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Maureen Biologist Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.28 12:37:00 - [1] - Quote right, i've had enough of my mission maelstrom and i want to try something different. I only have t2 autocannons and minmatar ship skills, I want something to fly level 4 missions in that doesnt need a cap booster, doesnt need another factions ship skills (im looking at you machariel) and doesnt require full use of split projectiles/missiles to get a respectable dps. any ideas? i've been looking at tempest (or tempest fleet) but i cant seem to find anything im happy with. any suggestions>?
Songbird 35	Posted - 2011.10.28 13:08:00 - [2] - Quote vargur- as an added bonus you get extra falloff so 40 km is no longer the limit. OTOH maelstrom is perfectly good incursion ship - make it shiny and you won't even have to use cap booster since reps come from outside
Ethan Blue Non Entity 0	Posted - 2011.10.28 13:08:00 - [3] - Quote Maureen Biologist wrote: right, i've had enough of my mission maelstrom and i want to try something different. I only have t2 autocannons and minmatar ship skills, I want something to fly level 4 missions in that doesnt need a cap booster, doesnt need another factions ship skills (im looking at you machariel) and doesnt require full use of split projectiles/missiles to get a respectable dps. any ideas? i've been looking at tempest (or tempest fleet) but i cant seem to find anything im happy with. any suggestions>? First of all, I understand your question. The answer is No. As far as AC ships, Maelstrom > Fleet Issue Tempest. The next upgrade on your path is the Machariel. I know that is not what you want to hear, but Gallente BS 4 won't take you more than 2 weeks and TOTALLY worth it. Even if you take it all the way to Vargur, Machariel is still arguably better.
Maureen Biologist Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.28 14:18:00 - [4] - Quote bah, i dont really want to go the mach route. i cant seem to make a fit that i'm happy with that doesnt involve buying at least LG crystals. (this is just a mission running alt). I'm just the min bs 5 from vargur, so thats another month away. baaah.
Alara IonStorm RvB - BLUE Republic 226	Posted - 2011.10.28 14:35:00 - [5] - Quote A long shot but perhaps a Sleipnir. [Sleipnir, Mission] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Gistum B-Type Medium Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M Small Tractor Beam I Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x3
1-Up Mushroom Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 52	Posted - 2011.10.28 14:46:00 - [6] - Quote Blitzing in Sleips is really fun and good LP 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!
Maureen Biologist Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.28 14:49:00 - [7] - Quote I'm 62 days away from sliep (8 days left on min cruiser 5)... but out of interest, why arties and not acs on it?
Songbird 35	Posted - 2011.10.28 14:49:00 - [8] - Quote sleipnir is the worse ship for missions when you compare it to maelstrom.
Cambarus Clearly Compensating The Dark Triad 14	Posted - 2011.10.28 14:50:00 - [9] - Quote Why are you so against the mach? Gal BS 4 doesn't take long and the difference in performance is HUGE. The vargur is also a good choice, but the mach is better at damn near everything. Also, why are you surprised that people are telling you to go mach/varg? You're using a mael, want ACs, and want to upgrade. The mach and the varg are literally the only 2 ships in the game that put out more pain with ACs than a mael (excluding caps obviously) It's also worth noting that you don't permanently run the booster on a mach. Hell, with good skills you won't even NEED a booster for most missions, your speed and potential range are your tank. EDIT: don't get a sleip. It is literally worse in every way possible to a mael for lvl 4s, with the possible exception of that buzzkill mission.
Songbird 35	Posted - 2011.10.28 15:09:00 - [10] - Quote the new 'nado BC will have same stats as varg but no drones. Wait a month and get that :)
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2011.10.28 15:11:00 - [11] - Quote Cambarus wrote: Why are you so against the mach? Gal BS 4 doesn't take long and the difference in performance is HUGE. The vargur is also a good choice, but the mach is better at damn near everything. Also, why are you surprised that people are telling you to go mach/varg? You're using a mael, want ACs, and want to upgrade. The mach and the varg are literally the only 2 ships in the game that put out more pain with ACs than a mael (excluding caps obviously) It's also worth noting that you don't permanently run the booster on a mach. Hell, with good skills you won't even NEED a booster for most missions, your speed and potential range are your tank. EDIT: don't get a sleip. It is literally worse in every way possible to a mael for lvl 4s, with the possible exception of that buzzkill mission. ^This Sleipnir is a downgrade from Mael. The choice is between Mach and Vargur. Vargur takes longer to train due to BS lvl5 + awu lvl5.
