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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
32
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Posted - 2013.08.19 14:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
Haramir Haleths wrote:The art of pvp is to counter fit your opponent. And dont blame the mechanics if you are to stupid to fit your ship right. This is a sandbox games. Adept or leave, morons.
guess it's fashionable to write something in the forums along the lines of HTFU, even if basic common sense suggests that something might not be working as intended.
I reserve the right to use your formulation in the next "nerf AFK-cloaking"-thread.
Also, I'd say that the FW-part is rather not the most sandbox part of eve. It seems quite obvious that these plexes aim at facilitating PvP and are not meant to be another PVE-ISK-faucet, which is after all the result of such a fitting.
CCP changed cloaking mechanics in plexes, which is another indicator that those plexes are not meant to be farmed without a realistic chance of a PvP-encounter.
In the past, occasionally, mechanics changed. So maybe in a few cases it's not the player that adapts, but the game. |
Seth Darkness
Friends of Honor C0VEN
3
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Posted - 2013.08.19 14:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Why don't you use a scripted HIC? That will prevent anything from warping away from you.
Use scrams instead of disruptors.
Cloak up in a spot and wait for the target to come to you. |
Lin Suizei
151
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Posted - 2013.08.19 15:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Seth Darkness wrote:Why don't you use a scripted HIC? That will prevent anything from warping away from you.
Use scrams instead of disruptors.
Cloak up in a spot and wait for the target to come to you.
Plex mechanics so favor the farmer that someone who is at the keyboard and following a simple set of rules (i.e. behaving exactly like a well-programmed bot) is for all intents and purposes invulnerable. You can't tackle him if he sees you coming from 1AU away and cloaks as soon as you appear.
Pre-camping plexes can work, but at that stage you're just counting on the farmer's greed, warping to an existing plex instead of cracking open a new one. You'd have better luck chasing AFK farmers with a triple-scram merlin. Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |
Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2013.08.19 15:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
So according to OP, ppl who sit and mine asteroids are adding nothing to the game either, and the rocks should also magically bubble the miners by switching targets every 20 seconds and....whatever, I didn't really read the lame solution proposal anyway. If a game mechanic exists in any form, then the players will adapt to profit by those game mechanics. Simply because ppl aren't lined up in their ships at these sites for the pies to swoop down on them, that is why OP is QQ-ing in the forum plain & simple. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
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Posted - 2013.08.19 15:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1233
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Posted - 2013.08.19 15:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Of course it's broken. Plex farming is totally risk averse and completely inconsistent with everything else in lowsec. Good solution to cloaking but doesn't fix the problem.
What is your system for killing them?
umm pretty sure every pve system in eve is made that way. be it low sec null or high.
even with low sec missions you are pretty safe if you keep that eye on d-scan
0.0 with local and comms will keep you perma safe from everything but awoxers.
missions in high sec will keep you safe from everyone but awokers
and so on. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1233
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Posted - 2013.08.19 15:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:
Plex mechanics so favor the farmer that someone who is at the keyboard and following a simple set of rules (i.e. behaving exactly like a well-programmed bot) is for all intents and purposes invulnerable. .
dude this is true for every form of PVE... if you are paying attention you have no reason to die. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2610
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights.
Facilitate =/= Require
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
32
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Posted - 2013.08.19 15:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:
umm pretty sure every pve system in eve is made that way.
okay. a fundamental misunderstanding. I didn't get that FW is PVE-content. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
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Posted - 2013.08.19 15:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights. Facilitate =/= Require you didn't read my first post |
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Prince Kobol
875
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Posted - 2013.08.19 15:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
embrel wrote:MeBiatch wrote:
umm pretty sure every pve system in eve is made that way.
okay. a fundamental misunderstanding. I didn't get that FW is PVE-content.
It isn't.. its player generated content like all of Eve, hence the OP Problems |
Eva Ichinumi
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.08.19 15:49:00 -
[42] - Quote
The plex farmers will not turn into PvP pilots if plex farming would be denied.
