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Marginal Utility
Sinister Elite
Black Legion.
2
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Posted - 2013.08.20 04:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dear Capsuleers,
A recent post by my longtime friend and co-patriot in arms, Transmaritanus, has received considerable attention on the subject of the broken game mechanics involving Faction Warfare complexes, and the hordes of (assumable) neckbearded-pilots who manipulate them. In my own efforts to deal with this issue, I was instructed by GM Luthor to take the matter to the forums or the CSM. Since a former CEO of mine essentially quit EVE to play CSM, causing a political row over a certain R32 Moon he found convenient to "give away," I would rather avoid those sleazy politicians who are only really interested in a free trip to Iceland to experience the lovely fjords, lakes, and ladies. Yet I digress.
In reference to the issue, this KM has seen considerable attention: http://imgur.com/zqtBn3T . While we are proud of our stellar piloting abilities, the aforementioned Moa was only one of the most glaring examples of people exploiting The Problem. Now what is the problem?
At issue is the Loyalty Point (LP) / ISK reward based on risk at stake in Faction Warfare (FW) -- hitherto referred to as "The Problem". In order to clarify my colleague's remarks, I shall outline the situation as it currently stands.
1. CCP changed the structural composition of FW with the 2012 Retribution expansion, adding complexes accessed by ship-class restricted acceleration gates with the objective to "run down" a timer by orbiting a beacon to "capture" the site and thereby challenge the system occupancy for one's given militia.
2. The static 2/10 complexes littered throughout low-security space, a favourite avenue for frigate PVE/PVP, were removed in the hope that the new FW changes would provide dynamic content due to the restricted engagements of these new complexes.
3. At present, players are able to exploit the (arguably broken) mechanics of the FW system, producing "The Problem". In short, a 1 day alt is capable of orbiting a beacon, incurring no significant risk while yielding payable rewards that do not encourage emergent content.
In other words, the return-on-investment (ROI) on FW complexes outclass nearly every activity in EVE since they bear no financial risk to the player --- with the exception of gross stupidity, or sheer arrogance as in the KM example used by my friend and corpmate, Transmaritanus. (Full Disclosure: The Pilot, who must remain anonymous on this forum, mocked us in Local seconds before being scrammed --- to his obvious chagrin.)
4. The issue is not victims escaping their would-be executioners. Every active combat pilot accepts this as a fact of playing EVE, and only those who have not attained a suitable maturity in their PVP effectiveness openly lament it. I suspect the rest of us aspire to a Zen-like state or, failing such mental tranquility, turn to strong drink or other narcotic solace.
5. Players are able to see their approaching assailants -- whether rival FW militiamen or nefarious pirates -- on short D-scan before their opponents are able to warp upon them, due to the acceleration gate restrictions (since the most basic of these sites is restricted to T1 frigates, barring covert ships). The pilot is then able to cloak their ship, or warp away with impunity (for the most part) without fear. Since there is no real NPC threat at the fight, the FW plexer does not need any sort of tank or combat setup --- as many killed examples have revealed. While it is possible to kill such ships, it is absurdly difficult and (in the end) a negligible loss when the player is able to earn billions of ISK off this exploit.
There have been solutions proposed that range from gas clouds to prevent cloaking, warp disruption bubbles surrounding the immediate vicinity the pilot would be required to inhabit in order to run down a timer, targeted warp disruption from the structure, increasing NPCs in the sites, or resetting the timer whenever a pilot leaves the complex. All of these are valid suggestions, though the exact method remains open.
It is clear that the current system as it stands is a broken game mechanic as the LP returns for destroyed ships were revealed to be at the introduction of the Retribution expansion (which caused considerable anger due to certain CFC players making a Pharoah's ransom in ISK while at the same time crashing the entire faction market, in turn causing financial fallout still experienced to this day).
It behooves the GMs and Developers to re-examine the mechanics of the FW system. I realise that many conflict-adverse elements in the carebear population who have thrived in its exploit will oppose this recommendation, but it is certainly overdue.
Sincerely Yours,
M.
This message was provided by the Economic and Waste Disposal Commission of the Huvilma Tourism Company. Keep Huvilma beautiful -- remember to biomass frozen corpses in an ecologically responsible manner sensitive to the spiritual needs of the deceased. Or simply keep them in your personal Morgue to amaze and to entertain your cocktail guests. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises
Ad-Astra
17
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Posted - 2013.08.20 05:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that insulting the CSM and the devs isn't a very good way to get your point taken seriously.
I'd also like to point out that in the actual literal sense a day 1 alt would be blown out of space by the NPCs in the dungeon.
Also do you have an explanation, if the money doing this is as good as you say, why the price hasn't crashed as people jump to take advantage of it? If there were really minimal risk for such amazing ISK and so little effort then generally you would expect it to see more exploitation and a corresponding price drop from the flood of FWar LP items. |
Transmaritanus
Sinister Elite
Black Legion.
73
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Posted - 2013.08.20 06:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that insulting the CSM and the devs isn't a very good way to get your point taken seriously.
