| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Gronn
Offensive Logistics Inc
Excessum Gaming
3
   |
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I started thinking about this a while back when I remember the features that the old game GÇÿPrivateerGÇÖ hadGǪ this game is supposed to be GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ game but we are limited to the confines of what CCP perceive as balanced when it comes to the role of the ships we fly. Yes, I can put mining lasers on my Tempest or my Probe but I canGÇÖt put a strip miner on either. If I want to be a drone pilot, then I better be using a Gallente ship or I wonGÇÖt get a bonus or may not even have a drone bay, if I want to use projectile weapons, then I have to be flying a Minmatar ship to get a bonus. God forbid if I wanted a mining ship with more armor, better drone capacity and the ability to travel fasterGǪ Why donGÇÖt we have the ability to construct our ships in such a fashion that conforms to our play style? Who wouldnGÇÖt put a cruse launcher on a frigate? Who wouldnGÇÖt at least add armor to their mining barge? Who wouldnGÇÖt add some kind of assist boosters or larger rockets to their freighters without the loss of cargo space?
ItGÇÖs a GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ as long as you conform to their preset standardsGǪ |
Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
73
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
So using a shovel to build a sand castle is bad, and you want to use a rake instead, and have it be just as effective? |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Human behaviour to spoil everything and create "the most efficient" combo prevent such features. Once all people become responsible for an community/taking the consequences of their action into equation than it would be possible. But again if people become such there will be no need for Economy circle-jerk, governments and politicians.
So i guess it falls down to science fiction. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial
Shadow Directive
48
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gronn wrote:I started thinking about this a while back when I remember the features that the old game GÇÿPrivateerGÇÖ hadGǪ this game is supposed to be GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ game but we are limited to the confines of what CCP perceive as balanced when it comes to the role of the ships we fly. Yes, I can put mining lasers on my Tempest or my Probe but I canGÇÖt put a strip miner on either. If I want to be a drone pilot, then I better be using a Gallente ship or I wonGÇÖt get a bonus or may not even have a drone bay, if I want to use projectile weapons, then I have to be flying a Minmatar ship to get a bonus. God forbid if I wanted a mining ship with more armor, better drone capacity and the ability to travel fasterGǪ Why donGÇÖt we have the ability to construct our ships in such a fashion that conforms to our play style? Who wouldnGÇÖt put a cruse launcher on a frigate? Who wouldnGÇÖt at least add armor to their mining barge? Who wouldnGÇÖt add some kind of assist boosters or larger rockets to their freighters without the loss of cargo space?
ItGÇÖs a GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ as long as you conform to their preset standardsGǪ
Why is everyone so stuck on the sandbox thing? Eve isn't a sandbox. I'm sorry but CCP dictates what the **** you do. That's it, sorry. Want to put 5 MWD on your scorpion and use them all at once? You can't. Want to put a station inside your station? You can't. Want to blow up concord? You can't. Do you want to put 10 thousand little jet cans around a gate? You can't.
Eve is not a sandbox. It's certainly open-ended, but please stop calling it a sandbox. |
De'Veldrin
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
56
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gronn wrote:I started thinking about this a while back when I remember the features that the old game GÇÿPrivateerGÇÖ hadGǪ this game is supposed to be GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ game but we are limited to the confines of what CCP perceive as balanced when it comes to the role of the ships we fly. Yes, I can put mining lasers on my Tempest or my Probe but I canGÇÖt put a strip miner on either. If I want to be a drone pilot, then I better be using a Gallente ship or I wonGÇÖt get a bonus or may not even have a drone bay, if I want to use projectile weapons, then I have to be flying a Minmatar ship to get a bonus. God forbid if I wanted a mining ship with more armor, better drone capacity and the ability to travel fasterGǪ Why donGÇÖt we have the ability to construct our ships in such a fashion that conforms to our play style? Who wouldnGÇÖt put a cruse launcher on a frigate? Who wouldnGÇÖt at least add armor to their mining barge? Who wouldnGÇÖt add some kind of assist boosters or larger rockets to their freighters without the loss of cargo space?
