| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kayden Drake
   |
Posted - 2005.12.30 08:11:00 -
[1]
I know there are some viable setups out there involving Tachyons, but when u compare the numbers to the megabeam... well i got very dissapointed.
If u take a t2 megabeam and a t2 tach u get:
Megabeam: 3.6 base dmgmod = 5.589 with L laser 5, surg strike 5, L beam spec 4 (not that unreasonable),
and a base ROF of 9 = 6.48 w/ rapid firing 5 and gunnery 5. This comes out to (with a multifreq) roughly 41.59 raw dmg/second (with just base stats its 19.2 dps)
Tachyon: 5.1 base dmgmod = 7.91775 with same skills applied as above, and a ROF of 9 sec (from 12.5). This comes out to 42.228 raw dps (base of 19.584)
41.59 raw dps compared to 42.228?? thats an increase of about .638 dps... even if u fitted 8 of these u only an incrase of 5.104 dps compared to 8 megabeam 2s. Anyone else see any problems with these numbers?
Granted the tachyon does have 6k higher opt range with sharpshooter 5, and 5k more fallof with trajectory analysis 5 (roughly 11k more viable usage)
It also has roughly 9% worse tracking, 550 more PG (495 with adv weapon upgrades 5) and 5 more CPU (3.75 with weapon upgrades 5).
It also uses 35.625 per shot compared with the megabeams 24.375 per shot (with amarr BS 5 and controlled bursts 5). This comes down to 3.95833 cap per sec compared with 3.779 from the mega beam. This isnt that much difference, which also suprised me. I expected tachyon to use much more than roughly 5% more cap than megabeams (of course this is in the tachyons favor, just sorta suprising).
Something about this seems off to me.. unless u are setup with tachs JUST for sniping and want to 1 volley things, they seem sorta useless. I dont see enough difference between the two to warrant using tachs over megabeams for all except the above situation (excluding pulses which most people tend to use these days lol).
Personally i think they should lower the ROF on tachs and leave the rest alone. Not only would this really help their DPS, they also would raise its cap usage, making them harder to use (like they should be). This would open them up to people who want to go more offensive vs big targets than if they set their BS's up with megabeams, yet not be a sniper and still have some defence. Then if pilots want to go close for max damage they can use pulses, but if they dont want to go that close they can use megas if they favor defence, and tachs if they favor offence. Then for pure sniping, i guess tachs again.
I dont think the ROF should be lowered by that much of course, definately dont want to make megabeams usless, but maybe just hack 1 or 2 seconds off of the Tachs ROF, to give it something more than .638 more dps than the megabeam...
What do u guys think?
|
Kinsy
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 08:22:00 -
[2]
Spot on tbh.
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 08:34:00 -
[3]
after i've seen tanked AC tempest(yay with plates) getting ganked by tachgeddon at 5km, because he had web... no.
Tbh, i think tachgeddon has highest 'longrange guns' dps.
HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] >
they ebayed the bs for
grain
|
Kayden Drake
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 08:50:00 -
[4]
Im not saying that tachs arent good, im just saying they arent different enough from megabeams to warrant their use in all except extreme ranged situations. From what i calculated above, ure friend would have died ALMOST as quickly (maybe even the same if the tachs tracking caused a few misses the megabeams wouldnt have had) if the geddon was decked out with megabeams instead of tachs, and it would have had muuuch more PG to spare.
|
Kayden Drake
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 09:00:00 -
[5]
BTW, incase anyone is curious, using the same skill levels and calculations as above the megapulse 2 game out to 47.314 raw dps (roughly), which to me looks about right in comparision with the megabeam.
I think personally that tachs dps should be ABOUT the same as megapulses once the ROF gets lowered. This would make it a viable option for apocs and geddons to do the same damage at long range as they can up closer, but because of the immense PG needs and the (once ROF is changed) heavy cap needs, not nearly as sustainable and tankable as its close range, pulse weilding or its megabeam toting but lower dps counterparts.
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 09:19:00 -
[6]
just a question:
You have best long range dps on geddon, and second best alpha strike. So what exactly do you want now?
HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] >
they ebayed the bs for
grain
|
Testy Mctest
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 09:19:00 -
[7]
For the game to work at it's best, every gun (and indeed, module) should ideally be different enough so that you're forced to make choices when you set up your ships.
It seems to me from your numbers (my Amarr skills are weak so this isnt from any great experience) that while Tachs have an advantage and a disadvantage, it may not quite enough of a difference from megas to really make you make a choice on your guns. However, Im sure some people would argue that there is plenty of difference in a gun with an extra 11km range and higher dps (however slight) despite its advantages.
I dont think it's broken enough that you'll see any sort of change any time soon. Theres too many guns that have to actually be made properly usable before they do tweaking on existing 'useful' guns.
Educating Eve forum denizens as to the error of their ways since 2005. |
Kayden Drake
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 09:22:00 -
[8]
Read the edit on my last post, srry i was a little slow at typing it in it seems 
|
Jorev
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 09:27:00 -
[9]
Sounds like the beams need nerfing really. |
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 09:30:00 -
[10]
from what i've seen, tachs work best on geddon, and aren't sustainable anyway, (unless you fill mids with rechargers)...
I think those guns were meant for battery (apoc) but as you need RCU on poc to fit them, it is better to fit 2 rcus on geddon and get dmg bonus and still same number of free lowslots :)
Maybe they need a little tweaking to make them a bit different, but it would be more of cosmetic thing than really needed.
HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] >
they ebayed the bs for
grain
|
Kayden Drake
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 09:40:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: LUKEC
I think those guns were meant for battery (apoc) but as you need RCU on poc to fit them, it is better to fit 2 rcus on geddon and get dmg bonus and still same number of free lowslots :)
The only problem with that is, unless ure sniping or dieing for that range bonus, there isnt really enough damage justification to go for the higher fitting reqs and cons to use the tach instead of just using the megabeam, and put a heatsink or tanking gear in the lowslot u save from the RCU. They just seem sorta useless when it comes to non sniping situations in comparison (tho yes they do still work).
Originally by: LUKEC
Maybe they need a little tweaking to make them a bit different, but it would be more of cosmetic thing than really needed.
Yup, just about 
|
Lucian Alucard
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 09:54:00 -
[12]
Honestly I would be happy if they up'd the useable range from 11km differance to a 30km differance and increased the damage mod by .5 but slowed the rof down by a second.
The people who think RMR is cool are coincidently the same people who paid to see Gili.
|
St Dragon
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 10:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: LUKEC
from what i've seen, tachs work best on geddon, and aren't sustainable anyway, (unless you fill mids with rechargers)...
I think those guns were meant for battery (apoc) but as you need RCU on poc to fit them, it is better to fit 2 rcus on geddon and get dmg bonus and still same number of free lowslots :)
Maybe they need a little tweaking to make them a bit different, but it would be more of cosmetic thing than really needed.
Then Perhaps its not the tachyons that need fixing but the ships 
|
Liu Kaskakka
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 11:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jorev
Sounds like the beams need nerfing really.
Yeah, ridiculously overpowered, NERF tbfh!
King Liu is RIGHT!!
|
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 11:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Yeah, ridiculously overpowered, NERF tbfh!
Leave Jita already, and i might take you serious. 
On topic, Tachs need something. Not neccesarily a boost, just something that sets them apart from Mega Beams a tad more.
|
Testy Mctest
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 11:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Yeah, ridiculously overpowered, NERF tbfh!
Leave Jita already, and i might take you serious.
On topic, Tachs need something. Not neccesarily a boost, just something that sets them apart from Mega Beams a tad more.
Longer range, less tracking, less dps?
Educating Eve forum denizens as to the error of their ways since 2005. |
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 11:53:00 -
[17]
well, if you plan to boost tachs... 600mm rails for gallete plz:)
HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] >
they ebayed the bs for
grain
|
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 11:55:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Longer range, less tracking, less dps?
