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Kara Corvinus
Empyrean Acolytes
114
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Posted - 2013.08.18 08:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
before i get flamed,
Amarr : Apoc ni - gun boat ni Geddon - guns & drones
Gallente : mega ni - gun boat domi ni - drone boat
Minmatar : Tempest ni - gun boat Typhoon ni - missile boat
You can probably see where im going with this ...
caldari : Raven ni - missile boat Scorpion ni - missile boat
Why is it caldari get 2 boats with basically the same roles, where as with other racial's they have a huge difference in how the ships can be fitted / used.
Obvious suggestion :
The rokh navy issue - gun boat.
Is this is a "i want a ni rokh" thread ? - yes
but isn't my argument solid enough to justify it? :P
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ELWhappo Sanchez
1
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Posted - 2013.08.18 08:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
raven is a lot better torp boat than a scorp. scorp is a em boat raven is a dps missile / torp boat. if anyone of those should be nixt it's the scorp because the rattler is a lot better than the navy scorp. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
135
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Caldari ships are pretty different to each other. Certainly as different as the Amarr ones. Both use missiles but the Raven has damage application bonuses rather than pure dps+tank bonuses.
+1 for more Navy BS however. I want a even bigger more awesome Abaddon in the navy paintscheme :D No issues with it being laser only either :p |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
36
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ok, now show me with that Puppet where the bad CNR touched you. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
278
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Ok, now show me with that Puppet where the bad CNR touched you.
Kara Corvinus wrote:Is this is a "i want a ni rokh" thread ? - yes L2read issue?
p.s. I want Maelstrom FI too. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
37
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Ok, now show me with that Puppet where the bad CNR touched you. Kara Corvinus wrote:Is this is a "i want a ni rokh" thread ? - yes L2read issue? p.s. I want Maelstrom FI too.
L2getjokes issue? |
Kara Corvinus
Empyrean Acolytes
114
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Ok, now show me with that Puppet where the bad CNR touched you. Kara Corvinus wrote:Is this is a "i want a ni rokh" thread ? - yes L2read issue? p.s. I want Maelstrom FI too. L2getjokes issue?
L2befunny? |
Whitehound
1846
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Armageddon NI is not a drone boat. When you think its 125mbit/s drone interface makes it a drone boat then you also have to think of the Scorpion NI as a gun boat, because it can fit turrets. You then only look at it from a racial point of view, but the more skillpoints players have the more likely it is for them to fly more than one race of ships. So you also have to look across race boundaries:
Missile boats: Raven NI Scorpion NI Typhoon FI
Gun boats: Apocalypse NI Armageddon NI Megathron NI Dominix NI (can fit turrets and gets a bonus to it despite being an obvious drone boat) Tempest FI Typhoon FI Scorpion NI (can fit turrets)
Drone boats: Dominix NI Typhoon FI (has got 125mbit for drones) Armageddon NI (has got 125mbit for drones) Megathron NI (has got 125mbit for drones)
If you ignore the drone bandwidth then it is the drone boats that are under-represented. If you count it in then it is missile boats that are under-represented. Anyhow, it is really the faction gun boats that are over-represented.
It is also an advantage for Caldari to have two missile boats, because players only need to train for one weapon system and for one one racial battleship to choose from two faction ships. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
37
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kara Corvinus wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Ok, now show me with that Puppet where the bad CNR touched you. Kara Corvinus wrote:Is this is a "i want a ni rokh" thread ? - yes L2read issue? p.s. I want Maelstrom FI too. L2getjokes issue? L2befunny?
Is this the Twilight Zone?! |
Kara Corvinus
Empyrean Acolytes
114
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:The Armageddon NI is not a drone boat...
The point isn't the theory , its the application.
ni geddons will use heavy's and sentrys because, they can. but your digging into a area which has nothing to do with my thread.
we can discuss the in's and outs on what classes as a drone boat all day, but the fact is a ni geddon is used very differently then a apoc ni. People will argue the scorp ni & raven NI are different, but lets be honest, not that much, one tanks a bit more, the other shots abit more.
But thank you for stopping by to make a huge completely pointless post, because some ships have a couple of gun slots.
If your happy with the difference between the scorp ni and raven ni because the scorp has a couple of gun slots,
your playing eve wrong.
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Kara Corvinus
Empyrean Acolytes
114
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Is this the Twilight Zone?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y
maybe..... |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
37
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
God damn it, i never get out of here...
