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Luxi Daphiti
Biotech Transtellar INC
15
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Posted - 2011.10.29 14:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
Loney wrote:As one of those "Dirty Hoarders" i would be in favor of paying some kind of Hoarder tax, or something like the Federal Tax system where everyone ingame pays a Percentage to CONCORD monthly. Say 1-2% of your entire net worth monthly, and if you didn't have the ISK you would get a negative ballance and you have to be forced to sell your 100b in assets or keep enought isk on hand to pay the taxes. This would also solve the issues of "inactive accounts / Corps" with the idle isk, and be able to keep the system CLOSED.. Taxing net worth seems like a just idea if we were to go with such a closed system. Although I can see problems with calculating the net worth, as the base price of some assets are far lower then the retail value. Especially with faction and officer modules. You could hold 100bn in assets yet the game may only recognize them as a few hundred million ISKs worth. meaning you'll be taxed far lower then what you should (also opens up a sort of loophole for rich players!) |
Cassina Lemour
Staner Industries
13
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Posted - 2011.10.29 14:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
A 'hoarding' tax would be unworkable because it would punishes players with a high velocity as much as those with a low velocity, worse when you consider transaction taxes and fees.
The biggest issue is that CONCORD has no economic rent to cover bounties, unless you can propose something to fulfil that role there is no point tinkering around the edges and this idea is dead in the water. |
Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
8
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Posted - 2011.10.29 15:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
Loney wrote:Tasko Pal wrote:While I can profit despite a fixed amount currency, I think the hoarding problem will overcome any amount of initial supply. And we ignore the players who already have massive amounts of isk. There will be whine threads.
I think a currency with modest inflation is better. It encourages people to use that isk rather than sit on it. WIth fixed amount currency, a viable strategy is to simply sell off everything you own and come back in a few years. That shouldn't be a guaranteed profit IMHO. As one of those "Dirty Hoarders" i would be in favor of paying some kind of Hoarder tax, or something like the Federal Tax system where everyone ingame pays a Percentage to CONCORD monthly. Say 1-2% of your entire net worth monthly, and if you didn't have the ISK you would get a negative ballance and you have to be forced to sell your 100b in assets or keep enought isk on hand to pay the taxes. This would also solve the issues of "inactive accounts / Corps" with the idle isk, and be able to keep the system CLOSED.
That would remove my objection to the plan as long as the tax was just applied to the wallet and not general assets. Then it would be equivalent to modest inflation (without the risk of greater inflation). |
Luxi Daphiti
Biotech Transtellar INC
15
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Posted - 2011.10.29 15:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tasko Pal wrote:That would remove my objection to the plan as long as the tax was just applied to the wallet and not general assets. Then it would be equivalent to modest inflation (without the risk of greater inflation). If assets aren't included you could 'convert' all liquid ISK into assets before the tax to avoid it. Making it rather redundant.
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Mantra Achura
Community for Justice BricK sQuAD.
3
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Posted - 2011.10.29 17:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
Luxi Daphiti wrote:Tasko Pal wrote:That would remove my objection to the plan as long as the tax was just applied to the wallet and not general assets. Then it would be equivalent to modest inflation (without the risk of greater inflation). If assets aren't included you could 'convert' all liquid ISK into assets before the tax to avoid it. Making it rather redundant.
That's the goal of the tax: reducing the amaount of money in personal wallets. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
61
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Posted - 2011.10.29 18:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cassina Lemour wrote: The biggest issue is that CONCORD has no economic rent to cover bounties, unless you can propose something to fulfil that role there is no point tinkering around the edges and this idea is dead in the water.
Concord does not have to pay bounties in ISK. It could be Concord LP, it could be nothing at all too. There does need to be a mechanic to get ISK back into the player side of the economy away from the NPCs, but it does not have to be concord.
Since this entire conversation is just academic, as we all know CCP won't do this, the sky is the limit on ideas. |
Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
8
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Posted - 2011.10.30 05:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
Luxi Daphiti wrote:Tasko Pal wrote:That would remove my objection to the plan as long as the tax was just applied to the wallet and not general assets. Then it would be equivalent to modest inflation (without the risk of greater inflation). If assets aren't included you could 'convert' all liquid ISK into assets before the tax to avoid it. Making it rather redundant.
But CCP wouldn't have the leeway to create a massive isk source like it does today. That's really the point of these sorts of measures. And I don't think much of a tax on assets. Inflation currently encourages people to do something with their money other than hold onto it. Valuation of assets is uncertain, at best. And forcing trades (such as would be required, if your wallet went negative), has ugly side-effects.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
62
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Posted - 2011.10.30 15:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tasko Pal wrote:Inflation currently encourages people to do something with their money other than hold onto it.
First let me say I do not disagree with this at all. My point below is that, there are other things that encourage the exercise of wealth in the form of money, other than inflation.
In a game like Eve, does not also the allure of getting more wealth by way of buying what is low and selling it high encourage activity? Even the simple spread trade has many participants. Spreads would likely be lower under a fixed monetary system, spreads and volitility tend to decrease with a steady monetary base.
There are also trends, political (war) events in Eve that also move markets. CCP changes BPOs, introduces new ships, goons or others go off on a rampage. These events add some variability to the environment and the markets. Those who know how to position would stand to gain. Eve would likely see just as many market manipulation attempts as well.
The biggest concern, for me anyway, is ISK that lands in inactive wallets, and how to get it back into the system along with the ISK that NPCs collect via the sinks. |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.10.31 11:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Cassina Lemour wrote: The biggest issue is that CONCORD has no economic rent to cover bounties, unless you can propose something to fulfil that role there is no point tinkering around the edges and this idea is dead in the water.
Concord does not have to pay bounties in ISK. It could be Concord LP, it could be nothing at all too. There does need to be a mechanic to get ISK back into the player side of the economy away from the NPCs, but it does not have to be concord. Since this entire conversation is just academic, as we all know CCP won't do this, the sky is the limit on ideas.
The main problem I see with this idea is not economic so much as one of game mechanic. At a certain point the primary mover of the Eve economy is players. People leave new people come in. An awful lot of the new players will not understand how to use the new LP market. Especially (if you can remember back then) while trying to figure out how to make these blasted internet spaceships work. Everyone who is experienced in the game could figure out how to use the LP market no problem. But a newcomer to the economy is going to need a day job to get their feet wet. I think I have mined less than a dozen times (just thinking of any other entry-level job) if I had to mine up my first BC I likely would not have stuck around. Call me a CareBear but every captain of industry, pirate, sov CEO and ninja in the game came in with a noob ship and a civilian gun. The learning curve here is not shallow. |
thekiller2002us
WE FIGHT Noir. Mercenary Group
13
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Posted - 2011.10.31 14:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
i can only see a massive gap increasing between wealthy players and the rest of the playerbase. |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1374
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Posted - 2011.10.31 19:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
what a stupid idea, managing to be even dumber in a game than irl |
Barakach
R-ISK EVE Trade Consortium
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 20:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
thekiller2002us wrote:i can only see a massive gap increasing between wealthy players and the rest of the playerbase.
isk faucets like incursions are causing massive inflation. really, it's the greed of the masses that causing the problem.
The good news is isk faucets only output at a fixed rate. This means inflation will start to slow down.
The other good news is traders make money based on percentages, this means if we keep busy, our wealth will increase rapidly. Anyone can be a trader in this game. |
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