ItGÇÖs a GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ as long as you conform to their preset standardsGǪ
Game balance trumps your needs and desires. Deal with it.
Unsub or don't.-á I don't care what your reasons are, and neither does anyone else.-á Just click the button and go away - or don't. |
Luxi Daphiti
Biotech Transtellar INC
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gronn wrote:
ItGÇÖs a GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ as long as you conform to their preset standardsGǪ
Real life is a bit like that, we can do what we like as long as it's within the constraints of society.
In Eve we live within the constraint of the major factions who produce the technology and such for us to use.
Even a completely anarchist environment will have natural constraints. Say for instance we lived in an IRL anarchy - you wouldn't be able to make a car into a tank, in much the same way you can't make a frigate into a battlecruiser.
At the end of the day, everything has been put in place to try and maximize our enjoyment whilst keeping as much diversity as possible. And most people are happy with it like this. Although you're more then welcome to develop your own sandbox game if you wish.
|
Tanya Fox
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:Gronn wrote:I started thinking about this a while back when I remember the features that the old game GÇÿPrivateerGÇÖ hadGǪ this game is supposed to be GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ game but we are limited to the confines of what CCP perceive as balanced when it comes to the role of the ships we fly. Yes, I can put mining lasers on my Tempest or my Probe but I canGÇÖt put a strip miner on either. If I want to be a drone pilot, then I better be using a Gallente ship or I wonGÇÖt get a bonus or may not even have a drone bay, if I want to use projectile weapons, then I have to be flying a Minmatar ship to get a bonus. God forbid if I wanted a mining ship with more armor, better drone capacity and the ability to travel fasterGǪ Why donGÇÖt we have the ability to construct our ships in such a fashion that conforms to our play style? Who wouldnGÇÖt put a cruse launcher on a frigate? Who wouldnGÇÖt at least add armor to their mining barge? Who wouldnGÇÖt add some kind of assist boosters or larger rockets to their freighters without the loss of cargo space?
ItGÇÖs a GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ as long as you conform to their preset standardsGǪ Why is everyone so stuck on the sandbox thing? Eve isn't a sandbox. I'm sorry but CCP dictates what the **** you do. That's it, sorry. Want to put 5 MWD on your scorpion and use them all at once? You can't. Want to put a station inside your station? You can't. Want to blow up concord? You can't. Do you want to put 10 thousand little jet cans around a gate? You can't. Eve is not a sandbox. It's certainly open-ended, but please stop calling it a sandbox.
Exactly, at least you get it.
+1 |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness
The Midget Mafia
187
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
because if you want a game where everyone flies the same thing and combat is resolved by ping speed and spamming M1 you should look elsewhere.
there should be no swiss army knife ship, for anyone
each has its pros, cons, strengths and weaknesses. It's called having a variety and some sort of balance even if it is rock paper scissors.
its what creates good fleet comps and makes the player decide if any course of action is the best course of action, it ain't BF2, don't try and play it like it is
and to the non-sandbox guys, even a sandbox has borders and some physical laws
you can't build a castle with dry sand, you can try all you want to, but its just not going to work out
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
132
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
All sand boxes, by definition, have boundries... what you are describing is a desert. 
Why can't I have a forklift that also preforms like a Formula 1 racer?
Why can't I have an oil tanker that also doubles as a jet ski?
Why can't I eat my cake and have it too?
Everything in life is a trade off, EVE does the best it can (within the constraints of modern technology) to bring that experience to you in a different setting.
To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
162
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
What it really boils down to is.
"What good is freedom if its meaningless?"
For example the first assisn's creed had an incredibly boring open world verses open world games like oblivion IV which had an extremly meaningful open world to the point you forget the reason why you started this journey.
