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Heavy nerf on t2 missiles

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WiseMagic	Posted - 2005.12.30 13:47:00 - [1] why CCP why, what is the point in tarining for these things and then when for e.g a raven with the launchers full of rage torps gets a -20%bonus to cap recharge rate and that for every frickin launcher, the javelin I don't realy mind being slow but haveing a capo recharge rate of 1500secs is a bit over the top don't ya think. Change that plz maybe only 1x the -20% cap recharge rate reduction but not for every launcher.
Tha Tyger	Posted - 2005.12.30 14:02:00 - [2] Must agree that TII ammo has a lot of downsides =/ I knew it was going to be more specialized ammo. But at the moment I can't see why you would like to train for this ammo as you get a omg penalty on your ship =/ (fun in pvp with a cap recharge rate as low as british humor and the speed of a dead frog =/ ). Well just my opinion, I bet plenty of people are happy with it
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.30 14:10:00 - [3] Its a bug. All tech2 ammo penalties should be a 1 off for using, not stacked across how many guns/launchers you have it fitted in. It will be fixed, soonÖ My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.30 14:18:00 - [4] "Its a bug. All tech2 ammo penalties should be a 1 off for using, not stacked across how many guns/launchers you have it fitted in. It will be fixed, soonÖ" Not sure at all if that's a bug, actually ^^;; since the penalties get lesser as the size of missiles grow... which would indicate they take into account larger number of launchers on bigger ships, which makes the total penalty somewhat the same across the board o.O
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.30 14:35:00 - [5] eeerh, anyone notice yet that javelin missiles are absolutely godlike ? I mean, what is the downside again ? Right. Tech2 ammo should never have been, not in this form, let alone tha tthere is any right to whine about your ammo not being friggin uber enough. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Wesley Harding	Posted - 2005.12.30 14:39:00 - [6] Missles that consume cap would have been better. At least you could manage your capacitor instead of totally ruining it just by loading them in. As for the precision ones, instead of slowing you down, how about having to slow yourself down in order to fire them?
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.30 14:46:00 - [7] "eeerh, anyone notice yet that javelin missiles are absolutely godlike ?" No, no one; ever; they suck; hush, goddamit >>;; (am trying to train the torp spec before they nerf it so i can fire a few while they're still cool >.<;
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2005.12.30 15:31:00 - [8] i use precision cruise missiles on my raven, i go 40ms when all launchers loaded, but i do full dmg on cruisers - and way too much dmg on frigs..
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.12.30 15:51:00 - [9] Originally by: Rod Blaine eeerh, anyone notice yet that javelin missiles are absolutely godlike ? I mean, what is the downside again ? Right. Tech2 ammo should never have been, not in this form, let alone tha tthere is any right to whine about your ammo not being friggin uber enough. AGREED! It's a farce :/ Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm. "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Robotek Hybrid	Posted - 2005.12.30 15:55:00 - [10] 20% is a little much tbh
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.12.30 15:56:00 - [11] Tech2 precision missiles pretty much make the entire missile changes void. "Let's have Cruise Missiles to less damage to small ships, then add Cruise Missiles that do more damage to small ships again." Sounds pretty pointless to me tbfh.
The Wizz117	Posted - 2005.12.30 16:45:00 - [12] Edited by: The Wizz117 on 30/12/2005 16:56:24 did u guyz know that these t2 missiles not only give 20% less cap, they also also fly slower
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.30 16:51:00 - [13] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 30/12/2005 16:54:18 Originally by: The Wizz117 did u guyz know that these t2 missiles and torps also fly 2x as slow? Eerh, no they dont. And who cares anyway ? I mean, you get to do max damage against cruisers, and not cruise missile damage, but tech1 torp damage ffs. It's insane. I honestly dont know what CCP were thinking when they did tech2 ammo. Javelins aren't the only problem, but they are the most obvious one. We'll see more issues crop up soon enough once t2 ammo gets around more. People saying the ammo is nerfed too hard need a reality check. Hell, even losing all your cap recharge is no issue tbh, use a friggin injector on your raven with those torps and you've worked around it. Not like injector setups on Ravens aren't already out of whack. I'm quite glad I've got a char with some missile specialisation. I've got it training up cruise 5 atm, tech2 missiles here I come. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
The Wizz117	Posted - 2005.12.30 17:00:00 - [14] Edited by: The Wizz117 on 30/12/2005 17:02:01 Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 30/12/2005 16:54:18 Originally by: The Wizz117 did u guyz know that these t2 missiles and torps also fly 2x as slow? Eerh, no they dont. And who cares anyway ? I mean, you get to do max damage against cruisers, and not cruise missile damage, but tech1 torp damage ffs. It's insane. I honestly dont know what CCP were thinking when they did tech2 ammo. Javelins aren't the only problem, but they are the most obvious one. We'll see more issues crop up soon enough once t2 ammo gets around more. People saying the ammo is nerfed too hard need a reality check. Hell, even losing all your cap recharge is no issue tbh, use a friggin injector on your raven with those torps and you've worked around it. Not like injector setups on Ravens aren't already out of whack. I'm quite glad I've got a char with some missile specialisation. I've got it training up cruise 5 atm, tech2 missiles here I come. i looked it up again and yes they fly slower! ok not 2x as slow but the cruise do fly 1000 km/s slower and the torps fly 250km/s slower but i found somting way worse: the standart torp exp radius: 400 the t2 one: 1000 CHEK INFO URSELF ! EDIT: explosion velocity standart torp:250 t2 torp explosion velocity: 100. ROFL u can not use em vs battle ships, i would't even use em against dreadnoughts. and they are to expensive to shoot them at pos's
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.30 17:03:00 - [15] Edited by: j0sephine on 30/12/2005 17:04:16 "People saying the ammo is nerfed too hard need a reality check." Well, to be more exact some of the new ammo is nerfed too hard, while penalties on some other of that new ammo don't really matter in practice. In particular, the low end of missiles (rockets, lights) is nerfed stupid. Middle range has precision missiles which are godly for taking out small stuff, and the 'high damage' which is pretty pointless given the amount of cap charges you can carry even if you actually fit the cap booster on cruiser. On the high end, all types are useful for something. For gun ammo it's slightly different and not as clear cut, but that's another story...
Nanus Parkite	Posted - 2005.12.30 17:20:00 - [16] Originally by: The Wizz117 Edited by: The Wizz117 on 30/12/2005 17:02:01 i looked it up again and yes they fly slower! ok not 2x as slow but the cruise do fly 1000 km/s slower and the torps fly 250km/s slower but i found somting way worse: the standart torp exp radius: 400 the t2 one: 1000 CHEK INFO URSELF ! EDIT: explosion velocity standart torp:250 t2 torp explosion velocity: 100. ROFL u can not use em vs battle ships, i would't even use em against dreadnoughts. and they are to expensive to shoot them at pos's OMFG but when I looked they flew way faster and had much better splosion radius and splosion vellocitey. But wait! Lo and behold theres 2 types of tech II missiles. I must have been really stupid to miss that...
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.12.30 17:31:00 - [17] Someone remind me of the downside to javelin torps? Torp damage at cruise speed. For naff all penalty. Yeah that makes sense Atleast the javelin railgun ammo nerfs ya tracking to buggery. Do something to missiles to have the same effect. Right now, a javelin torp raven is just too uber imo My Latest Vid (16/11/05)
000Hunter000	Posted - 2005.12.30 17:43:00 - [18] Hm yes, still on Cruise missile L5 atm, haven't given up on that yet cause i hardly moe around in the raven while doing missions anyways (whats the point of orbitting a frig in a deadspace hehe) so those hi prec CM's will rox0rs i hope!!! Haven't found any heavy hi prec missiles yet even though i can allready use em, anyone know where those are sold? i'm in verge atm.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.30 19:49:00 - [19] Originally by: The Wizz117 Edited by: The Wizz117 on 30/12/2005 17:02:01 Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 30/12/2005 16:54:18 Originally by: The Wizz117 did u guyz know that these t2 missiles and torps also fly 2x as slow? Eerh, no they dont. And who cares anyway ? I mean, you get to do max damage against cruisers, and not cruise missile damage, but tech1 torp damage ffs. It's insane. I honestly dont know what CCP were thinking when they did tech2 ammo. Javelins aren't the only problem, but they are the most obvious one. We'll see more issues crop up soon enough once t2 ammo gets around more. People saying the ammo is nerfed too hard need a reality check. Hell, even losing all your cap recharge is no issue tbh, use a friggin injector on your raven with those torps and you've worked around it. Not like injector setups on Ravens aren't already out of whack. I'm quite glad I've got a char with some missile specialisation. I've got it training up cruise 5 atm, tech2 missiles here I come. i looked it up again and yes they fly slower! ok not 2x as slow but the cruise do fly 1000 km/s slower and the torps fly 250km/s slower but i found somting way worse: the standart torp exp radius: 400 the t2 one: 1000 CHEK INFO URSELF ! EDIT: explosion velocity standart torp:250 t2 torp explosion velocity: 100. ROFL u can not use em vs battle ships, i would't even use em against dreadnoughts. and they are to expensive to shoot them at pos's I assume you mean Rage missiles or something ? Javelins are faster, not slower. They also hit small vessels much better, not worse. And still they do more damage then thech 1 ? For what ? A ship speed penalty ? omgrofl, and you dare to whine !!! Rage torps is what you probably mean. All I knwo about them is that they hit for omgwtfpwn damage, but wont hit for full damage against anything but a triple webbed BS that is painted six times over. Well, for the base damage they do, that seems quite fine to me. As for the turret ammo, some is crap, some is decent, some has too few drawbacks, like the long ranged stuff that does thorium damage at iron range with no practical drawback. It all depends on situation of course. And that is what CCP clearly had in mind: creating specialised ammo that will outperform everything else if given the right circumstances, but sucks in most other circumstances. While that is all good, and fine with me, they clearly missed that point on a few occasions here, javelins being one that hurts twice since they not only have no drawback for larger ships, they also undo the changes made to missiles in the first place that restored balance somewhat. Oh, and now we have recons and interdictors, I don't really think we need more ways to kill small ships fast. Javelins need to go, and the rest needs waaay more thinking. _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
Metternich Stele	Posted - 2005.12.30 20:14:00 - [20] Edited by: Metternich Stele on 30/12/2005 20:18:18 To kill a good frigate pilot in a Raven requires a specially gimped setup and cruise missile spec etc... Oh no my cheap ass frig got killed by a highly specialised fitting / highly trained / very expensive BS - this is clearly so very wrong! I could have warped away in my insta warp invulnerability machine - but I'm a bit dumb... We are frig pilots CCP we needed our invulnerability card at all times or we won't play with you - boohoo Death to frigates and frigate pilots...
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.12.30 20:23:00 - [21] Originally by: Metternich Stele Edited by: Metternich Stele on 30/12/2005 20:18:18 To kill a good frigate pilot in a Raven requires a specially gimped setup and cruise missile spec etc... Oh no my cheap ass frig got killed by a highly specialised fitting / highly trained / very expensive BS - this is clearly so very wrong! I could have warped away in my insta warp invulnerability machine - but I'm a bit dumb... We are frig pilots CCP we needed our invulnerability card at all times or we won't play with you - boohoo Death to frigates and frigate pilots... Well, it doesnt need a specialised setup. It only needs a decently trained pilot (I'd say about 90% of the people I ever fly with in pvp have their tech2 gunnery/missile of choice trained up) when you fly a raven or scorp now does it ? However, when you fly anythign else it does.... wait, that's not right. Also, when you cant use tech2 weapons you get to pwn your own setup just to have some frig defence, yet when you can use them, you don't need to do that all of a sudden ? I don't think it's a good idea to give cruise missile specialisation the added bonus of "bonus: ability to fit a cookie cutter setup for all eventualities again, like the Raven we nerfed three months ago could". _______________________________________________ Power to the players !
BurnHard	Posted - 2005.12.30 20:34:00 - [22] I still can't work out if the people saying the new missiles are crap are trying to get others to part with their BPO's at a good price. I personally put mine into PE/ME research as that does add value. In the mean-time, the jury is out. Some say the penalties make this ammo useless, others say it's awesome. I got a Havoc Fury Heavy BPO the other day btw.
Metternich Stele	Posted - 2005.12.30 20:38:00 - [23] Edited by: Metternich Stele on 30/12/2005 20:44:04 Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Metternich Stele Edited by: Metternich Stele on 30/12/2005 20:18:18 To kill a good frigate pilot in a Raven requires a specially gimped setup and cruise missile spec etc... Oh no my cheap ass frig got killed by a highly specialised fitting / highly trained / very expensive BS - this is clearly so very wrong! I could have warped away in my insta warp invulnerability machine - but I'm a bit dumb... We are frig pilots CCP we needed our invulnerability card at all times or we won't play with you - boohoo Death to frigates and frigate pilots... Well, it doesnt need a specialised setup. It only needs a decently trained pilot (I'd say about 90% of the people I ever fly with in pvp have their tech2 gunnery/missile of choice trained up) when you fly a raven or scorp now does it ? However, when you fly anythign else it does.... wait, that's not right. Also, when you cant use tech2 weapons you get to pwn your own setup just to have some frig defence, yet when you can use them, you don't need to do that all of a sudden ? I don't think it's a good idea to give cruise missile specialisation the added bonus of "bonus: ability to fit a cookie cutter setup for all eventualities again, like the Raven we nerfed three months ago could". I lock a ceptor in a Raven in how many seconds without multiple sensor boosters? How fast does that MWD / nano ceptor go again? How many webbers do I need to bring him to a complete halt? How insta-quick does it align for warp? Do I no longer need a scrambler? How many slots have I got left now for tanking enemy BS that may be around? Remember - Not everyone fights blob wars or was that bob wars?
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.12.30 21:20:00 - [24] i dunno but in this tournament ive been destroyed by javalin mjolnir and fury paradise cruise every match... and yet.. my team advances! ------
Pontifex Arma	Posted - 2005.12.31 00:27:00 - [25] The "Javelin" type torps seem to have the advantage of hitting as well as cruise missiles with the only disadvantage of slowing your ship. They are selling very well for my corp.
Al Thorr	Posted - 2005.12.31 01:05:00 - [26] just my two iskies Since when has a Battleship relied on speed ? yes I can understand the nerfs to cruisers and frigates ( my Cerb doesnt have a cap recharge as such when fury gimped) why not nerf the targetting time for the javelins after all they hit for wonderful damage so let the time taken to lock be nerfed a bit. Only an opinion not a flame Regards Al Thorr Why are warp core stabilisers known as toilets ? (ie WC s)
Pontifex Arma	Posted - 2005.12.31 04:52:00 - [27] Al, No flame from me mate. What you say makes prefect sense, slowing down a battleship is hardly a penalty at all. Which is why these babies sell like hotcakes :)
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2005.12.31 08:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists i use precision cruise missiles on my raven, i go 40ms when all launchers loaded, but i do full dmg on cruisers - and way too much dmg on frigs.. So T2 precision crusies unnerfed the Raven vs frigs eh? Originally by: Asnar Bush:but most importantly wtf was my carrier doing without support? Admiral: well sorry mr president, guess you're not that stupid after all..... Bush: /me shoots Admiral
WiseMagic	Posted - 2005.12.31 10:38:00 - [29] Edited by: WiseMagic on 31/12/2005 10:45:47 Edited by: WiseMagic on 31/12/2005 10:41:13 Edited by: WiseMagic on 31/12/2005 10:40:35 Guys I didn't say nething bad about Javelin Torps they are very powerfull atm and that might be changed since Caldari ships are always nerf first because we have so many peeps crying "ohh no the Raven can pop my ship again better cry so CCP does change it", but the rage stacking the penalty is stupid 1500sec cap recharge time menas 0 shield tanking unless one does use injectors and even then its gets hard to tank at all.
WiseMagic	Posted - 2005.12.31 10:43:00 - [30] Edited by: WiseMagic on 31/12/2005 10:43:30

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