Alara IonStorm RvB - BLUE Republic 226	Posted - 2011.10.28 15:27:00 - [12] - Quote Maureen Biologist wrote: I'm 62 days away from sliep (8 days left on min cruiser 5)... but out of interest, why arties and not acs on it? 3 Times the Range, less ammo used less of your dmg is in falloff. Both are good. I use a 1400mm Maelstrom as my primary mission boat with a set of Auto Cannons and an AB for close Range Missions. I switch between the 2 for say 1400mm if the mission would go quicker one shoting Cruisers 80KM out, or if the enemy starts at 50km ant they are all rushing to get to 20km. I am going for the Sleipnir because I plain can not stand Battleships and all my skill is in Sub BS.
Songbird 35	Posted - 2011.10.28 15:37:00 - [13] - Quote The sub bs boat for missions is the tengu with 750 dps. Until the new tier 3s come out you won't be able to get much more than 400-500 DPS out of a sub BS. Varg and mach will give you 1000 dps, we recommend them because they're 2 times better than the rest that's out there.
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 63	Posted - 2011.10.28 16:18:00 - [14] - Quote Maureen Biologist wrote: bah, i dont really want to go the mach route. i cant seem to make a fit that i'm happy with that doesnt involve buying at least LG crystals. (this is just a mission running alt). I'm just the min bs 5 from vargur, so thats another month away. baaah. Keep looking then. I don't think anyone really suggests crystals on a mission Mach. The tank numbers might strike you as low, but this is one ship where you really don't need to tank that hard. I get by more than adequately with an EFT 476 omnitank (69 sustained; cap lasts 1 minute 46 seconds). And it just doesn't have issues, even when I occasionally do something really, really dumb.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2011.10.28 16:27:00 - [15] - Quote Zhilia Mann wrote: Maureen Biologist wrote: bah, i dont really want to go the mach route. i cant seem to make a fit that i'm happy with that doesnt involve buying at least LG crystals. (this is just a mission running alt). I'm just the min bs 5 from vargur, so thats another month away. baaah. Keep looking then. I don't think anyone really suggests crystals on a mission Mach. The tank numbers might strike you as low, but this is one ship where you really don't need to tank that hard. I get by more than adequately with an EFT 476 omnitank (69 sustained; cap lasts 1 minute 46 seconds). And it just doesn't have issues, even when I occasionally do something really, really dumb. 500m/s speed with ab, plus sig 33% smaller than Vargur, Mach can speed tank better than any other BS except Panther. It also has one more slot (5 mid + 7 low = 12) compared to Vargur (6 mid + 5 low = 11). Having one more slot, while taking less dmg, much higher speed, plus slightly more dps and range, Mach's tank works just fine in practice.
Maureen Biologist Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.10.28 16:51:00 - [16] - Quote okok, the reason i dont like the idea of mach is that i can only seem to get about 300 all lvl 5 (which this cahracter is not in the first place) burst tank out of it using a gist A type large booster (got one lying around), a cnavy shield boost amp, and an em hard+invul. not much more with, for instance, a pith a-type hardener. Im familiar with low tank values, i have much experience on other characters using a tengu for lvl 4's that perma runs about 250dps tank and never has issues in lvl 4's so maybe this is me just not having the confidence in a bs's ability to actually speed tank? I mean, i've not tried it first hand, and it'd be a pricey mistake to make. I'm not suprised that people are suggesting the mach/varg, i just wanted to know if i had missed any options.
