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Mandible
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Posted - 2003.08.19 11:34:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Mandible on 19/08/2003 11:36:46
Edited by: Mandible on 19/08/2003 11:35:27
Yesterday i wanted to sell some ore at a good price, compared to the price normaly given in the same system. there whas one buyer wanting to buy 50.000 of that type. But whenever i sold it went straight into sell order. Waited 5 minutes before i could cancel and get it back, i went to another station..same there, It whas at all stations there and even in the neighbouring system. Same price same amount. I just couldnt sell it neither could i sell it for a lower price, and there whas demand for it. It all went into sell order all the time.
I talked about it with a corp member and he told me that if a player puts out buy orders at a higher price then the npc demand and then transfers all his cash to an alt, so he couldn't afford to pay, he then locks the demand in those systems. Because his order overrides all other NPc buy orders.
I am not the most clever person on economics but this would mean that if that person cancels his fake order he can then sell all his ore/minerals at npc prices because the demand has never been satisfied. wouldn't this be a bit abusive?
Forgive me bad grammar as english is not my main language :-)
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2003.08.19 11:39:00 -
[2]
I pretty sure that he gets a fine for not having the isk when you attempt to sell and the order is cancelled. Isn't it more likely that its a localised buy order and your market table is lying to you (as it is prone to do when you don't view at local system level).
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Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.08.19 11:40:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Chai N'Dorr on 19/08/2003 11:40:17
Or... it's just the borked market. A lot of times there's supply and demand on there that are already supplied and bought.
Just market is just slow to realize it.
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slacker
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Posted - 2003.08.19 11:43:00 -
[4]
This happens a lot and it p*sses me off.
I sell some mins to "one person wants to by 100,000 at 220 isk" and the order goes straight into my sell orders because the guy doesn't have the funds.
To make it worse you have to wait 5 mins before you can cancel the sell order and move on.
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slacker |
NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.08.19 11:44:00 -
[5]
Edited by: NeoMorph on 19/08/2003 11:44:25
I had the same thing happen to me the other day when I wanted to buy a Bestower... the supply was there and I had the cash but I wasnt at the station where the Bestower was.
Result? A buy order that I couldnt cancel for 5 mins... grrr... In the end I went to the station and bought it direct.
I think the market is having a few hiccups atm.
-------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Relic
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:03:00 -
[6]
Its a common problem, CCP decided to restrict players so that they can only put orders up that are less in value that the isk they have in their wallet, but this allows the player to place a number of orders or even transfer the funds elsewhere.
In another 'fix' they added this 5min delay for cancling orders.
The result is that no one can take any buy order on the market at face value.
Relic
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Askari
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:06:00 -
[7]
the way to solve this problem immediatley is to put the escrow system into effect.
When you place a buy order, its takes your cash and puts it in escrow.
If you dont have neough money, you cant place the order.
Makes perfect sense... I cant sell what i dont have, so why should i be able to buy with money i dont have?
----------------
~= Askari =~
Urza's Factory
http://www.mikeward.uk.com/urzas
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Kimi
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:07:00 -
[8]
I don't see the reason for that 5 min delay, but I suspect it has more to do with giving the server database to update than any game function.
You cannot place buy orders for more cash than you have now, but it still does not check to see if you KEEP the cash available, or if you have enough cash to cover all the different orders.
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Mandible
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:08:00 -
[9]
Askari, good point that would solve the problem nicely.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:20:00 -
[10]
"Makes perfect sense... I cant sell what i dont have, so why should i be able to buy with money i dont have?"
... Well, lot of real business is done this way i.e. with the money you don't (physically) (yet) have. o.o
Being able to place orders with no cash behind them is useful when for example, at the same time i have the sell orders which --if carried out-- provide enough cash to cover the buy orders. There's obviously the risk i won't be able to sell my stuff in time, but since there's a fine for situations where such gamble doesn't work out i think it's quite fair and balanced....
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Mandible
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:22:00 -
[11]
What fine are you talking about, i didn't know there whas one..?
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Askari
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:31:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Askari on 19/08/2003 12:34:34
Fines got removed AFAIK due to player *****ing.
Either way, they were pathetically small, the fine should be 20% of what the buy order was or something... make it a real fine.
And yes, in real life everyone operates on 30 day net terms, bank loans and forcast turnover.
You cant do that in EvE because you cant forecast, there arent any banks, you cant invoice or draft contracts for players and your bank balance cannot go into negative numbers.
Also, you dont have the courts to back you up if no-one pays.
So, either Escrow, or allow all of the above.
I think escrow gets it.
Even negative bank balance would be good, because then the player cannot purchase anything or pay rents until back in positive. That would teach the market greifers a lesson.
today, 10 mill in bank. tomorrow -6 mill in bank. hahahahaahaaaaaaaaa!!!!