Yes, let's make it useless. It already does DpS that is so near the Mega Beam its not worth fitting. Longer range, and keep the rest of the stats the same.
|
Hast
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 11:59:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Hast on 30/12/2005 11:59:58
Originally by: LUKEC
well, if you plan to boost tachs... 600mm rails for gallete plz:)
I wont give you a mm over 500 tbfh
edit: 2000mm howie kthx
|
Testy Mctest
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 12:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Longer range, less tracking, less dps?
Yes, let's make it useless. It already does DpS that is so near the Mega Beam its not worth fitting. Longer range, and keep the rest of the stats the same.
*shrug* I didnt say it was better, I said it was different :P
Educating Eve forum denizens as to the error of their ways since 2005. |
Kayden Drake
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 16:59:00 -
[21]
As been said, tachs just need something to set it apart from megabeams so some people can use them and they have an advantage with a certain playstyle or in certain situations.
I suggested higher cap use and higher dps, so it could be ranged yet still do pulselaser-ish dps, but would sort of gimp any other functionalities on the ship (mainly defence).But i guess higher range would do too. Only problem i can see with that would be is that if not carefully implemented that could easily turn the tach into THE sniping weapon.
And with the idea of higher range and lower tracking.. sorta seems like we are trying to turn the tach into a howitzer lol.
Personally i think the extreme ranges should be left to the Railguns and Howies, but as long as its something that sets the tach apart from megabeams w/o screwing over balance its good
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 17:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Yeah, ridiculously overpowered, NERF tbfh!
Leave Jita already, and i might take you serious.
On topic, Tachs need something. Not neccesarily a boost, just something that sets them apart from Mega Beams a tad more.
Longer range, less tracking, less dps?
No. They don't need to be able to snipe better. They just nerfed arty because of that, ffs.
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Sarmaul
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 17:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hast
2000mm howie kthx
marry me?
-------------
Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Eyeshadow
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 17:28:00 -
[24]
Originally by: LUKEC
Tbh, i think tachgeddon has highest 'longrange guns' dps.
for about 30 seconds til said geddon runs out of cap due to the enormous amount of cap tachs use
My Latest Vid (16/11/05) |
Drunkeh
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 17:46:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Drunkeh on 30/12/2005 17:46:08
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
just something that sets them apart from Mega Beams a tad more.
K, nerf megabeam damage, then there is a reason to use tachs.
|
ElCoCo
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 17:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Drunkeh
K, nerf megabeam damage, then there is a reason to use tachs.
Quick delete that post! 
|
LUKEC
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 18:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: LUKEC on 30/12/2005 18:13:27
Originally by: Eyeshadow
Originally by: LUKEC
Tbh, i think tachgeddon has highest 'longrange guns' dps.
for about 30 seconds til said geddon runs out of cap due to the enormous amount of cap tachs use
Actually it had enough cap for 100+ seconds(0 cap mods)... with 6 heatsinks and MF crystals... now it can have enough relays to sustain it.
But for some reason ppl prefer wcs or plates:)
Base tachgeddon with all skills at lvl5 has enough cap for 21 volleys with MF, no cap recharge taken into account. That makes 55k dmg with MF(0 dmg mods)... i guess it is enough to kill a bs or 2.
HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] >
they ebayed the bs for
grain
|
Josarian Lysandor
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 18:14:00 -
[28]
How about remove Tachs.
As cool as they are, I don't see the need for em at all.
~Victory is the weakness of the enemy.
I began as ActiveX, I am no longer. I became Sobeseki Pawi, I will be no longer. |
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 19:41:00 -
[29]
It's not tachs that need love, but megabeams that need some tiny nerfage in this case.
Tachs and megabeams were fine, post-rmr they're even better since the4 platforms they are mounted on got boosted most of all platforms of their class in rmr.
_______________________________________________
Power to the players !
|
Grimpak
|
Posted - 2005.12.30 20:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Hast
Edited by: Hast on 30/12/2005 11:59:58
Originally by: LUKEC
well, if you plan to boost tachs... 600mm rails for gallete plz:)
I wont give you a mm over 500 tbfh
edit: 2000mm howie kthx
and caldari would need a battleship sized citadel launcher then
-------------------
Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |