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Lijah Reaper
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Posted - 2003.08.18 16:25:00 -
[1]
According to the new patchlog from Traveler:
Asteroids requiring deep core mining will require a tool that needs deep core mining skill?
What kind of asteroids will require deep core mining skill? Big ones? Ores that say (only found in deep cores of asteroids) like Nocxium? What kind of deep core mining tools will be available? Will the skill be available in the upcoming patch?
Deep core mining seems like a cool idea... I'm worried that people will freak out if it turns out that we can no longer mine some asteroids because they suddenly require "deep core mining". If, on the other hand, new asteroids are added in some areas that produce new types of ore (with new/different balances of minerals in them) or create new, long lasting asteroids (like deep core gneiss which could produce 10x as much per asteroid), I'm sure people could really go for that.
I like the new jump/dock restriction rules, where NPC pirates are no longer part of the restriction. I also think I like the fact that people who retaliate against agression can't go through the gates either... but I think the ingame explanation needs to be a little better now... I'm not sure how to phrase this. Additionally, since this will apply to all combatants... there should be SOME kind of escape method other than hiding and waiting near a planet somewhere. IE: Some sort of gate hacking skill/modules that allow combatants to jump or dock after a period of time dependent on the skill/module. That, or a jumpdrive that can jump a whole group within 1k.
No matter what these are interesting game changes on the way, I hope to hear more about them in the next patchlog from Traveler, as well as from CSM minutes for this week.
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John Zeppe
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Posted - 2003.08.18 16:56:00 -
[2]
Interesting...
Lets hope it's nothing stupid with mining 5 + astro <insert high level> as a requirement. 
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Lijah Reaper
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Posted - 2003.08.18 16:59:00 -
[3]
I wouldn't be surprised if it was exactly that :)
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Kennian
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Posted - 2003.08.18 17:30:00 -
[4]
it SHOULD be exactly that...
mineing 5 and astro 4 maybe...
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.18 17:32:00 -
[5]
"What kind of asteroids will require deep core mining skill?"
Mercoxit, mayhaps?..
"Mercoxit is a very unstable type of ore that is never found exposed in the open for long. It is only found buried deep inside basic asteroid rock and needs to be blasted free and mined quickly before it breaks down, using specialized mining techniques. Mercoxit is the only ore that yields the extraordinary Morphite mineral.
Primary Skill required: Deep Core Mining"
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Lijah Reaper
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Posted - 2003.08.18 17:41:00 -
[6]
Whoa. I never heard about this ore.
Sounds cool though. What will require morphite???
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.08.18 17:43:00 -
[7]
I'm afraid you'll have to ask at the CSM. CCP are the only ones who can decide what parts of their plans they want to reveal - some of them we dont even hear about till they're ready for testing.
Redundancy |
Drefsab
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Posted - 2003.08.18 17:45:00 -
[8]
Correct me if im wrong but isnt it true that the deep core mining skill isnt in yet? so then how are we supposed to test this new form of mining.
"Death Before Dishonor" |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.18 17:46:00 -
[9]
Edited by: j0sephine on 18/08/2003 17:47:42
"Sounds cool though. What will require morphite???"
I have no idea... the ore (and morphite) are in the eve-db database but the data is obviously incomplete -- for example, the lvl.2 blueprints i checked didn't have any material requirements filled.
Here's the morphite data, btw:
"Morphite is a highly unorthodox mineral that can only be found in the hard-to-get Mercoxit ore. It is hard to use Morphite as a basic building material, but when it is joined with existing structures it can enhance the performance and durability manifold. This astounding quality makes this the material responsible for ushering in a new age in technology breakthroughs.
Base Price: 32768" (megacyte x 4)
Oh, and the Deep Core Mining is stated to require Mining 5...
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John Zeppe
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Posted - 2003.08.18 17:54:00 -
[10]
Finally, mining seems interesting again. 
... If they don't screw up like I said, if it also applies to i.e. bistot.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.08.18 18:11:00 -
[11]
I was gonna ask about this. I don't mine myself, but the extra level of complexity involved is only a taster of things to come, I'm sure. And that's good. It will also sort the real miners from the part-timers. I hope this level of specialisation will happen with all the major 'professions'.
.
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Gurenus
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Posted - 2003.08.18 18:22:00 -
[12]
Hmm, very well, I'll ask devs about this. Sounds intresting in fact. Hope will be added new type of asteroids or even minerals. But such maining laser, should not be selling in market by NPC, it must as rare loot only.
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.08.18 18:25:00 -
[13]
Ohhhh sweeeeetttt. This is stuff that will make any hard core (err... deep core) miner drool a pool!