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2011.10.28 17:04:00 - [17] - Quote Maureen Biologist wrote: okok, the reason i dont like the idea of mach is that i can only seem to get about 300 all lvl 5 (which this cahracter is not in the first place) burst tank out of it using a gist A type large booster (got one lying around), a cnavy shield boost amp, and an em hard+invul. not much more with, for instance, a pith a-type hardener. Im familiar with low tank values, i have much experience on other characters using a tengu for lvl 4's that perma runs about 250dps tank and never has issues in lvl 4's so maybe this is me just not having the confidence in a bs's ability to actually speed tank? I mean, i've not tried it first hand, and it'd be a pricey mistake to make. I'm not suprised that people are suggesting the mach/varg, i just wanted to know if i had missed any options. It depends on damage profile. Against EM, you can get more out of it by running 3 hardeners and dropping amp. Although against EM, Vargur won't really do better, as least not if you preserve the same number of gyros and te/tc for gank. That said, speed tanking a Mach won't work nearly as well as a tengu, it's bigger and slightly slower.
Captain Nares O3 Corporation 3	Posted - 2011.10.28 17:07:00 - [18] - Quote Vargur. Better for l4's than Mach imo. Bad thing about it is that marauder skill is useless for anythig xept PvE. Good thing is that lvl4 is already OK.
Orlacc Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2011.10.28 17:08:00 - [19] - Quote You would be foolish not to go from Mael to Mach if you enjoy projectile BS.
Captain Nares O3 Corporation 3	Posted - 2011.10.28 17:26:00 - [20] - Quote Orlacc wrote: You would be foolish not to go from Mael to Mach if you enjoy projectile BS. I can't enjoy Mach on lvl4 coz of low tank/necessity to fit a capbooster, and short lock range. Mach is exellent PvP ship, but overrated PvE ship. Here is sample Vargur fit. Cheap and effective: [Vargur, Sample 1] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Gist B-Type 100MN Afterburner Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
stoicfaux 340	Posted - 2011.10.28 17:38:00 - [21] - Quote Maureen Biologist wrote: I only have t2 autocannons and minmatar ship skills, I want something to fly level 4 missions in that doesnt need a cap booster, doesnt need another factions ship skills (im looking at you machariel) and doesnt require full use of split projectiles/missiles to get a respectable dps. Check, check, check, and check. [Vargur, Level 4 - Pithum C] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Explosion Dampening Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Salvager II Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Projectile Ambit Extension I Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
Songbird 35	Posted - 2011.10.28 18:15:00 - [22] - Quote I got a mach with gist large booster, boost amp, 2 cn invulns - all of it is cap stable - I stick a MWD in there and as needed I pulse it. Don't tell me mach is an overrated pve ship. Mach tank is in it's DPS - you kill them before they kill you- the whole AE extravaganza bonus room can be killed before your shield hits 1/2. Varg is the Mach's little brother - don't think it's the other way around.
Solstice Project Cult of Personality 79	Posted - 2011.10.28 22:11:00 - [23] - Quote Try a nano'd (nozzle joints are sufficient too, actually, but less optimal) 650s Artillery shield cane. Range is tank, kite, own. 720s if you can stand the horrible RoF, use unstacked then for faster target switching. It works and it's a challenge... and these are needed anyway. inb4 "can't run lvl4s in a cane" and "horrible isk/hour ratio", the typical blah.
Zindela School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2011.10.29 01:00:00 - [24] - Quote If you really want an upgrade from your Maelstrom, there really are only two options: the Vargur, and the Machariel. Personally, I'd recommend the Mach. I threw together a basic shield fit, with a Gist A Large, and got a tank of about 450 vs specific rats with my skills. Combined with the appx. 1000 DPS the Mach puts out, you will be fine. I personally ran a Mach with 800s, a Pith B-type XL, no prop mod, and the lows filled with RF gyros, and T2 TEs. I never came close to capping out, or needing a stronger tank. Hell, I barely had to run my tank. It's so fast that it negates most of the damage from missiles, Angels close in, so your autos tear them to shreds. More or less the only enemies you have to worry about are Sansha, but once you get close, the tracking on their ships can't track you. The Gal BS 4 takes a week and a half, and the upgrade over the Maelstrom is definitely noticeable. a 450 DPS tank is plenty for L4s, and the Mach kills so fast you barely need to watch triggers.

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