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Viceversa Rotten Kimchi Squadron Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2013.08.22 04:46:00 - [1] - Quote Hi, I'd like to discuss about sentry drone mechanism. My expression in English may be poor, but please don't be sarcastic. Usually drones have limited control range, which means you cannot manipulate drone remotely further than your skills permit. That is what we call "drone control range", and we can expand the range up to 60km with all level 5 skills trained. In case of normal combat drones, like warriors or ogres, we can understand this control range limits the area that we can deliver DPS and effectively attack the targets. However in case of sentry drones, actually they do not move, their dps cannot be delivered more than the "drone control range, and it seems to have no problem at that moment. If we define the meaning of "drone control range" is the distance between ship and drones, then the we can expect those sentry drones to attack enemies within optimal range where ever they are. However the system defines drone control range is the distance between drones and locked target. So if you want to attack enemy at more than 60km, then you need to fit drone link augmentor(DLA) regardless of the optimal range of sentry drones, and this becomes huge penalty when we use sentry drones. When we use Wargen II, it has 60km optimal and it could be expanded by ship bonus or omni tracking link module, but it requires DLA additionaly. As long as we increase the optimal range of sentry drones for any tactical reason, we are force to fit DLA and it consumes high slots which is critical limitation. If we want to sharpshoot at more than 150kmk range with sentry drones, we need at least 5 DLAs So I'd like to suggest to define "drone control range" as the distance between the ship and drones. We don't want to fit 4 DLAs at high slots, it really limits the usage of sentry drones.
Guyner Kashnap Sadnier 0	Posted - 2013.08.22 04:57:00 - [2] - Quote I agree
Jita Gundam Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.08.22 04:59:00 - [3] - Quote +1 drone control range is distance between the ship and drones, not drones and locked target.
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2013.08.22 06:23:00 - [4] - Quote Jita Gundam wrote: drone control range is distance between the ship and drones, not drones and locked target. No, "drone control range" is from your ship to target. Range between your ship and drones is mostly irrelevant. http://eve-search.com/thread/1505355-0/page/all#16
Tragedy The Creepshow 77	Posted - 2013.08.22 06:30:00 - [5] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Jita Gundam wrote: drone control range is distance between the ship and drones, not drones and locked target. No, "drone control range" is from your ship to target. Range between your ship and drones is mostly irrelevant. http://eve-search.com/thread/1505355-0/page/all#16 Thats what hes saying he wanted. He wasnt saying thats what it is.
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2013.08.22 06:33:00 - [6] - Quote Tragedy wrote: Thats what hes saying he wanted. He wasnt saying thats what it is. OP wants drone control range to be range between your ship and drones, not range between your ship and target (current).
Noton Alcyone The Shadow Phoenix Fleet Provoke. 0	Posted - 2013.08.22 07:26:00 - [7] - Quote I don't know about sentry drones because I am missile user but if you're right it must be fixed the drone control range is different with drone can shooting someone can say is a penalty but nope at first you can think about cruise missile We can throw cruise missile more than 100km but if you're noob you're lock range is 80km but drone ship has also lock range the drone shooting range must be free from drone control range
Freeism Saurfang National Quality Breaker Industry Q Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.08.22 07:38:00 - [8] - Quote +1 drone control range should be the range between ship and drone, not drone's lock on range(= range between target and drone)
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2013.08.22 07:50:00 - [9] - Quote Freeism Saurfang wrote: drone control range should be the range between ship and drone, not drone's lock on range(= range between target and drone) It's neither of those. Currently drone control range is range between your ship and target.
Froggy Storm Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement 86	Posted - 2013.08.22 08:35:00 - [10] - Quote Correct me if I am wrong, the way I'm reading the op he wants to have the drones independent of the ships location relative to said drones? Don't you think that opens up an easily abused mechanic? Assuming that those drones still need to be controlled or assisted to targets, (ie they don't self target as that would be just silly) what is to keep the drone assist loading up with target range sebo's in an inteceptor, recon, etc and sniping with those drones from complete safety? To illustrate, let's say we drop 5 bouncers each from 4 domis on a gate. Those domes then warp to a tac on that gate grid (I'm assuming they at least need to be on grid). They then assist a Loki who is setup to target at let's say 100km and webs. Anything without a cloak on that gate smaller than a brick tank bs is going to be alpha'd off the field when it decloaks and has no hardeners on. Seems pretty clear to me that this camp would quickly become the absurd new meta for every gate camp. Given the current unrest over sentry meta I would be more inclined to speculate CCP is trying to find ways to make sentries more difficult to deploy effectively not even easier.