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Kapatha
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Posted - 2003.08.18 18:49:00 -
[14]
Well Said Drunkenmaster,
I agree that this will make the difference between the REAL miner and the others.
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Lijah Reaper
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Posted - 2003.08.18 18:51:00 -
[15]
I remember when the *real* miner was the one who started their character with astrogeology. I want to see how much the deep core "tools" cost and how difficult they are to find. Obviously this is a rhetorical question, as I am sure no one knows the answer except the devs themselves.
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John Zeppe
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Posted - 2003.08.18 19:34:00 -
[16]
 Quote:
Hmm, very well, I'll ask devs about this. Sounds intresting in fact. Hope will be added new type of asteroids or even minerals. But such maining laser, should not be selling in market by NPC, it must as rare loot only.
I already know two to be added!
Spodumain, Arkonor...
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Bashar
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Posted - 2003.08.18 20:42:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Bashar on 18/08/2003 20:46:17
 Sounds to me like they are adding the option to mine moons/planets for ore and that there is some sort of risk involved as the deep core drilling skill Special implies: 5% less chance of damage clouds per level. I guess If that is the case, they will have to get that "slowly growing roid" logic working first, so they can tweak it and apply it to planets and moons...after all can't go around popping the empty planet our stations are orbitting (cuz I'm free...free falling) and would be even worse for new planet to appear at downtime all full of ore again ;) Will actually make survey scanners useful...if a roid is there, its got ore...might not be much but there is some....with planets and moons you would have to scan to know if it's already been mined out recently since they wouldnt "pop" when empty.
(ok i know in current state survey scanner is usefull for AFK indy miners, and to non-empire miners for avoiding baby roids, but that's supposedly just a bug, and other than that they strike me as more a luxury/novelty item for the empty mid slot...)
regards,
Bashar Miles Teg
Shop Smart, Shop BasharMart! |
Gafton
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Posted - 2003.08.18 20:53:00 -
[18]
If they wanted to really make the deep core mining interesting, they could make the new ore invisible. The only way to find it would be to get a tech 2 survey scanner. This would then scan an area and tell you if the roid is there. Range would maybe be 10km, requiring multiple scans of a belt. From the description the life span of the roid would be short, making this task even more difficult. Since most large corps have no trouble keeping a 0.0 system cleared of pirates this would help even the playing field so to speak.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Varsuuk
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Posted - 2003.08.18 21:19:00 -
[19]
BAH - what tools do you peek at the data with I wanna play too!!! :)
Yam specialization will help the breadth of the game and professions in many ways...
Now, dig up the Idea Lab post on 'License to Kill' and the poor abused Bounty-Hunter profession for some ideas or hell if nothing like that ANYTHING to make it a profession and not a 'gateway' profession on way to an inadvertant and forced pirate career. (Due to the way it is implemented AND the lame sec increases now....eeep I think I am hijacking - someone STOP me before I hijack again!)
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eriq
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Posted - 2003.08.19 03:27:00 -
[20]
here's something maybe none of you has considered. maybe there is zydrine deep inside those jaspet roids or megacyte hidden inside dark ochre, mexallon in scordite, etc.
only a true deep core miner with the correct skills and tools is able to extract higher grade minerals from the ore we all know and love...
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Crypton
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Posted - 2003.08.19 05:52:00 -
[21]
mmm MegaCyte, Drools. Well hopefully whatever is planned for deep core mining I hope it will make the market a better place.
** hijacked Stav excuse #101 **
Quote:
dude read my lips, the entirety of m0o (all like 2 of us) was playing homeworld 2 all weekend
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:21:00 -
[22]
Humm...
Yes, to a degree, specialisation isn't a bad thing, but I really really really find accumulating wealth isn't that fast already, and don't intend to be a mining type all my game-bound carrier.
Its quite possibly the dullest means to make money there is in game pressently. Please don't make me be forced to spend years just to do it :S
Everytime I hear new skill, I think new rank for that skill, which means even longer to do something that is already massively dull, like press a key to turn a laser on.
Just cautious words about making mining highly-specialised, as you will also increase the time taken to be useful making this already dull carrier longer to become useful. Many people have already complained about the time taken for rewards in this one, its just something you should be careful on I think.
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Lijah Reaper
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Posted - 2003.08.19 18:50:00 -
[23]
I think there is a balance with how dull the career is and how much money you can make from it. Otherwise, no one would do the dull career.
The game needs miners in order to get the materials for all the things currently made in the game. The devs clearly plan on adding some of the production influence to traders and trading goods when those become part of production requirements for advanced goods.