Anyway, i want new Battleships instead something more roaming-able as the current BS, something between attack Battleships and Battlecruiser. |
Whitehound
1846
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Posted - 2013.08.18 09:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kara Corvinus wrote:Whitehound wrote:The Armageddon NI is not a drone boat... The point isn't the theory , its the application. ni geddons will use heavy's and sentrys because, they can. but your digging into a area which has nothing to do with my thread. we can discuss the in's and outs on what classes as a drone boat all day, but the fact is a ni geddon is used very differently then a apoc ni. People will argue the scorp ni & raven NI are different, but lets be honest, not that much, one tanks a bit more, the other shots abit more. But thank you for stopping by to make a huge completely pointless post, because some ships have a couple of gun slots. If your happy with the difference between the scorp ni and raven ni because the scorp has a couple of gun slots, your playing eve wrong. I am only giving you another view on the topic. You do not have to embrace it or be thankful for it. You can stay as narrow-minded as you are. It is fine by me. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Egravant Alduin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2013.08.18 13:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
One ship that must be fixed is typhoon fleet issue since it's the worst missile boat .It's too difficult to equip because of CPU and also the tank is horrible cause of the 5 meds slots it has which the 2 must be used for target painters if you want to make some good applied damage.Else a lot of its damage goes wasted . |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
456
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Posted - 2013.08.18 13:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
well this is a common theme with caldari ships all Navy ships are missile based .. it is annoying as the T1 caldari gun ships are fairly poor compared to gallente blaster ships...
it would be nice if CCP actually made an effort in making good Caldari blaster ships...alas they heavily favour the missile ships and throw the rest of us ships like the Eagle and ferox, cormorant, vulture, Rokh, falcon , raptor .. all are railgun ships and not very impressive or adaptable to good blaster ships.
Harpy, merlin and Moa are the only good blaster ships we have. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Whitehound
1849
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Posted - 2013.08.18 13:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:well this is a common theme with caldari ships all Navy ships are missile based .. it is annoying as the T1 caldari gun ships are fairly poor compared to gallente blaster ships...
it would be nice if CCP actually made an effort in making good Caldari blaster ships...alas they heavily favour the missile ships and throw the rest of us ships like the Eagle and ferox, cormorant, vulture, Rokh, falcon , raptor .. all are railgun ships and not very impressive or adaptable to good blaster ships.
Harpy, merlin and Moa are the only good blaster ships we have. Try the Ferox with blasters and Null M. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
456
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Posted - 2013.08.18 13:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Harvey James wrote:well this is a common theme with caldari ships all Navy ships are missile based .. it is annoying as the T1 caldari gun ships are fairly poor compared to gallente blaster ships...
it would be nice if CCP actually made an effort in making good Caldari blaster ships...alas they heavily favour the missile ships and throw the rest of us ships like the Eagle and ferox, cormorant, vulture, Rokh, falcon , raptor .. all are railgun ships and not very impressive or adaptable to good blaster ships.
Harpy, merlin and Moa are the only good blaster ships we have. Try the Ferox with blasters and Null M.
the problem the ferox has is the drake is just plain better .. more tank granted is slightly slower , better dps to projection ratio and an extra mid slot.... now maybe when they nerf HAM's range to where it should be it might be more competitive but still ..... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Whitehound
1849
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Posted - 2013.08.18 13:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Whitehound wrote:Harvey James wrote:well this is a common theme with caldari ships all Navy ships are missile based .. it is annoying as the T1 caldari gun ships are fairly poor compared to gallente blaster ships...
it would be nice if CCP actually made an effort in making good Caldari blaster ships...alas they heavily favour the missile ships and throw the rest of us ships like the Eagle and ferox, cormorant, vulture, Rokh, falcon , raptor .. all are railgun ships and not very impressive or adaptable to good blaster ships.
Harpy, merlin and Moa are the only good blaster ships we have. Try the Ferox with blasters and Null M. the problem the ferox has is the drake is just plain better .. more tank granted is slightly slower , better dps to projection ratio and an extra mid slot.... now maybe when they nerf HAM's range to where it should be it might be more competitive but still ..... The Drake cannot fit turrets and you have said it did not have good blaster boats. The Ferox is a good blaster boat. If a missile boat is better is not the point here. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
456
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Posted - 2013.08.18 13:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Harvey James wrote:Whitehound wrote:Harvey James wrote:well this is a common theme with caldari ships all Navy ships are missile based .. it is annoying as the T1 caldari gun ships are fairly poor compared to gallente blaster ships...
it would be nice if CCP actually made an effort in making good Caldari blaster ships...alas they heavily favour the missile ships and throw the rest of us ships like the Eagle and ferox, cormorant, vulture, Rokh, falcon , raptor .. all are railgun ships and not very impressive or adaptable to good blaster ships.
Harpy, merlin and Moa are the only good blaster ships we have. Try the Ferox with blasters and Null M. the problem the ferox has is the drake is just plain better .. more tank granted is slightly slower , better dps to projection ratio and an extra mid slot.... now maybe when they nerf HAM's range to where it should be it might be more competitive but still ..... The Drake cannot fit turrets and you have said it did not have good blaster boats. The Ferox is a good blaster boat. If a missile boat is better is not the point here.
Well perhaps.. but the main point of the thread and main bulk of my inital post is that CCP heavily favour missile ships over the gun ships.. i'll grant you the ferox is a decent blaster boat but it is still underwhelming and there are multiple better options on the gallente side of blaster ships... caldari lack blaster options bottom line which is the main point of the thread is caldari need more gunships and less missile ships which there are plenty of now. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Whitehound
1849
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Posted - 2013.08.18 13:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Well perhaps.. but the main point of the thread and main bulk of my inital post is that CCP heavily favour missile ships over the gun ships.. i'll grant you the ferox is a decent blaster boat but it is still underwhelming and there are multiple better options on the gallente side of blaster ships... caldari lack blaster options bottom line which is the main point of the thread is caldari need more gunships and less missile ships which there are plenty of now. Caldari has always been the race with the most missile ships. This is a feature and not an issue. You do not see anyone complaining about the blue background images of the Caldari ships either, because it too is a feature of the Caldari race. I am sure you get a short description of each race when you select your character and start your skill training for the first time. If anything then one would have chosen the wrong race, but overall are missile ships not over-represented. You then do not see Gallente pilots complaining about not having any missile and laser ships. The issue the OP has got simply does not occur to most pilots. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
456
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Posted - 2013.08.18 14:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Harvey James wrote:Well perhaps.. but the main point of the thread and main bulk of my inital post is that CCP heavily favour missile ships over the gun ships.. i'll grant you the ferox is a decent blaster boat but it is still underwhelming and there are multiple better options on the gallente side of blaster ships... caldari lack blaster options bottom line which is the main point of the thread is caldari need more gunships and less missile ships which there are plenty of now. Caldari has always been the race with the most missile ships. This is a feature and not an issue. You do not see anyone complaining about the blue background images of the Caldari ships either, because it too is a feature of the Caldari race. I am sure you get a short description of each race when you select your character and start your skill training for the first time. If anything then one would have chosen the wrong race, but overall are missile ships not over-represented. You then do not see Gallente pilots complaining about not having any missile and laser ships. The issue the OP has got simply does not occur to most pilots.
the gallente comment makes no sense at all besides on the T2 level of roden shipyards.... gallente have never had laser ships or proper missile focused ships either but caldari do have and always had Hybrid focused ships.
And considering Amarr only ever had 1 main drone based hull but now have lots of drone focused ships .. Minmatar have many more missile ships now than before... including fleet ships getting missile representation
So why can't caldari have a little more focus on improving what they already have and adding a few more to give better representation and options on the Hybrid side of their ships??? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Whitehound
1849
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Posted - 2013.08.18 15:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:So why can't caldari have a little more focus on improving what they already have and adding a few more to give better representation and options on the Hybrid side of their ships??? Because it would create only more turret ships at this point. Of course can you ask for it, but at the same time could one ask for a Gallente laser ship or a Caldari drone boat. If you then count the pirate ships in do you actually get the Rattlesnake, which is a missile and drone boat, and the other three are again all turret ships. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
IDGAD
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.08.18 15:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Before we get tier 3 faction BS, I want faction dreads <3 or maybe even faction carriers that carry more ships since well..... the SUPER CARRIER actually does not carry, and the previously named "mothership" did not either. In other words, make me a bigger ship transporter :X |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
456
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Posted - 2013.08.18 15:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Harvey James wrote:So why can't caldari have a little more focus on improving what they already have and adding a few more to give better representation and options on the Hybrid side of their ships??? Because it would create only more turret ships at this point. Of course can you ask for it, but at the same time could one ask for a Gallente laser ship or a Caldari drone boat. If you then count the pirate ships in do you actually get the Rattlesnake, which is a missile and drone boat, and the other three are again all turret ships.
