I appreciate the well constructed post. I can't give you an equally thorough response but I can say a few things on the subject.

First - torps simply perform better than you make it seem using your example. A mega has a tracking bonus for one, so its a weird thing to use for comparison, and theres a lot of other factors which aren't really accounted for. I picked out an example of my own to sort of demonstrate what I mean. This represents a 3bcu cruise raven, a 3bcu torp raven, and a 2mfs hyperion all shooting the same shield extended cruiser that is webbed: http://imgur.com/sP8JJZ6

As you can see, you get better max potential damage from the turrets, but the torps give you a lot more range flexibility. Both weapons are probably better than cruise until you get outside of effective range for them and then cruise takes over. This seems fairly healthy and I'm sure you can give examples where it isn't true, but there's an awful lot where it is true.

Second - and maybe more interesting to you - there's some work being done which will impact this situation. Some of it I can't talk about now but the most important piece is that we're looking seriously at more mod interactions with missiles. A missile equivalent to tracking enhancers, for instance, would allow you the flexibility to gain more damage application and/or range. If we are able to get something like this in before too long, we would likely be re-evaluating the state of all missile systems in relation to the change and some tweaks may happen as a result.

Thanks for the post o/

It seems like missiles have the advantage on application already, due to totally ignoring transversal. Giving them the ability to enhance their application even further seems somewhat ludicrous.

Actually the Torp raven is unable to apply full dps using a web to the following ship fits, even while theyre using a mwd, as soon as theyre scrammed, a common situation in pvp you'll have to agree.

Buffer tanked Armageddon, buffer tanked abaddon, buffer tanked apocalypse, buffer tanked raven, buffer tanked typhoon, AAR hyperion, buffer megathron, buffer dominix, buffer tempest and dual asb maelstrom. These are common fits that commonly use MWDs and often ABs. The application situation often gets worse when you start to consider rep fits, high resist fits, spider tanking fits that use ABs, etc.

I appreciate the well constructed post. I can't give you an equally thorough response but I can say a few things on the subject.

First - torps simply perform better than you make it seem using your example. A mega has a tracking bonus for one, so its a weird thing to use for comparison, and theres a lot of other factors which aren't really accounted for. I picked out an example of my own to sort of demonstrate what I mean. This represents a 3bcu cruise raven, a 3bcu torp raven, and a 2mfs hyperion all shooting the same shield extended cruiser that is webbed: http://imgur.com/sP8JJZ6

As you can see, you get better max potential damage from the turrets, but the torps give you a lot more range flexibility. Both weapons are probably better than cruise until you get outside of effective range for them and then cruise takes over. This seems fairly healthy and I'm sure you can give examples where it isn't true, but there's an awful lot where it is true.

Second - and maybe more interesting to you - there's some work being done which will impact this situation. Some of it I can't talk about now but the most important piece is that we're looking seriously at more mod interactions with missiles. A missile equivalent to tracking enhancers, for instance, would allow you the flexibility to gain more damage application and/or range. If we are able to get something like this in before too long, we would likely be re-evaluating the state of all missile systems in relation to the change and some tweaks may happen as a result.

Thanks for the post o/

numbers and things!

Second - and maybe more interesting to you - there's some work being done which will impact this situation. Some of it I can't talk about now but the most important piece is that we're looking seriously at more mod interactions with missiles. A missile equivalent to tracking enhancers, for instance, would allow you the flexibility to gain more damage application and/or range. If we are able to get something like this in before too long, we would likely be re-evaluating the state of all missile systems in relation to the change and some tweaks may happen as a result.

Thanks for the post o/

As long as we get some sort of Tracking Disruptor equivalent for missiles (or TD scripts that impact missiles), this sounds like a fantastic idea.

I appreciate the well constructed post. I can't give you an equally thorough response but I can say a few things on the subject.

First - torps simply perform better than you make it seem using your example. A mega has a tracking bonus for one, so its a weird thing to use for comparison, and theres a lot of other factors which aren't really accounted for. I picked out an example of my own to sort of demonstrate what I mean. This represents a 3bcu cruise raven, a 3bcu torp raven, and a 2mfs hyperion all shooting the same shield extended cruiser that is webbed: http://imgur.com/sP8JJZ6

As you can see, you get better max potential damage from the turrets, but the torps give you a lot more range flexibility. Both weapons are probably better than cruise until you get outside of effective range for them and then cruise takes over. This seems fairly healthy and I'm sure you can give examples where it isn't true, but there's an awful lot where it is true.

Second - and maybe more interesting to you - there's some work being done which will impact this situation. Some of it I can't talk about now but the most important piece is that we're looking seriously at more mod interactions with missiles. A missile equivalent to tracking enhancers, for instance, would allow you the flexibility to gain more damage application and/or range. If we are able to get something like this in before too long, we would likely be re-evaluating the state of all missile systems in relation to the change and some tweaks may happen as a result.

Thanks for the post o/

What about TD's? will you add missiles to them or make a separate mod / fix defender missiles and move to a mid slot?
Also please tell me you will nerf HAM and small missiles range as there range is OP and conflicts with larger class weapons?

Why not keep Defenders as a high slot item, give them a small smartbomb style 'self-destruct' to take out nearby missiles? Let the AoE damage effect any ship within its range, too. Might even be effective vs Bombs.

Give them a very fast flight time, burst fire (ie they fire in groups, rapidly) and then a reload time. Should work as a short duration defense against immediate threats - which reduces the chance of being overhwelmed by a mass of missiles at once, but a flurry will still damage you.

Alternatively, a "TD" like item that uses EMP pulses to disrupt the missiles tracking systems and reduces their accuracy/damage potiential.

A missile equivalent to tracking enhancers, for instance, would allow you the flexibility to gain more damage application and/or range.

I appreciate the well constructed post. I can't give you an equally thorough response but I can say a few things on the subject.

First - torps simply perform better than you make it seem using your example. A mega has a tracking bonus for one, so its a weird thing to use for comparison, and theres a lot of other factors which aren't really accounted for. I picked out an example of my own to sort of demonstrate what I mean. This represents a 3bcu cruise raven, a 3bcu torp raven, and a 2mfs hyperion all shooting the same shield extended cruiser that is webbed: http://imgur.com/sP8JJZ6

As you can see, you get better max potential damage from the turrets, but the torps give you a lot more range flexibility. Both weapons are probably better than cruise until you get outside of effective range for them and then cruise takes over. This seems fairly healthy and I'm sure you can give examples where it isn't true, but there's an awful lot where it is true.

Second - and maybe more interesting to you - there's some work being done which will impact this situation. Some of it I can't talk about now but the most important piece is that we're looking seriously at more mod interactions with missiles. A missile equivalent to tracking enhancers, for instance, would allow you the flexibility to gain more damage application and/or range. If we are able to get something like this in before too long, we would likely be re-evaluating the state of all missile systems in relation to the change and some tweaks may happen as a result.

Thanks for the post o/

Lets also fix the problem where torps don't fly out to their stated range because they launch at a angle and have to accelerate. So the flight time needs a small adjustment to fix this.

I would say that, instead of using the Missile Motor to launch the missile, there should be a small launching mechanism inside the launcher that actually launches them... this way, you are not burning up fuel getting it out of the tube.

It works in reality, why not in a video game?

CCP Rise,

You seem to be ignoring the very large drawbacks of having missiles do delayed damage and their vulnerability to firewalling in larger fleets. In order for that torpedo to hit out to those 25ish km ranges, it needs to wait 9 seconds for it to hit.

The way you paint the situation doesn't sound so bad but when you take these extra problems into consideration I think missiles need some work. It's a similar problem with drones, they look good on paper, but the real damage application is much more complicated while turrets are pretty straight forward.

I still want to know why you are comparing that Raven to such a failfit Megathron.

It seems like missiles have the advantage on application already, due to totally ignoring transversal. Giving them the ability to enhance their application even further seems somewhat ludicrous.

OMG missiles getting mods? Like actual things to make them NOT crap? Did I miss the eve apocalypse or something? Is it my birthday soon?

...Blah stuff....

As you can see, you get better max potential damage from the turrets, but the torps give you a lot more range flexibility.