I don't think that developer attention to a boring career like mining is a bad thing. By no means is this the only thing they are paying attention to, but perhaps they are trying to add a little more variety and interest in mining because that is currently a working part of the game that people do to earn money. Lots of people do mining, lots of people would be affected by a new deep core mining skill.
If you are worried that no matter what new mining skills are added people will continue to mine because other things are broken; this is indeed a possibility. Other careers (bounty hunting, trading, agents, more combat tweaks) are required. I think all players expect these things to be vastly improved over the coming months to various degrees, but it is a pleasant surprise that there is going to be a little more to mining as well.
Implimentation of player built/placed space objects will be a huge change to everything and is probably much more exciting than the addition of a new mining skill, but people have known that these items would eventually enter the game. Deep core mining, except to few, was unknown and a very surprising development.
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Jstek
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Posted - 2003.08.19 22:54:00 -
[24]
I STRONGLY AGREE that reqirements for all these new skills MUST BE HIGH, for example, astrology in my opinion should of required mining lvl 5 and lvl 5 science.
These new skills need to have lvl 5 requirements. Or up the amount of lvls then :)
I already know several peaple in the world of eve who have ALL the skills you can have at least to lvl 4! This goes completely agaisnt ccp intended. And i belive any new skills in the game must require a supstancal isk cost and training time. Like prerisits lvl 5 skills. Same with higher end moduals. however, tech 2 is not fully out atm anyways.
New skills are good. But remember, ccp wanted it to be specialation. For example, i liked greatly how they the drones thing. You couldnt use hvy drones and all till lvl 5 drones, same with interfacing.. there needs to be requiremetns like that in other parts of the tree.
Otherwise, everyone is going to be ending up like jack of all trades.. which is not cool.
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John Zeppe
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Posted - 2003.08.19 23:06:00 -
[25]
"I already know several peaple in the world of eve who have ALL the skills you can have at least to lvl 4!"
Excuse me...
Bull****. Even with ALL skills at rank 1 that's 10+ mil skillpoints. I don't know the exact amount of skills though, so I used about 300.
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Griskin Thor
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Posted - 2003.08.20 00:38:00 -
[26]
Here here for increased specialization. I'm a dedicated miner, encompasing mining, ore hauling, and refining, eventually branching into mobile refinery and possibly factory operation. Even with astrogeology out, there's only 4 skills that really distinguish my job, as opposed to dozens for combat characters. I'm all for additional skills with high requirements being added in to let that specialization mean something. By gum, if combat-dedicated characters can shoot stuff so much better than me, I should be able to mine stuff that much better than them, y'know?
Just a quick wrap-up of the info available so far:
Mercoxit is the new ore, apparently found deep inside basic asteroids. ie. you can find it in 1.0 space, but you have to blow up low-end rocks to do it, and for that you need DCM skill. It's a 16m3 ore, like bist and ark. Also, Mercoxit has damage stats and an area effect listed, 50 points of every damage type in a 5km range. Meaning you're gonna get zapped trying to mine it if you're not careful.
Morphite is the mineral gained from refining Merc. From the description it's used as a trace mineral in Tech 2 manufacturing. This sounds like the 'tools' the devs have mentioned that would be needed for Tech 2 manufacturing.
Deep Core Mining skill is Rank 6 (meaning it takes 6 times as long as normal to train) and requies Mining 5. It's listed as giving a 5% less chance of damage clouds per level. From this it sounds like the higher your DCM skill, the less you get zapped by that icky damage effect.
I'd assume that initial deep core mining tools are going to have a range of under 5km, to insure that you can't just hang back outside of damage range and avoid the risks. Only time will tell, since I've been unable to find any DCM equipment in the database.
Griskin Thor
Chief Operations Officer
>Lightwave Enterprises<
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"Oh yeah? Well, back in my day we had to mine omber with our teeth! And walk back to the station to sell it. Up the gravity well. Both ways!" |
Severus Trajan
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Posted - 2003.08.20 09:48:00 -
[27]
Quote:
I already know several peaple in the world of eve who have ALL the skills you can have at least to lvl 4! This goes completely agaisnt ccp intended.
Eh? I think you are plain wrong about what CCP intended. Otherwise, how come they didn't implement various career choices that only enables certain skills/levels?
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.08.20 12:22:00 -
[28]
this is funny and all, but how will adding a new rock that can only be mined by those ingame for quite some time be helping things any? a new mineral at the same progression (x4 previous mineral's price) is going to go a long way towards.... making all the rich people far richer. 
I'm betting there's some thought that this will take the higher-end operations away from n00b space..