Eve is trying to prevent the meaningless freedom syndrome from fully forming. Though this does restrict player creativity on ship builds at least it keeps things in focus when it comes to ships the most interactive thing in eve clients to the player is very significant. Though yes it can all be balanced in the it really doesnt force exploration into other hulls to try new ships out to find a new favorite and that is alot mor imporant than slapping a capitol ship launcher on a raven.
Until content and side tracking stuff can catch up I would not like to see free form ships at all. |
|
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
132
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:What it really boils down to is.
"What good is freedom if its meaningless?"
For example the first assisn's creed had an incredibly boring open world verses open world games like oblivion IV which had an extremly meaningful open world.
Eve is trying to prevent the meaningless freedom syndrome from fully forming. Though this does restrict player creativity on ship builds at least it keeps things in focus when it comes to ships the most interactive thing in eve clients to the player is very significant. Though yes it can all be balanced in the it really doesnt force exploration into other hulls to try new ships out to find a new favorite and that is alot mor imporant than slapping a capitol ship launcher on a raven.
To put a different spin on this, perhaps George Orwell had it right.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
War is peace.
Welcome to EVE. 
To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
I must admit that the potential for ship customization in EVE doesn't live up to my expectations, even if it's really good.
I hate the false limitations like slots and 900000 MW modules that take 100 MW on their intended ship. It's also boring that you can only ever fit 8 small turrets on a 1 km long battleship, or that you can't decide to lose a few turrets in exchange for more armor.
A counterexample would be MechWarrior 2 on PC. Now THAT was customization. The only limits were mass and heat generation. It was possible to fit a gankmech that would alpha strike like a madman then turn off for 30 seconds to dissipate heat. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
162
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:I must admit that the potential for ship customization in EVE doesn't live up to my expectations, even if it's really good.
I hate the false limitations like slots and 900000 MW modules that take 100 MW on their intended ship. It's also boring that you can only ever fit 8 small turrets on a 1 km long battleship, or that you can't decide to lose a few turrets in exchange for more armor.
A counterexample would be MechWarrior 2 on PC. Now THAT was customization. The only limits were mass and heat generation. It was possible to fit a gankmech that would alpha strike like a madman then turn off for 30 seconds to dissipate heat.
Speaking of mech warrior 2, mech warrior 5 bringing it back with pernament damage being possible forcing the installing of newer parts as older one wear out.
As for limitations I know they're arbitary and all but they're really meant to help ships stand out. maybe they could have done it the other way around make ships that specialize.
I mean lore wise its easier to explain with computer software. |
Petrus Blackshell
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote: Want to blow up concord? You can't.
Actually, if you play the Angel Sound mission arc...
|
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
36
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gronn wrote:ItGÇÖs a GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ as long as you conform to their preset standardsGǪ
again with this.. its the real world as long as you obey the laws of physics.... you do not "conform" by choice...you conform because you live.
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
97
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 17:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Here, I am playing in this sandbox, and I want to build a floating castle. Damnit, it falls down every time I try. But it should work, I'm in a sandbox, right!? |
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 18:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:All sand boxes, by definition, have boundries... what you are describing is a desert. Why can't I have a forklift that also preforms like a Formula 1 racer? Why can't I have an oil tanker that also doubles as a jet ski? Why can't I eat my cake and have it too? Everything in life is a trade off, EVE does the best it can (within the constraints of modern technology) to bring that experience to you in a different setting.
1. Force = mass x acceleration.
2. Pretty much the same as #1, except it's on water instead of a solid surface.
3. Someone left it out in the rain.
Your stuff goes here. |
Opertone
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 18:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
oh lord, what is sand box?
sandbox, this?
you talk about mysterious sand box, the complaint is also mysterious and uncertain.
please, tell us what you want eve to be, focus more on the subject.
edit: tell us what you want to find in the sandbox, when you dig real deep. |
Gronn
Offensive Logistics Inc
Excessum Gaming
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 20:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mehrdad Kor-Azor wrote:So using a shovel to build a sand castle is bad, and you want to use a rake instead, and have it be just as effective?