I'd also like to point out that in the actual literal sense a day 1 alt would be blown out of space by the NPCs in the dungeon.
Also do you have an explanation, if the money doing this is as good as you say, why the price hasn't crashed as people jump to take advantage of it? If there were really minimal risk for such amazing ISK and so little effort then generally you would expect it to see more exploitation and a corresponding price drop from the flood of FWar LP items.
I'm guessing you don't look at the prices of fw items, because they are crashed and have been for ages. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
1073
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Posted - 2013.08.20 07:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that insulting the CSM and the devs isn't a very good way to get your point taken seriously.
LOL. Sure.
Quote:I'd also like to point out that in the actual literal sense a day 1 alt would be blown out of space by the NPCs in the dungeon.
Completely false. You can kill the frigate rat and spin Novice plexes your first day in game. Train some gunnery skills overnight, and you can kill the dessy rat in Smalls. FW plex rats are a joke.
More efficiency is found when people clear the plexes of rats with their main and leave a trail of multiboxed day one alts behind to spin the timers down.
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War
56
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Posted - 2013.08.20 11:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
So the solution I am seeing here isn't necessarily to introduce any of the changes list above (or the ones in my own FW thread) but could be to simply make the plex rat unkillable by a ship that is not designed for fighting?
Novice:
t1 frigate with 4k ehp, 50-100 dps, has point and AB.
Small:
t1 destroyer; 5-7k ehp, 100-120 dps, point and AB
Medium:
t1 cruiser: 12-15k EHP, 150-200 dps, web and scram + MWD
Large:
T1 Battlecruiser, 30-45k EHP, 200-300dps, faction appropriate modules.
Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
581
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Posted - 2013.08.20 11:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
The mistake was removing the previous rat spawns from plexes.
But that wasn't a dev or csm failt. Was people bugging about it on the forum. Fault of CCP to listen to them instead of stay compliant with their own game design.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
770
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Posted - 2013.08.20 13:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
I could have used you in the months leading up to Retribution when I tried pleading, scolding, swearing at CCP/CSM to step back and think what they were doing when they declared themselves ready to incentivize (read: make into a farm) FW.
Would bid you welcome on the barricade, but I fear it is not much to look at here under the glaring neon signs advertising "unlimited risk free ISK!" at every entry point into FW.
Sura Sadiva wrote:The mistake was removing the previous rat spawns from plexes.
But that wasn't a dev or csm failt. Was people bugging about it on the forum. Fault of CCP to listen to them instead of stay compliant with their own game design.
That means it was their fault, the decision was theirs and theirs alone. The fact that they listened to the forums is besides the point as the general populace will take any skewing of the risk/reward ratio and it is CCPs responsibility to make sure that does not occur .. unfortunately once it became clear to people just how easy ISK would become it the calls for "MOAR!" became a thundering avalanche that completely drowned out the few of us who knew what would happen and how much damage it would do.
If they had only listened to one thing (they chose to only lift and pervert my FW specific rat idea) it should have been this:
- LP has no place in capturing space, it should however be doled out handsomely in exploiting said space after the fact.
Out of spite: I hope CCP listens to the horde instead of common sense when they give sovereignty the make-over that is so long overdue .. by truly breaking the game the message should come across .. so hang in there for a few more years, repair crews are on the way.
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Roime
Ten Thousand Years
Shinjiketo
3290
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 13:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
"The warp core stabilizing modules fitted on your ship create a strong warp field around your ship, which prevents the activation of this acceleration gate. In addition, attempting to be a massive **** has been noted by the authorities and you are now flagged as a suspect for the next 15 minutes. Good luck, soldier!"
Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude. |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA
C0VEN
135
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Posted - 2013.08.20 13:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1
This nonsense in FW must be ended.
Phantasm
- 150% speed bonus in cloak
- 2LY jump range
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
10
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Posted - 2013.08.20 13:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
1. Timer Rollback
2. More Rats in upgraded systems
3. Rats engage anyone that enters the plex that isn't in their faction
4. Get rid of allied militias (no more cross plexing) |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
581
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 14:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
LP systems works fine. So does warzone control.
Problem are not WCS itself (they should be nerfed in general, not only in FW, but this is a different topic).
Problem is lowering the bar to access and get reward from FW plexes that any pilot with few days of training can do them efficently in a stabbed T1 frigate.
This is like a call for alts and multiboxing.
Keeping a low entry barrier for FW is good for new players.
But "new" in EVE means 2-3 months old, not 2-3 days. Have to be managed. A "true" 2-3 days old new player is still struggling against the tutorial, doesn't even know what a WCS is and what FW is about. Old players alts take advantage of this.
The major mistake was removing rats.
Rats were a filter for ships setup, added some variable to the engagments inisde plexes, were a reward/income not related to the tier (so also an incentive for factions with very low tier) , and having the plex completetion time not fix brelated to the number of ships used and to their fit
This was CCP fault, yes, in listening to the "I want pure pvp duels not rats" forum whines, unable to see the global picture. Instead CCP had to keep it coherent with the FW as PVP/PVE hybrid original design.
But the current CCP trend is to make everything trivial and undersell.
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