It won't. The scouts will look for the rare stuff and the basic roidfields will still be stripped. When the rare stuff's found there won't be enough to draw the miners far enough from n00bspace long enough. I don't get it. I suppose this 'has to' be added as it's going to be a requirement for higher tech-level items... it just doesn't seem to be the help the player manufacturing base needs.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.08.20 13:14:00 -
[29]
Whilst a new mining skill doesn't exactly make my heart flutter in excitement, it does sound interesting - especially the idea that AFK miners might end up sitting in a corrosive cloud of acid if they pick the wrong asteroid
Still, more ultra-high pre-requisite skills are really welcome. It's only after I got all the skills I want to use up to 3,4 and 5 that I really had to make some tough decisions on how to train. Sure, I might have thought 'that can wait until tomorrow' but not until now have I thought that if I go for one thing that another will have to wait for a very long time - possibly forever. For example I'm currently training up the pre-reqs for Jump Drive Ops (3 level 5s, fortunately all rank 1s) - but I'm also torn between that and upping my combat skills, or going for Gallente Indi 5, or getting PE 5 or refining or drones 5. All are tempting, but I know that if I go down certain routes it's just not going to be worth it to then go back and invest lots of time training them up too - at least not for several months anyway. These specialisations will make people's characters more unique and really add colour to interactions, rather than most people's skill levels being purely linked to how long they've been playing.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Riddari
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Posted - 2003.08.21 16:55:00 -
[30]
Quote:
I already know several peaple in the world of eve who have ALL the skills you can have at least to lvl 4!
Amarr/Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar battleship lvl 4?
Amarr/Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar industrial lvl 4?
Energy/Hybrid/Projectile large turret lvl 4?
Nope.. not within the current time.. I have a lot of lvl 4 and quite a few lvl 5 but it will take me weeks to get more to lvl 4
¼©¼
a history |
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Wolf Leader
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Posted - 2003.08.21 19:19:00 -
[31]
*Thinks about pirating an indy force to deep space to deep core mine returning with a full load of 4x expensive mega* OOOOOOOOOOO Someone pinch me im gonna pass out
But im a nice guy..... |
Jojin
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Posted - 2003.08.21 19:33:00 -
[32]
I hope the new skills do require level 5 prerequisites.
I was rather disappointed to see Astrogeology only needing Mining Level 4. True, it does also require science at level 4, but the bonus is just like the Mining bonus (5%/level). What is the incentive to reach mining level 5?
I assumed it would be similar to the Drone skill and Drone Interfacing.
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Kapatha
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Posted - 2003.08.21 20:26:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Kapatha on 21/08/2003 20:27:31
Glad to see most serious gamers understand the criticial and vital use of miners. The cornerstones of the game starts with us.
The requirement should be high (mining 5 Astro 4 or 5 and science 4 at least)
Most weekend miners wont really need this but for hard core miners like myself, this is making a niche for us and also will eventually stimulate the market for specialized Ore and Minerals.
the incentive you say ? it's all about yield, how much can you crunch and how fast 
my 2 isk
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Allaina
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Posted - 2003.08.22 05:17:00 -
[34]
Quote:
here's something maybe none of you has considered. maybe there is zydrine deep inside those jaspet roids or megacyte hidden inside dark ochre, mexallon in scordite, etc.
only a true deep core miner with the correct skills and tools is able to extract higher grade minerals from the ore we all know and love...
Nice theory except that you only get minerals from ore when you refine. No amount of mining should ever bring out minerals from ore. :)
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feroci0us
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Posted - 2003.08.22 05:58:00 -
[35]
hmm..
** Proud Member of the Fountain Alliance **
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Dodgy Dave
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Posted - 2003.08.22 07:40:00 -
[36]
Maybe CCP should worry about getting the content in game that was expected at release or promised soon after before they start posting "tempters" to keep those losing interest finding something else to entertain them (if mining can be considered "entertaining"). Why else bother bringing up something new when the content advertised on the box still isnt in game yet?
ETA on DCM? I'll put my Isk on the other side of Xmas (2004???) - dont hold your collective breath.
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Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2003.08.22 13:59:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 22/08/2003 14:11:52
Quote:
*Thinks about pirating an indy force to deep space to deep core mine returning with a full load of 4x expensive mega* OOOOOOOOOOO Someone pinch me im gonna pass out
I guess that's why I'm not too intested in this whole idea. Hell, Bistot mining isn't even worth it anymore, considering that most of the work is long trips in helpless ships (like pretty much all indys are...), trips which are 95% boring as crap, and 5% (hopefully less) terrifying and irritating (since most have left a decent cruiser or BS at home and climb into an indy with a feeling quite similar to a M-1 Tank captain having to take a bicycle ride in Baghdad).