Oska Rus Free Ice Cream People 23	Posted - 2013.08.22 09:18:00 - [11] - Quote I think that drone control range for sentries is like locking range for ships. Because if you set drones to assist and have enough drone control range you dont need any locking range whatsoever. example: leader have locking range 100km and locks target at 95km slaves have locking range 50km and set sentries to assist leader leader engages target and all sentries start shooting as long as slaves are within drone control range of tatrget (which might be more than their locking range) By removing drone control range it would boost rr droneboats imensely.
Viceversa Rotten Kimchi Squadron Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2013.08.22 10:50:00 - [12] - Quote Oska Rus wrote: I think that drone control range for sentries is like locking range for ships. Because if you set drones to assist and have enough drone control range you dont need any locking range whatsoever. example: leader have locking range 100km and locks target at 95km slaves have locking range 50km and set sentries to assist leader leader engages target and all sentries start shooting as long as slaves are within drone control range of tatrget (which might be more than their locking range) By removing drone control range it would boost rr droneboats imensely. No, rr drones have limited rr range. When they run to repair you, they lock on you first, run and repair you.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1365	Posted - 2013.08.22 11:42:00 - [13] - Quote Because sentry domi's area clearly underpowered when it comes to applying dps at range.............................. .................... BYDI recruitment closed-ish
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1150	Posted - 2013.08.22 12:29:00 - [14] - Quote Garviel Tarrant wrote: Because sentry domi's area clearly underpowered when it comes to applying dps at range.............................. .................... Yeah that's exactly what they need, drop sentries and MJD 100km away so they can snipe with sentries for over 250km... ho my we're all dumb people and can't see the benefits of this. removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Freeism Saurfang National Quality Breaker Industry Q Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.08.22 12:34:00 - [15] - Quote Tobias Hareka wrote: Freeism Saurfang wrote: drone control range should be the range between ship and drone, not drone's lock on range(= range between target and drone) It's neither of those. Currently drone control range is range between your ship and target. For example: Your drone control range is 60km Your sentries have 120km optimal range Sentry <------60km-------> your ship <-------60km-------> target <---------------------range from sentry to target-----------------------> It's wrong. Sentry uses drone control range as its lock on range. If you are in a wormhole which have reducing lock on range effect, sentry cannot shoot target. Sentry <-0km-> Ship <--------------60km----------------> Target <-Sentry's Reduced Lock on range, 45km-> Sentry cannot shoot the target because sentry cannot lock on the target.
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 157	Posted - 2013.08.22 12:36:00 - [16] - Quote As long as we're putting up sentry drone "wants" I want to be able to use 10 sentry drones in my Dominix
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 173	Posted - 2013.08.22 12:44:00 - [17] - Quote While Sentry Domi's are currently looking at the blunt face of the nerf hammer I do believe this is something of an issue. The problem, of course, is that the effective range of sentries has steadily increased with the introduction of Drone Sharpshooting, Omnidirectional Tracking Links, rigs (IIRC) and then the Domi's new bonus while, since the introduction of sentry drones, the only increase to drone control range has been the DLAs (IIRC Electronic Warfare drones were introduced at the same time as sentries). The difficulty with the current drone control range mechanics is that they work against the longer ranged drones - Wardens require so much more equipment that you might as well use Gardes and save the slots (and CPU) while also gaining damage. The simple answer would be simply to increase the crone control range from the DLAs but the effect remains (why fit DLAs if you can go with more damage and not fit them). Switching Drone Control Range to be the maximum distance to drones (rather than to target and to drones) doesn't work either as it obsoletes DLAs entirely (unless you're the sort of masocist who wants to send heavies 100km to attack a target). The most sensible option would be to give a bonus to control range to the longer ranged drones but I don't have any idea whether that's even possible with current drone mechanics.
Tobias Hareka Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2013.08.22 13:01:00 - [18] - Quote Freeism Saurfang wrote: It's wrong. Sentry uses drone control range as its lock on range. If you are in a wormhole which have reducing lock on range effect, sentry cannot shoot target. Sentry <-0km-> Ship <--------------60km----------------> Target <-Sentry's Reduced Lock on range, 45km-> Sentry cannot shoot the target because sentry cannot lock on the target. There's only two ranges in effect between your drones and target: - Drone optimal/falloff range - Drone activation proximity (250km) http://eve-search.com/thread/1505355-0/page/all#16
Vrenth EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 27	Posted - 2013.08.22 23:17:00 - [19] - Quote Sentry boats are already powerful and they don't need any more buffs. This is coming from someone who flies them often. There are plenty of ways in increase drone control range far beyond what low DPS sniper boats can attain, and we track on a dime and hit harder than 1400mm arty at that range. In it's current system, a tradeoff is needed to allow sniping with sentries from long ranges, and high slots/rigs are a hell of alot better than making it hurt your tank/drone dps.
ElQuirko Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT 1838	Posted - 2013.08.23 15:16:00 - [20] - Quote Vrenth wrote: Sentry boats are already powerful and they don't need any more buffs. This is coming from someone who flies them often. There are plenty of ways in increase drone control range far beyond what low DPS sniper boats can attain, and we track on a dime and hit harder than 1400mm arty at that range. In it's current system, a tradeoff is needed to allow sniping with sentries from long ranges, and high slots/rigs are a hell of alot better than making it hurt your tank/drone dps. This isn't a buff, and it's not aimed completely at sentries. It's pointing out a flaw in the already-borked drone system we put up with daily. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved.

Kubla-Kahn Vortex Technologies 13	Posted - 2013.08.23 17:04:00 - [21] - Quote ElQuirko wrote: Vrenth wrote: Sentry boats are already powerful and they don't need any more buffs. This is coming from someone who flies them often. There are plenty of ways in increase drone control range far beyond what low DPS sniper boats can attain, and we track on a dime and hit harder than 1400mm arty at that range. In it's current system, a tradeoff is needed to allow sniping with sentries from long ranges, and high slots/rigs are a hell of alot better than making it hurt your tank/drone dps. This isn't a buff, and it's not aimed completely at sentries. It's pointing out a flaw in the already-borked drone system we put up with daily. But one that doe some seriously great damage!
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 158	Posted - 2013.08.23 19:11:00 - [22] - Quote Vrenth wrote: Sentry boats are already powerful and they don't need any more buffs. This is coming from someone who flies them often. There are plenty of ways in increase drone control range far beyond what low DPS sniper boats can attain, and we track on a dime and hit harder than 1400mm arty at that range. In it's current system, a tradeoff is needed to allow sniping with sentries from long ranges, and high slots/rigs are a hell of alot better than making it hurt your tank/drone dps. As a Domi pilot I would have to agree. I think this is a classic case of people always wanting their favorite ships to be better. Of course because who wants worse?? Where the problem comes in is that Eve is a PVP game so one ship can't be too OP. If you made it where you could launch 10 drones some people would ask to be able to launch all drones. It's about making things level where one ship isn't "best". BTW I'm going to be sad when the nerf bat hits the Domi...
nahjustwarpin Ministry of War Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2013.08.23 20:54:00 - [23] - Quote Viceversa wrote: Hi, I'd like to discuss about sentry drone mechanism. In case of normal combat drones, like warriors or ogres, we can understand this control range limits the area that we can deliver DPS and effectively attack the targets. However in case of sentry drones, actually they do not move, their dps cannot be delivered more than the "drone control range, and it seems to have no problem at that moment. so it's ok for heavies and smaller to be restricted by drone control range but sentries limit should be removed? not sure why Viceversa wrote: [quote=Oska Rus] No, rr drones have limited rr range. When they run to repair you, they lock on you first, run and repair you. "rr droneboats" means dominixes sitting at 100k or more km from target and sniping it, while repairing each other. if you start using rr drones in fight in dominix, you may aswell start a doctrine withmaelstroms with remote repairers all waiting to be finally destroyed, because they don't apply damage
Chronos Astre The Enclave of the Nexus 11	Posted - 2013.08.24 01:29:00 - [24] - Quote Two things: 1) you hit the nail on the head- it's not actually an issue, as it is well understood that the drone control distance effectively limits the area in which drones can deal their DPS. Ogres, hobs, salvage drones, ewar drones, we all know drone control range limits the area the drones affect (whether through damage, repair amounts, or other effects). Thus making it different with sentries is actually less consistent, and really, there is no reason a change needs to be done. 2) Sentries are different. When you have them set to aggressive, and someone shoots at you from 70km, they shoot back. They destroy the target in question. It's ridiculous that you can't tell them to do what they are already doing without your input. If they are comfortable with the situation as it stands, they shouldn't allow "workarounds" like assisting fleet members, being shot at, or what have you. Personally, I'd like to see "drone control range" as being the distance drones can be from you before you can't control them, and they drift until you come back for them, just like abandoning them by warping off the grid. In some ways more harsh, but also more "realistic" than the range from which you can "paint" a target for your drones, which is what drone control range seems to be.
March rabbit epTa Team Inc. 737	Posted - 2013.08.24 11:52:00 - [25] - Quote Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Garviel Tarrant wrote: Because sentry domi's area clearly underpowered when it comes to applying dps at range.............................. .................... Yeah that's exactly what they need, drop sentries and MJD 100km away so they can snipe with sentries for over 250km... ho my we're all dumb people and can't see the benefits of this. would be good. but you need: 1. locking range 250km (how many sensor boosters?) 2. control range to drones 100km (2x modules?) 3. Optimal+falloff of drones 150km


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