Really? So use a pickup truck as a race car or a Mac truck as a dragster doesn't happen? |
T' Elk
Clearly Compensating
The Dark Triad
85
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 20:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gronn wrote:Mehrdad Kor-Azor wrote:So using a shovel to build a sand castle is bad, and you want to use a rake instead, and have it be just as effective? Really? So use a pickup truck as a race car or a Mac truck as a dragster doesn't happen?
Pickups and larger trucks have the mechanical capability to be used in racing, but a rake simply physically cannot do what a shovel does.
God wears-áRay Ban Aviators. |
|
|
Imawuss
United Atheist League
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 20:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
Is this a real thread? Is everyone here trolling? Or is everyone posting about how they cant put 5 MWD's or 200 small turrets on their battleship, actually believe what they say? Then to say EVE is not a sandbox because you cant put all that crap on your ship? that is ********.
I dont know of ANY sandbox descent game that lets its characters fire 10 pistols at 1 time, or upgrade their car to have a 4 jet engines, or upgrade their ship so it ******* owns everything and is unkillable, 5 MWD's really dude? Your a moron.
Good troll thread, im astonished at the amount of retardation going on here.
If EVE is not a sandbox game then there are no sandbox games. |
Petrus Blackshell
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 20:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Imawuss wrote:Is this a real thread? Is everyone here trolling? Or is everyone posting about how they cant put 5 MWD's or 200 small turrets on their battleship, actually believe what they say? Then to say EVE is not a sandbox because you cant put all that crap on your ship? that is ********.
I dont know of ANY sandbox descent game that lets its characters fire 10 pistols at 1 time, or upgrade their car to have a 4 jet engines, or upgrade their ship so it ******* owns everything and is unkillable, 5 MWD's really dude? Your a moron.
Good troll thread, im astonished at the amount of retardation going on here.
If EVE is not a sandbox game then there are no sandbox games.
I think they might be thinking "sandbox" as in the mass of horrible user-created content called Second Life. |
Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 20:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Imawuss wrote:Is this a real thread?
No this is not real, we should just back away and just let it die.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 21:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well ... I would like to see more customization options for ship design. IMO it would be sweet if there were a class of ships where you got a hull and a set number of slots and then you got to pick how many of them would go to high, medium or low. Of course there would have to be some sort of trade offs, maybe cpu and power grid or something or other -- but more flexibility in design would open things up somewhat and make for more unpredictable fights. |
Petrus Blackshell
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 21:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Well ... I would like to see more customization options for ship design. IMO it would be sweet if there were a class of ships where you got a hull and a set number of slots and then you got to pick how many of them would go to high, medium or low. Of course there would have to be some sort of trade offs, maybe cpu and power grid or something or other -- but more flexibility in design would open things up somewhat and make for more unpredictable fights.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Strategic_Cruisers |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 21:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
its called a sand box because its upto you to do what you will in the sand. Of course theres restraints to it, in sand you can make the sand look like what ever you want but you cant build a rocket to go to the moon from it.
everyone arguing about the specific nature of an unlimited universe compared to a box of sand, well thats just sad.
When it all comes down to it: you either like sand, like to crap in the sand to ruin other people fun, or you can go play on the junglegym instead, byeeeee. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 21:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Well ... I would like to see more customization options for ship design. IMO it would be sweet if there were a class of ships where you got a hull and a set number of slots and then you got to pick how many of them would go to high, medium or low. Of course there would have to be some sort of trade offs, maybe cpu and power grid or something or other -- but more flexibility in design would open things up somewhat and make for more unpredictable fights. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Strategic_Cruisers
i dont know much about the sc ships -- but they seem to be more restrictive then what im talking about. I would like freedom -- just give me a total number of slots and let me decide where they go -- not just an extra one here or there because i get to add some subsystem. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
138
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 21:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Well ... I would like to see more customization options for ship design. IMO it would be sweet if there were a class of ships where you got a hull and a set number of slots and then you got to pick how many of them would go to high, medium or low. Of course there would have to be some sort of trade offs, maybe cpu and power grid or something or other -- but more flexibility in design would open things up somewhat and make for more unpredictable fights. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Strategic_Cruisers i dont know much about the sc ships -- but they seem to be more restrictive then what im talking about. I would like freedom -- just give me a total number of slots and let me decide where they go -- not just an extra one here or there because i get to add some subsystem.