I've been shot up a few times, lost a cruiser to NPC pirates once (my own fault) and an indy to a lone Blackbird (which is irritating as hell). What it comes down to is that I don't bother going into <0.5 space in an indy anymore. I'm not scared to go there, but I go in a cruiser with MWD and some ECCM, and ASAP I'll be going there in a BS. At least then I'm not helpless.
I have heard of a lot of peeps just quitting hauling. It will have economic implications, and I suspect that PC pirates will have less and less business as the weeks go by, if all they do is camp gates that are useful for trade or ore hauling. They should also realize that as the danger of hauling goes up, haulers are leaving their loot equipment at home anyways and flying with expanders/burners/etc that can be bought on the market so that they don't lose irreplaceable kit to a camper force.
Dunno what will fix this. We need something equally or more interesting for peeps to do than pirating PC players. Maybe more interested NPC pirate options (like pirate stations that can be blown up in huge ops and yield super loot and/or lvl 2 BPs?).
And just to comment on what Harlequin said about noobs, we are still in a situation where most changes to game play favour players who have been here the longest and those in mega-corps. Can you imagine what it's like to be on your first day today, flying about in a noob ship with a basic laser and watch a guy in a Mega fly by (or pod you)?
Not to mention trying to become a fighter now, and discovering that you pretty much *can't* get good loot weapons anymore, while long-time rat hunters and PC pirs have hangers full of top-grade loot from before the table-crippling patch?
We're going to lose the game for lack of new players, I'm afraid...
Originally by: Selim
Cool, congrats.
Oh, stupid idea by the way.
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JGR Mao
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Posted - 2003.08.23 11:35:00 -
[38]
Edited by: JGR Mao on 23/08/2003 11:39:35
Woooo
CCP has done it again, got people all excited abt things to come soon(tm).
I love the idea.
But.......Really....
Imho it would be way better to start implementing some of the things promised at launch (stations,implants,interbus etc)instead of starting to generate entirely new skills and half decent attempts/events to introduce new tech¦s.
CCP, come on, u know u can do better than this.... Focus, would u , plzzzzzzzzz |
Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.08.23 14:50:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Imho it would be way better to start implementing some of the things promised at launch (stations,implants,interbus etc)instead of starting to generate entirely new skills and half decent attempts/events to introduce new tech¦s.
This always comes back to the question of different areas of responsibility. A programmer needed to work longterm on these other things may not be the same person who is implementing this.
I'm afraid that it's naive to think of a company with multiple programmers as being one programmer who switches his or her attention from and to single projects, especially when some things can be done by game designers who don't have to be experts at implementing DirectX graphics engines in order to do these things.
Redundancy |
Stoli
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Posted - 2003.08.24 04:29:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Stoli on 24/08/2003 04:31:51
Redundancy,
Yes, there are separate areas of responsibility, but it is the responsibility of CCP as a whole to meet the expectations of their customers who bought the game based on promised elements of the game that have not yet been introduced (spoken from the point of view of a R/L service industry manager).
You are correct to point out that individuals have their particular areas that require their undivided attention. However, SOMEONE should be co-ordinating the whole thing, and giving direction to the individuals who are concentrating on the specifics - and the sum of those efforts should be directed towards meeting what was promised to the customers. While adding NEW items is a fantastic thing, if you disappoint the first-time buyer by lacking what was promised on the box...you won't have them around long enough to be able to impress them with these additional points.
The BASIC foundation of customer service - don't promise more than you can deliver, and deliver AT LEAST what you have promised...and I think that this is the point that Mao was trying to make.
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Talhlia
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Posted - 2003.08.25 01:40:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Asteroids that need to be deep core mined now cannot be mined unless the tool used to mine them has the deep core mining skill as a requirement.
-- from 1173 change log
Do Miner II's require the DCM skill in the next patch??? Or will there be pirate drop mining lasers available???
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Halo Jones
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Posted - 2003.08.25 08:10:00 -
[42]
Quote:
I'm afraid that it's naive to think of a company with multiple programmers as being one programmer who switches his or her attention from and to single projects...
That wasn't the original point. The original point suggetsed that now approaching a full four months after release, it might be a good idea if the game contained the content clearly advertsied on the box.
In addition, any sign of a BUGFIX ROADMAP, I dont mean the stroy roadmap, just a bug fix one. Such as corp taxes and corp wars?
Oberon Incorporated. |
GraveDigger
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Posted - 2003.08.30 00:28:00 -
[43]
Bump... next patch? please! |
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