There would just be alot of unfarmable empty plexes around. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2610
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights. Facilitate =/= Require you didn't read my first post
I did, and I even replied to it too.
Once you chase him out of the plex, his ship isn't optimal for capturing that plex anymore is it? You won that PVP engagement - you just don't get a killmail out of it.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1926
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
the solution are timer resets.
They will run only so often before they realize this isn't pve, they are supposed to stay in the plex and defend their progress, not run away while making progress. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Prince Kobol
875
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:11:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:the solution are timer resets.
They will run only so often before they realize this isn't pve, they are supposed to stay in the plex and defend their progress, not run away while making progress.
You do know how plex's work right?
Once you leave the boundary (30km) the timer stops.
So if they run from every plex as soon as somebody warps in they gain nothing.
So by simply denying them the ability to stay in the plex means you win and the plex'er gets nothing. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights. Facilitate =/= Require you didn't read my first post I did, and I even replied to it too. Once you chase him out of the plex, his ship isn't optimal for capturing that plex anymore is it? You won that PVP engagement - you just don't get a killmail out of it. your reply had nothing to do with my post. and having people run from every complex doesn't achieve the system's goal nor does it make an entertaining game. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3304
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
Yet another "solution" in search of a problem, posted in GD.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ms 'Tardy
Pulse Lasers Anonymous
0
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
ITT: Farmers butthurt at the potential loss of isk from changes |
Alt Alter
Alt Ops
0
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
1. Faction Warfare is a great system for getting fights, you dont want a ******** atron with stabs and cloak on your killboard anyways, I mean that would just be farming kills and might as well be noobships so stop worrying about catching them. OP you have been out of FW for some time now and are really just looking to use the plexes to farm kills. Any pvp'er will fight and there you have your fight.
2. FW is in the Business tab along side agent finder, wallet, and contracts. this might be a clue to what its for. It is not in the social tab with fleets, sovereignty and corporations. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Bienator II wrote:the solution are timer resets.
They will run only so often before they realize this isn't pve, they are supposed to stay in the plex and defend their progress, not run away while making progress. You do know how plex's work right? Once you leave the boundary (30km) the timer stops. So if they run from every plex as soon as somebody warps in they gain nothing. So by simply denying them the ability to stay in the plex means you win and the plex'er gets nothing. this system isn't making fights and is incredibly boring. also the plexer just moves on - they don't care about the solar system. nobody does, anymore. if they hang around for the LP, the game just turns into two guys not fighting each other, staring at each other in local, not doing anything until one leaves. |
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Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ms 'Tardy wrote:ITT: Farmers butthurt at the potential loss of isk from changes
Your dainty little feelings don't bring about change, only ridicule and a few laughs (cheap ones). Actual solution proposals bring about change, and then you have to gain enough momentum to get the Dev's attention. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
266
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what? Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever. And here I thought I was the only one that could see this. |
Alt Alter
Alt Ops
0
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
Lee Saisima wrote:Ms 'Tardy wrote:ITT: Farmers butthurt at the potential loss of isk from changes Your dainty little feelings don't bring about change, only ridicule and a few laughs (cheap ones). Actual solution proposals bring about change, and then you have to gain enough momentum to get the Dev's attention.
If it was truely OPs intention to get the proposal to the devs he would have posted in Features & Ideas Discussion. He did not so obviously he is just wanting to have a rant/discussion, this time he picked the FW plex mechanics. |
Adson Wessiri
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights. Facilitate =/= Require you didn't read my first post I did, and I even replied to it too. Once you chase him out of the plex, his ship isn't optimal for capturing that plex anymore is it? You won that PVP engagement - you just don't get a killmail out of it.
^^Pretty much this. People need to stop jerking it to their killboards and realize that just because you didn't get a killmail doesn't mean it wasn't PvP. FW may be there to help facilitiate fights but it's still objective based PvP. The first priority should be claiming your objectives not whoring for killmails.