Part of the charm of the game is that it gives some illusion of reality (yeah, I know).
Technology has limitations, it always will. The trick is how to portray that truth in a way that is both fun and simulates what could realistically (lol) be done. They have to provide for at least a modicum of "suspension of disbelief" for a player to feel invested in the game, and limitations provide challenges (within reason).
A game where you could walk in and design the most formidable star ship ever created directly after character creation would hold the interest of most people for about 5 minutes.
To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.28 22:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Igualmentedos wrote:Gronn wrote:I started thinking about this a while back when I remember the features that the old game GÇÿPrivateerGÇÖ hadGǪ this game is supposed to be GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ game but we are limited to the confines of what CCP perceive as balanced when it comes to the role of the ships we fly. Yes, I can put mining lasers on my Tempest or my Probe but I canGÇÖt put a strip miner on either. If I want to be a drone pilot, then I better be using a Gallente ship or I wonGÇÖt get a bonus or may not even have a drone bay, if I want to use projectile weapons, then I have to be flying a Minmatar ship to get a bonus. God forbid if I wanted a mining ship with more armor, better drone capacity and the ability to travel fasterGǪ Why donGÇÖt we have the ability to construct our ships in such a fashion that conforms to our play style? Who wouldnGÇÖt put a cruse launcher on a frigate? Who wouldnGÇÖt at least add armor to their mining barge? Who wouldnGÇÖt add some kind of assist boosters or larger rockets to their freighters without the loss of cargo space?
ItGÇÖs a GÇÿsandboxGÇÖ as long as you conform to their preset standardsGǪ Why is everyone so stuck on the sandbox thing? Eve isn't a sandbox. I'm sorry but CCP dictates what the **** you do. That's it, sorry. Want to put 5 MWD on your scorpion and use them all at once? You can't. Want to put a station inside your station? You can't. Want to blow up concord? You can't. Do you want to put 10 thousand little jet cans around a gate? You can't. Eve is not a sandbox. It's certainly open-ended, but please stop calling it a sandbox.
I've never researched what it means to be a true "sandbox" game, so maybe reality doesn't apply, but what some people are calling a sandbox seems to be more of a world without limits.
A real sandbox has boundaries - It's not an infinite space
It has limitations as far as what you can do with the sand - You can't violate the rules of physics or reality
What you can do is dictated by the tools you are given - A bare sandbox is actually pretty limited in that if you can't make it with your bare hands, you can't make it at all unless someone gives you tools
CCP doesn't dictate what you do, but what the limits are and the tools you have, and besides, if there are no limits then the choices you make are meaningless and trivial. |
Gronn
Offensive Logistics Inc
Excessum Gaming
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.29 00:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
T' Elk wrote:Gronn wrote:Mehrdad Kor-Azor wrote:So using a shovel to build a sand castle is bad, and you want to use a rake instead, and have it be just as effective? Really? So use a pickup truck as a race car or a Mac truck as a dragster doesn't happen? Pickups and larger trucks have the mechanical capability to be used in racing, but a rake simply physically cannot do what a shovel does.
I guess you prove my point. Being mechanically inclined, I'd adapt something to make the rake work as a shovel if I need or wanted it to or if there wasn't a better solution available.
No, I'm not trolling, I'd like to see more flexability on ship customization; like teh ability to add a drone bay to a ship, or using more than 5 drones if I didn't feel like having guns on a smaller ship.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |