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Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
31371
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Posted - 2013.08.19 18:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well, I'm getting a copy of it on CD in what I assume is a 144Kbps format. Is there any chance of maybe getting an imprint in Vinyl done from the original recording? I'm guessing there's more than a few audiophiles willing to check if Eve has sound or not?
Simple question, Dev answers get double chocolate chip cookies 
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3305
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:Well, I'm getting a copy of it on CD in what I assume is a 144Kbps format. Is there any chance of maybe getting an imprint in Vinyl done from the original recording? I'm guessing there's more than a few audiophiles willing to check if Eve has sound or not? Simple question, Dev answers get double chocolate chip cookies 
You do realize that (for audiophile purposes) the recording would need to have been created originally using analog recording equipment for a Vinyl copy to be worth having?
Not too many places do that any more (its a huge PITA), making it unlikely it was used in this case. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
31385
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Posted - 2013.08.19 18:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
I assumed they would have recorded it in either analogue or a very high fidelity digital for editing from the original recording.
I'm kinda new to this side of audio to be honest 
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |

brinelan
The Flying Dead Insidious Empire
91
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Do records really sound better? I hear that every now and then but I haven't used a record player since I had a fisher price one as a kid and 5 year olds generally don't care about sound quality. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3305
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:I assumed they would have recorded it in either analogue or a very high fidelity digital for editing from the original recording. I'm kinda new to this side of audio to be honest 
Recording in all analog is still done, just not very often. Once a recording has been in digital form however, copies taken from that lose all the "good stuff" that having an analog copy preserves.
Drums are often recorded via analog methods, and then the tracks are bounced to digital copies for mixing/editing/mastering with the other instrument and/or vocal tracks. Some guitar purists will only record playing through tube amps and tube microphones (for analog warmth) but the recording of that is still done digitally.
brinelan wrote:Do records really sound better? I hear that every now and then but I haven't used a record player since I had a fisher price one as a kid and 5 year olds generally don't care about sound quality.
If you can really tell the difference (using good quality playback gear and recordings) you might just be an audiophile. Most people can't, and after we all get to be about 30, we have lost a lot of our high frequency hearing above 14Khz anyway. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
37272
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vinyl records sound radically different from CDs and other digital formats.
Mostly it has to do with ambient artifacts, like the subliminal hums of the turntable and the needle itself dragging across the medium. And the pops and clicks of course.
But all that contributes to a warmth in the sound that is utterly missing from digital.
I remember the first song I ever heard on CD, MJ's "Billie Jean" (when the players cost about US$1000), and it sounded slower. I guess it was all the more audio information coming in for the brain to process or something.
This doesn't make difference when it comes to rock, pop, and electronic music, but for classical and other acoustic instrument strong genres, we have definitely lost something.
Classical should only be heard on vinyl, like this particular recording. Digital classical is truly sub-par. |

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
457
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
As well as that, from a technical standpoint, a digital recording is essentially a framed recording. There's only a certain amount of data you can store and only x times per second. So what you lose is what is in the gaps. Pretty much the same as the difference between a photograph on a film, and a photograph from a digital camera. But yeah, as Krixtal says above, it's mainly about the warm and natural feeling of the sound over the straight technical ability of digital. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3306
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Classical should only be heard on vinyl, like this particular recording.
If the original (master recording) in question was recorded via analog means, and you have the right analog home audio gear to reproduce the sound, you are 100% correct. Otherwise vinyl made from digital masters retain none of the desirable tonal and frequency range qualities they would have if the master was also analog.
Classical and instrumental music are definitely best enjoyed when both the original recording and playback use high-quality analog methods, but contemporary Pro digital recording gear has made doing so virtually obsolete and cost prohibitive. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Spurty
942
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Vinyl records sound radically different from CDs and other digital formats.
Mostly it has to do with ambient artifacts, like the subliminal hums of the turntable and the needle itself dragging across the medium. And the pops and clicks of course.
But all that contributes to a warmth in the sound that is utterly missing from digital.
I remember the first song I ever heard on CD, MJ's "Billie Jean" (when the players cost about US$1000), and it sounded slower. I guess it was all the more audio information coming in for the brain to process or something.
This doesn't make difference when it comes to rock, pop, and electronic music, but for classical and other acoustic instrument strong genres, we have definitely lost something.
Classical should only be heard on vinyl, like this particular recording. Digital classical is truly sub-par.
RPMs on turn tables (cheap ones especially) were rarely correct.
Do miss cheap giggles playing queen tunes at 72rpm when made for 33.333333 --- GÇ£If you think this Universe is bad, you should see some of the others.GÇ¥ GÇò Philip K. **** |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
37280
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks. I didn't want my post to become rant-length.  |
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
37280
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Spurty wrote: RPMs on turn tables (cheap ones especially) were rarely correct. Do miss cheap giggles playing queen tunes at 72rpm when made for 33.333333
Welp, you weren't there then and don't know.
After about 1978 it was standard for turntables to have speed adjustment wheels so yes they were 100% accurate.....as accurate as you are wrong.
Also, make that 78 RPM and I may believe you are over 30 yo. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3308
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: After about 1978 it was standard for turntables to have speed adjustment wheels so yes they were 100% accurate.....as accurate as you are wrong..
Most consumer turntables were belt driven and thus could hardly be expected to be accurate in terms of RPM and that is why they had a "pitch control" knob or slider for making minor RPM adjustments +/- . This adjustment existed in the 60's and still does today even on the superior direct drive models but now it's used more for "beatmatching" than correcting the RPM speed.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Whitehound
1874
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 21:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
I bet most of the so called audiophile people only believe in vinyl, because they have bought their first stereo with their very first hard-earned money and during a time where this was basically the only electric device for recreational purposes available to consumers, which allowed one to listen to whatever one wanted and thereby felt a new, unknown independence. You would not create sentimental feelings for your first washing machine or your first car. Having a car back then was still a luxury. Radios meant listening to someone else's music and the TV was owned by the entire family if not the entire house. Of course will vinyl stay forever in the memories of these people and have a special place in their hearts. This is why I think vinyl sounds the way it sounds. I am not saying crackling sounds and random, unharmonious shifts in frequencies sounds bad. It just needs to have the right mind for it. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
37316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 22:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:I bet most of the so called audiophile people only believe in vinyl, because they have bought their first stereo with their very first hard-earned money and during a time where this was basically the only electric device for recreational purposes available to consumer.
lol.
You so fu---nny.
The people you are describing here are in their 80s and 90s.
You are saying that nobody under the age of 60 could possible understand the sound of a vinyl album.
Yes. It's what you have stated most indeed. |

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2903
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 22:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
I still have my Half Speed Master and Japanese pressings of many classical rock albums.
I can hear that David Gilmore had a dry mouth in one of the songs off Wish You Were Here. I defy anyone to tell me that digital can get anywhere near that kind of subtlety in its sound quality. I pity those of you that have grown up without vinyl.
Mr Epeen  There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
1523
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 22:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
When CDs first came out, I could definitely hear the 'digitalness,' compared to vinyl. My friend had really good turntable and all-around excellent audio system. We compared U2 "Unforgettable Fire" on vinyl and CD, and to me the vinyl sounded much smoother and richer. |

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
31440
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 22:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
I got my mums old Record player working again (new needle, go me) and loved the quality of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds coming off. Looking into getting one for myself and, realising that CCP were releasing the album I was hoping to make it a part of my soon to be (hopefully) budding collection.
22 for the record, sounds better than Youtube and MP3's. 
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
37322
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 22:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:When CDs first came out, I could definitely hear the 'digitalness,' compared to vinyl. My friend had really good turntable and all-around excellent audio system. We compared U2 "Unforgettable Fire" on vinyl and CD, and to me the vinyl sounded much smoother and richer.
And much more like producer Brian Eno wanted. |

mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
503
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 22:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Technically, 95%+ of people won't be able to A/B test 256kbps MP3 vs FLAC. Only extremely trained ears with hi-fi equipment will have any success A/B testing 320kbps vs FLAC.
44.1/48khz vs 96/192khz recording is another difference virtually nobody can A/B test.
What is important is how the music was mastered. If it was mastered for vinyl and you have a digital version, you might not be getting the experience that the producer intended. This is no different than film, where say, a Kubrick film with particular written instructions for the projectionist simply won't have the same experience if remastered into higher quality digital.
But these days, assuming you're not listening to music recorded by a retro studio with 1970s era equipment, you're getting a perfect audio experience listening to CD quality digital.
That's not to say that some people don't like a bit of coloration to their sound. I'm one of them. I have neutral reference headphones (DT880), and I like the warmth and body that a tube amp adds. I certainly won't say it's improving that quality though, the analog component is just degrading the signal in a way that I happen to enjoy.
The only "digital sucks" argument that really has any credence is basic bitrates. On high end equipment, anything less than 320kbps will have a noticeable reduction in bass quality (and high end, if you have good ears). It's a shame that 128kbps is the standard, because it has obvious shortcomings even on midrange equipment. |

