invulnerable" it means "damn hard to catch if the pilot is good"
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet? |
destiny2
Abh Academy
Abh Alliance
165
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 02:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
after doing some small field tests with my widow in lowsec, a blackops to me kinda seems like a minnie titan in a way, you bridge and log off or in blackops case warp and dock.
as soon as you see widow on grid its dead before it locks anything.
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Tauranon
Weeesearch
228
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 02:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
destiny2 wrote:after doing some small field tests with my widow in lowsec, a blackops to me kinda seems like a minnie titan in a way, you bridge and log off or in blackops case warp and dock.
as soon as you see widow on grid its dead before it locks anything.
Its the medivac, not the marine. You send it in when the combat situation is sufficiently clear that you'll want to be able to extract rather than sacrifice the marines.
Its the tool that allows an attacker to move the point of attack fast enough to actually put pressure on an opponent, and can move a force to 3 or 4 objectives in a short session (ie send out multiple scouts, move to all of them). Otherwise the defenders can't be kept busy/pressured to make a mistake because of their interior lines/bridge network movement advantages.
It is not any problem at all to me that it is not a solowtfpwnmobile. The drive is by lore reasons large, and it doesn't fit into something smaller than a battleship. So its a modified and compromised battleship hull. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Fatal Ascension
427
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 03:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:destiny2 wrote:after doing some small field tests with my widow in lowsec, a blackops to me kinda seems like a minnie titan in a way, you bridge and log off or in blackops case warp and dock.
as soon as you see widow on grid its dead before it locks anything.
Its the medivac, not the marine. You send it in when the combat situation is sufficiently clear that you'll want to be able to extract rather than sacrifice the marines. Its the tool that allows an attacker to move the point of attack fast enough to actually put pressure on an opponent, and can move a force to 3 or 4 objectives in a short session (ie send out multiple scouts, move to all of them). Otherwise the defenders can't be kept busy/pressured to make a mistake because of their interior lines/bridge network movement advantages. It is not any problem at all to me that it is not a solowtfpwnmobile. The drive is by lore reasons large, and it doesn't fit into something smaller than a battleship. So its a modified and compromised battleship hull.
So near a billion for a covert portal with cargo extenders.
Gotcha. |
Andracin
Sickology
192
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 06:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Either most of the people in this thread have never flown a blackops or don't know how to use the blackops they fly. Don't try and fly it solo it will die. Drop a half dozen redeemers or panthers on anything and it will melt. If you expect resistance you need to set up your logistial/extraction plan prior to the drop. They can be a damn powerful tool if you know what your doing. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1138
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 17:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
Andracin wrote:Drop a half dozen redeemers or panthers on anything and it will melt.
Drop a dozen bombers supported by an Arazu Rapier and why not a Pilgrim on anything and it will die as fast but on top still cheaper than a single BO naked hull price.
That's the whole point of the main discussion about BOs and why the majority of those are used with cargo expander and cargo rigs.
If something Black Ops are in need of tons of love, many good ideas in this thread already:
-Increase cloak speed (300m/s -/+ currently)
-Cover Ops CLoak
-More DMG
-Better resist profile
-Increase fuel bay further, decrease fuel cost per ship further
Such a tough skill training ship for that little it's quite disappointing but they always seem overpowered when they drop on you at 6 or 10 vs single target, it's not and the simple fact you need that many to kill a single target tells a lot about it.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
destiny2
Abh Academy
Abh Alliance
165
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 23:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
drop a half dozen of t1 cruisers and anything would melt and still be cheaper then 1 BO'S |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1141
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 12:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
destiny2 wrote:drop a half dozen of t1 cruisers and anything would melt and still be cheaper then 1 BO'S
You need a titan to bridge those, bombers/reccons you bridge them with your BLOPs that's the point but what a heck of a point with those many skills on top of regular BS.
Worth it for the combat abilities? -certainly not, it succeeds but it's not the tool for smaller groups to harass bigger ones, they just harass random carebears like you can do in whatever place in eve be the guy solo, in wh or the largest coalition in the game, they're often used to disrupt isk farmers but not really to harass larger groups it's rather the other way around, if they ever spot things get hot don't worry, one click and they're all gone 6.5LY away -wooo so terrifying.
Worth it for the advantages you get on having one with bridging abilities and self sump to beacons/covert cynos? -absolutely
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1141
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 12:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:destiny2 wrote:after doing some small field tests with my widow in lowsec, a blackops to me kinda seems like a minnie titan in a way, you bridge and log off or in blackops case warp and dock.
as soon as you see widow on grid its dead before it locks anything.
Its the medivac, not the marine.
Yep also this, Widow is not a combat BLOPS, it can succeed of course it can but it's not really suited for anything else than send a couple missiles/torps on target but most importantly jam the crap out of them.
After drone Amps introduction Sin became really deadly, shield fitted it's just a gank machine, Redeemer is well known also for having tons of dps, Panther was already not bad at pulling dps and recent cruise changes might as well help a bit at applyied dps.
From what CCP Fozzie already "told" in some threads seems once they get there for balance punches BLOPs and Marauders might get variants of combat and support which means new models and ships, from there we can speculate a bit on what but how that's a good question.
Even with 2 of them being rather good they are only when in numbers if solo a frigate does an hilarious KM out of them.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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