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~= Askari =~
Urza's Factory
http://www.mikeward.uk.com/urzas
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Armaki Kalear
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:36:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Armaki Kalear on 19/08/2003 12:37:09
If you attempt to place a buy order which would cost more than you have, the market issues you with a warning at the time of placing the buy order saying there will be a fine if you don't have the cash when somebody tries to sell to you.
However, I do not know if that fine has actually been implemented. The warning has been around since the beta (by way of evemail). There certainly was no fee in the beta.
Mandible, the trick you talk about is quite impressive... and rather rude.
Biggest question on my mind is if the character that placed the buy order is deleted, is the buy order removed from the market? 
Askari: Of course you would be unable to delete that characters account while negative... 
--
Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:40:00 -
[14]
 Quote:
Edited by: Mandible on 19/08/2003 11:36:46
Edited by: Mandible on 19/08/2003 11:35:27
Yesterday i wanted to sell some ore at a good price, compared to the price normaly given in the same system. there whas one buyer wanting to buy 50.000 of that type. But whenever i sold it went straight into sell order. Waited 5 minutes before i could cancel and get it back, i went to another station..same there, It whas at all stations there and even in the neighbouring system. Same price same amount. I just couldnt sell it neither could i sell it for a lower price, and there whas demand for it. It all went into sell order all the time.
I talked about it with a corp member and he told me that if a player puts out buy orders at a higher price then the npc demand and then transfers all his cash to an alt, so he couldn't afford to pay, he then locks the demand in those systems. Because his order overrides all other NPc buy orders.
I am not the most clever person on economics but this would mean that if that person cancels his fake order he can then sell all his ore/minerals at npc prices because the demand has never been satisfied. wouldn't this be a bit abusive?
Forgive me bad grammar as english is not my main language :-)
Place a sell order for NPC price, every reset the npc will buy from you. This way you can aviod all of this.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Mandible
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:44:00 -
[15]
True Dreamwork, xcept that particular time i whas kind of short on funds and needed it asap.. So i whas kinda surprised and annoyed that time 
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:47:00 -
[16]
No.
A buyer gets the option to specify a minimum volume of the stuff he wants to buy. For example, I can put in a buy order for Trit, with a minimum 1000 units, so that I ignore everyone who tries to sell me 1 unit, cause it wouldn't be worth it for me to go pick up 1 unit from that location.
In this case, if you're trying to sell less units than the minimum specified, it goes to a sell order automatically and no error is given. |
Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:57:00 -
[17]
Mynobe, my understanding is that if you don't have sufficient quantity to sell, then that order wont show up when you try to quick sell.
Otherwise you could slap down a buy order for a minimum amount of a billion units of robotics at a million isk each, and watch the entire regions trade moguls all pile to the same station like flies round sh*t. Meanwhile the demand would go unsated everywhere else, until everyone had given up trying to figure out what was going on.
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Jorev
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Posted - 2003.08.19 12:59:00 -
[18]
/agree Askari
Been preaching escrow for all buy orders for a while now, but no one seems to be listening.
Phony sell prices/buy orders exist for all sorts of items, not just minerals.
An escrow for all buy orders would guarantee that the listed sell price is always correct and receivable, and would help curb many commodities traders from monopolizing the market with limitless buy orders since their funds would be temporarily tied up.
In the real world, buying on credit or margin is only allowed if a financial institution backs you up to guarantee payment. As mentioned already, the courts also exist to deal with scams and deadbeats.
In Eve there is no recourse for a phony sell price/buy order which is why escrow should be mandatory for all buy orders. Who cares if the person gets fined or not, the listed sell price should always be accurate.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.08.19 13:07:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 19/08/2003 13:07:18
What J0$3ph1n3 said, business is all about expected sales and buying based on that hype.
I'm all for re-instating the fine and for parts of it going to the player whos item got misplaced due to poor funding.
Convert Stations
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2003.08.19 13:08:00 -
[20]
Jorev agree 100% with everything you just said. Hence an escrow system is required.
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Jorev
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Posted - 2003.08.19 13:17:00 -
[21]
Danton that may help sellers who were inconvenienced for traveling to a station to sell, only to discover the listed sell price to be phony, but it doesn't compensate competing traders who either outbid a phony price when they didn't need to, or lost out on placing a winning bid because they perceived the phony bid to be too high.
Escrow for all buy orders is the only way to make it legit for everyone.
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Syme
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Posted - 2003.08.19 13:26:00 -
[22]
I'm not sure about the escrow system as that could tie up a serious amount of cash within the game.
One thing I would like implemented is the ability to see who has placed the buy order. If a player had placed the order then I would know that there is a chance that it wouldn't be completed and I could search for an npc buyer instead.
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nono
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Posted - 2003.08.19 13:51:00 -
[23]
*Looks around*
Yep..... it's all been said before by many.
Check out patch review. Someone keeps buying my beer from the end of the line too.
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