Whitehound
1875
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 22:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:You are saying that nobody under the age of 60 could possible understand the sound of a vinyl album. No. I have explained where the cult of vinyl started from. It is more than just an audio storage. It used to be a symbol of freedom for entire generations.
The perceived quality difference of CDs and vinyls that some now use as evidence of a superiority of vinyl just shows a lack of objectivity, because many older CDs at best only contain a digitally processed copy of a vinyl master and therefore will never be able to sound any better. You rather should ask yourself why you need a belief in superiority of vinyl to enjoy music in the first place.
What is funny, since you mentioned it, is that many people believe in hearing things in analogue recordings that are not really there, because nothing is stopping their imagination from believing it like for instance a sample rate and a bit number. Theoretically can an analogue recording contain an infinite amount of information and the moment you tell this to people will they start listening to it and try to hear something new. Just like some people even listened to records backwards to make sure they get everything and then were rewarded with mysterious messages from the beyond. 
This is the power of belief. How well you can hear is a different matter. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
1525
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 00:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm wondering the sample rate or whatever is better with digital these than in the early days. I don't really notice that digital sound anymore-- kind of like sharp, crisp, flat layers. Then again I haven't heard vinyl in years, nothing to compare too. |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
37351
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 00:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
mechtech wrote: This is no different than film, where say, a Kubrick film with particular written instructions for the projectionist simply won't have the same experience if remastered into higher quality digital.
Thank You for knowing your Kubrick History. Maybe there is hope after all. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3312
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 03:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:I'm wondering the sample rate or whatever is better with digital these than in the early days. I don't really notice that digital sound anymore-- kind of like sharp, crisp, flat layers. Then again I haven't heard vinyl in years, nothing to compare too.
Yes, sampling rates have, and are still improving, and the A/D and D/A converters available now are a lot better. The quality of a signal converter is a key factor, and you can spend some serious dosh on 24-bit exotic A/D that can only really achieve 21-22 bit performance, but the specs on such devices are nonetheless far better than humans can hear or perceive.
Most consumer sound cards, and personal electronics use cheap D/A converters, cheap output filters, and inadequate (even non-existent) pre-amps, so it does not really matter how good the original digital recording was if the output device cannot reproduce it fully or cleanly prior to amplification. This combined with lossy MP3 compression are enough to make anyone cringe who has heard what a really good vinyl recording or AMPEX reel played back through proper equipment sounds like. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
385
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 04:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Note to self:
Take down names in this thread, prepare to sell authentic Pear audio cables. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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CCP Falcon
3808

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Posted - 2013.08.20 09:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Without a doubt the difference between vinyl and digital is there.
Regardless, I don't think anything will beat having heard this live in Eldborg, Harpa's main concert hall. It was an unbelievably moving trip down memory lane for veteran EVE players that left quite a few of them (and a few developers too!) close to tears.
I don't think we've even considered releasing it on vinyl given the production costs and limited demand for it.
I'll speak with our marketing guys, and see if they have any plans to release it via any other medium.

CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
31525
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 09:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
A pity about no Vinyl, but it sounds like maybe a FLAC version by your wording 
*Throws the promised Cookies from the rooftops of Iceland*
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /S¦¦GùòGÇ+GÇ+GùòS¦¦\ Unban Saede! |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2088
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 11:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
brinelan wrote:Do records really sound better? I hear that every now and then but I haven't used a record player since I had a fisher price one as a kid and 5 year olds generally don't care about sound quality. No.
Many (many, many) tests have been done and there's never been a properly conducted experiment where vinyl was found to beat out digital. http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm
If you want fidelity in your recording (you want it to sound live) then buy the CD. If you prefer the sounds that Vinyl induces (hiss, pops, cracks, etc) then buy the Vinyl.
Now there's an exception to the above, and that is bad mastering. You can't 'brickwall' a Vinyl in the same way you can a CD, so if you find a badly mastered CD (of which, there are many examples) then you may enjoy the Vinyl more.
Until you listen to it a few times and it loses all the highend anyway 
CCP Falcon wrote:Without a doubt the difference between vinyl and digital is there. Well, actually there's massive amounts of scientifically accurate evidence that says there isn't one, and a whole lot of people saying "I *can* hear a difference, but not if you test me on it!" "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
37533
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 12:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: Well, actually there's massive amounts of scientifically accurate evidence that says there isn't one, and a whole lot of people saying "I *can* hear a difference, but not if you test me on it!"
I guess I'm not human then as I can tell in a blind-hearing demonstration. If it's the same song or whatever.
Difference is night and day.
But you go ahead and believe your fantasy. That's just fine. |

Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2088
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 12:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote: Well, actually there's massive amounts of scientifically accurate evidence that says there isn't one, and a whole lot of people saying "I *can* hear a difference, but not if you test me on it!"
I guess I'm not human then as I can tell in a blind-hearing demonstration. If it's the same song or whatever. Difference is night and day. But you go ahead and believe your fantasy. That's just fine. Interesting that you selectively quoted me, and in doing so literally cut out the link which shows that people who make this claim can't back it up. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |

Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
1146
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 14:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'm still waiting for the CD version to come in the mail, let alone worrying about getting my hands on a vinyl copy... I'm currently taking bets on the following: - CCP Games becomes EA Games' property. - EVE Online will have Microtranctions everywhere. |
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