WFT !! is with this gallente laser obsession it makes no sense where talking about adding/improving something that already exist's
Caldari - Hybrids/missiles -Navy are all missiles/ no Hybrids Gallente - Hybrids/drones - Navy have mix of the two Amarr- lasers/drones - Navy are only lasers/ no drones Minmatar - projectiles/missiles - Fleet has a mix
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Whitehound
1850
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Posted - 2013.08.18 16:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Whitehound wrote:Harvey James wrote:So why can't caldari have a little more focus on improving what they already have and adding a few more to give better representation and options on the Hybrid side of their ships??? Because it would create only more turret ships at this point. Of course can you ask for it, but at the same time could one ask for a Gallente laser ship or a Caldari drone boat. If you then count the pirate ships in do you actually get the Rattlesnake, which is a missile and drone boat, and the other three are again all turret ships. WFT !! is with this gallente laser obsession it makes no sense where talking about adding/improving something that already exist's Caldari - Hybrids/missiles -Navy are all missiles/ no Hybrids Gallente - Hybrids/drones - Navy have mix of the two Amarr- lasers/drones - Navy are only lasers/ no drones Minmatar - projectiles/missiles - Fleet has a mix Of course are lasers on Gallente a stupid idea , but so is killing the Raven NI as a missile boat. It is like asking to turn the Machariel into a missile boat.
Fit guns onto a Scorpion NI, ask for more turret hardpoints for it instead, or fly Gallente.
For the side topic of making a navy version of the Rokh is there little to say, but that we are very unlikely to get a third faction BS any time soon. We will first see faction destroyers, maybe a second faction frigate or cruiser for the races. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2013.08.18 17:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
I wouldn't mind seeing the current CNR go away... no body would miss it. My problem with the missile ships are that they all perform extremely similarly so ccp has to artificially gimp them...
With turret ships it actually matters which hull will you choose. |
Kara Corvinus
Empyrean Acolytes
115
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Posted - 2013.08.18 22:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Johnson Oramara wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing the current CNR go away... no body would miss it. My problem with the missile ships are that they all perform extremely similarly so ccp has to artificially gimp them... With turret ships it actually matters which hull will you choose.
someone gets it. |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
73
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Posted - 2013.08.19 04:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Johnson Oramara wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing the current CNR go away... no body would miss it. My problem with the missile ships are that they all perform extremely similarly so ccp has to artificially gimp them... With turret ships it actually matters which hull will you choose.
WTH? Are you completely oblivious to EVE history? That is like THE navy issue BS, up there with the Navy Mega. Tons of people use CNR's. A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
217
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Posted - 2013.08.19 04:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Johnson Oramara wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing the current CNR go away... no body would miss it. My problem with the missile ships are that they all perform extremely similarly so ccp has to artificially gimp them... With turret ships it actually matters which hull will you choose.
kind of on the fence abuot this but....this could have me leaning more to the gun side.
Someone said above well train gallente. I am eyeing that in eft (jsut really a question of do I do bs 5....already there a t 4 with a pretty much done sub cap x-train all 4 races). It would be nice to have the gallente debates of hyp v mega v kronos v vindi in the caldari family though even if only between 2 ships.
Golem vs CNR is academic at this point. I take one faster smaller ship low sig and put it way the hell out and there goes the explosion radius vs tp debate out the window. TP in fall off, radius on a hard to hit target and they both suck ass.
Gun side this gets more fun for gallente. Hyp has damage no tracking. Will it hit hard enough when it hits in falloff to be of use. Will kronos/vindi with damage and tracking do better. Or will the mega (navy or t1) be the dark horse contender with ROF and tracking. its not hitting as hard...but its spewing lots of rounds so even though less damage they are coming in fast.
Be nice if caldari had this. CCP opened this can of worms with naga. has 425 II' rails? check. HAs 425 IIs rails that hit hard? check. Makes you wish rokh could do the same thing? check lol.
I think op's issue is he jsut hit a sore spot. CNR a loved ship. before cruise buff...it was better than golem. Post buff golems aren't sold at 800-900 anymore so its their cheap option.
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Kara Corvinus
Empyrean Acolytes
116
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vassal Zeren wrote:Johnson Oramara wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing the current CNR go away... no body would miss it. My problem with the missile ships are that they all perform extremely similarly so ccp has to artificially gimp them... With turret ships it actually matters which hull will you choose. WTH? Are you completely oblivious to EVE history? That is like THE navy issue BS, up there with the Navy Mega. Tons of people use CNR's.
but scorp ni looks more sexy. |
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