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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
724
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:So for those in FW, I'm sure you've noticed the farmers. Stabbed, cloaked ships that orbit buttons that add no content other than running at anything that shows up within 1AU on Dscan. Just as a regular example, here's what's wrong with the system as it is now : [IMG]Quadrouble Stabs FTW[/IMG]The variation is 3 stabs and a cloak on a T1 frigate, usually an atron due to the slot layout (guns and spare highslot for cloak with 3 lows for stabs) This play style adds no content to the game. They are avoiding PvP as well as PvE, as once the ONE rat in the plex is dead they literally sit and just run down their timer. For those of you who suck at this game, you'll probably try to say that this argument is due to "OMG HE JUST WANTS TO KILL EASY PLAYERS." To those, a cursory glance at my kill board shows I have developed a excellent system in killing these farmers. My objective here is irrelevant, other than the ending of this farming. Obviously, we cannot ban warp core stabs or cloaks in fits, as that would adversely affect legitimate game play. To solve these problems, the button (the structure in the middle) could become a structure that can target any player running down the timer, which prevents a cloak. To nullify the stabs, either the equivalent of a interdiction bubble, or perhaps a focused warp disruption(that switches targets every 30 seconds, and has a range about 20km past the button range) would prevent no-risk timer running down. The target switching is there to not adversely affect legitimate pvp. A solo player should not be affected by this, as they can just burn out when on dscan. An afk plex alt will be affected, as by definition of AFK means they aren't looking. Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now.
Posting in a stealth nerf noob alts thread?
I too am excited about trading playability for more lag and shiny pictures.....:( Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
Adson Wessiri wrote:^^Pretty much this. People need to stop jerking it to their killboards and realize that just because you didn't get a killmail doesn't mean it wasn't PvP. FW may be there to help facilitiate fights but it's still objective based PvP. The first priority should be claiming your objectives not whoring for killmails.
if the best way to win the system designed to create fights is to not fight and make fights as unfun as possible, it's a sign the system is failing. |
Adson Wessiri
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Adson Wessiri wrote:^^Pretty much this. People need to stop jerking it to their killboards and realize that just because you didn't get a killmail doesn't mean it wasn't PvP. FW may be there to help facilitiate fights but it's still objective based PvP. The first priority should be claiming your objectives not whoring for killmails.
if the best way to win the system designed to create fights is to not fight and make fights as unfun as possible, it's a sign the system is failing.
If you're running away every time someone enters the plex you aren't winning the system. In fact the exact opposite. You are losing the system. |
Drax Concrilla
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
To those who say you've "won" by making a farmer run off I call shenanigans. If you're in the opposing militia you need to sit there and deplex it to truly "win" - but then guess what? You still haven't won because in that time the farmer just goes and farms a separate plex - you lose both the time, isk, and plex battle.
If you warp off and chase him, you still lose. He then warps back to the original plex and gains a few more seconds/minutes toward completion due to no timer resets.
The only way you "win" here is to catch and kill him.
Note: I am not saying this is impossible or whining about it, but to say that you "win" by driving a farmer off is factually incorrect.
I believe the suitable solution here is a timer reset every time someone from your militia isn't actively plexing after X minutes - preferably 5 or less. This would include cloaking.
Banning stabs or cloaks is dumb, you should never ban a module as they are a part of the game whether you like it or not. Contriving some system like in the OP isn't ideal either, as it will penalize legitimate PvP and plex activities. |
Azurae
South West Trading
103
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
if your cloaking warpcorestabbed farmers were actually afk you would have no problem killing them and wouldn't need any of those measures. if they are not afk (hint: most of them are at the keyboard thats why they warp out and lead to you complaining about it) then nothing of those measures would help you since they could just burn out of range as you said and then warp off.
bottom line: your "solution" to the non existent problem would not solve anything if there was a problem.... |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:47:00 -
[60] - Quote
no. the majority of people don't see plexing as taking solar systems, they see it primarily as a way of making money. the best way to win is to leave and discourage pursuit by making it as unentertaining as you can you can circle buttons by yourself.
the same tactic works for the purposes of taking solar systems - just come back later after everyone's bored. |
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