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Why Wasps should be deemed an exploit

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Valerius	Posted - 2006.01.04 05:51:00 - [1] Well, we were having a little trip into Delve earlier tonight and stumbled upon a lone megathron... no worries there we thought since we had 1 AF and 2 ICs he shouldnt be all that much trouble.... right.... said mega had 4 wasps onboard, which also shouldnt be a problem. We attacked him and the wasps immediately came charging at the first IC whom readily screamed run for ya trousers and so we did. Again, no worries, we couldnt take him on so we left the scene only to find ourselves followed by the mega and a sacriledge. One IC was reporting problems with its viewscreen, something about the sensors being out of phase with the timeframe indicator so i threw myself in to try and give them more time to run. My AF valiantly charged onto the Sacri and opened fire as did the HAC once it had me locked, it did not hit though and soon found itself without shield at which point i noticed the dreaded wasps flying towards me. I quickly plotted an escape course to get out once i saw my shield drop 50% with the first "hits" from the drones and luckily managed to enter warp once my armor also hit 50%... following now is a snippit of the logs... Log Begin: (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 barely misses you. (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 misses you completely. After those "hits" my shield was at 50% (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> barely scratches you, causing 42.8 damage. (combat) Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> misses you completely. (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 hits you, doing 17.4 damage. (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 barely misses you. (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 misses you completely. (combat) Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> misses you completely. (notify) Warping to FM-JK5 VIII Armor at 50% This all with 400 shield and 1100 armor with 65% thermal resistence.... So, reason why wasps should be deemed exploits? They do dmg even though they dont hit ___________________________ Bringing Lag to a place near you since 2004
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:00:00 - [2] I ALWAYS said drones were evil, but did they listen? Nooooo... ----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
Earthan	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:02:00 - [3] Wasps are bugged atm .Check their info.They got a insane tracking. ***************************** Out here on the perimeter there are no stars Out here we is stoned-immaculate.
Vegeta	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:06:00 - [4] You obviously don't know that not all combat actions show up in the log. The client (afaik) can only display so many messages. Try firing lots of guns all at once, and notice how it only shows you maybe half the messages.
Valerius	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:06:00 - [5] Log of the last seconds for the disbeleivers: [ 2006.01.04 04:30:22 ] (combat) Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> barely misses you. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:22 ] (combat) Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> barely misses you. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:22 ] (combat) Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> barely misses you. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 barely misses you. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 hits you, doing 15.8 damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> barely misses you. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:25 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> barely misses you. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:26 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> barely scratches you, causing 42.8 damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:26 ] (combat) Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:26 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 hits you, doing 17.4 damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:26 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:26 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 barely misses you. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:26 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:26 ] (combat) Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:27 ] (notify) Warping to FM-JK5 VIII [ 2006.01.04 04:30:28 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:28 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 lightly hits you, doing 13.7 damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:28 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 hits you, doing 18.4 damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:28 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 hits you, doing 18.3 damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:29 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> barely scratches you, causing 43.2 damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:29 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> barely scratches you, causing 43.8 damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:29 ] (combat) Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:30 ] (combat) Dr Sorante [SCLUB]<XS> lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:30 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 heavily hits you, inflicting 21.9 damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:30 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:30 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 barely misses you. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:30 ] (combat) Wasp I belonging to Simon 955 barely misses you. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:31 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:31 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:31 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> lands a hit on you which glances off, causing no real damage. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:31 ] (combat) Simon 955 [RKK]<BOB> misses you completely. [ 2006.01.04 04:30:31 ] (notify) You cannot do that while warping. ___________________________ Bringing Lag to a place near you since 2004
Valerius	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:08:00 - [6] Originally by: Earthan Wasps are bugged atm .Check their info.They got a insane tracking. Yes, and knowingly using bugged items is an exploit... atleast from what i know of. If the wasps are classified as bugged then the use of them should be deemed an exploit (kinda like the ballistic controls with insane dmg) ___________________________ Bringing Lag to a place near you since 2004
Valerius	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Vegeta You obviously don't know that not all combat actions show up in the log. The client (afaik) can only display so many messages. Try firing lots of guns all at once, and notice how it only shows you maybe half the messages. notice the timestamps in the full log? it displays the fire from all four drones as well as the sacriledge and mega ___________________________ Bringing Lag to a place near you since 2004
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:15:00 - [8] Originally by: Valerius [ 2006.01.04 04:30:31 ] (notify) You cannot do that while warping. That notification always sounded a little...dirty...to me. I guess my mind's just in the gutter ----------------------------------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
skilz	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:24:00 - [9] I totally and 100% agree with you. Fix it. --
Kuolematon	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:28:00 - [10] New droneskills? Azuriel Talloth: If it ain't broke, change it so it mildly annoys the playerbase
StarLite	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:39:00 - [11] So what is the problem, you got owned by 4 heavy drones? The only 'Problem' with wasps is that they apparently have a too high tracking, but they don't even HIT you half of the time. Af's are quite slow and they have a big sig radius for a frig, they SHOULD hit you. I don;t see the problem here, your af got owned by a mega and a HAC, like you should have been... ___________________________________________________
Valerius	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:43:00 - [12] Originally by: StarLite So what is the problem, you got owned by 4 heavy drones? The only 'Problem' with wasps is that they apparently have a too high tracking, but they don't even HIT you half of the time. Af's are quite slow and they have a big sig radius for a frig, they SHOULD hit you. I don;t see the problem here, your af got owned by a mega and a HAC, like you should have been... you failed to see the point, i wasnt expecting to wtfbbqpwn those two... they arent npcs... the problem is that they shot me down to 50% armor without even hitting me (that much) the lash wasnt at the two pilots, they did their job as any other would have, the lash goes out against the use of wasps in general since they are bugged... ___________________________ Bringing Lag to a place near you since 2004
Zezman	Posted - 2006.01.04 06:48:00 - [13] Cool, time to break out all of my wasps. Thanks for the tip.
Ed Gein	Posted - 2006.01.04 07:32:00 - [14] wasps are bugged since rmr... its been talked about alread ------------------------------- ParMizaN > i diead to belt trats on a 0.2 Ed Gein > ROFL Ed Gein > what ship? ParMizaN > cruadaer ParMizaN > i padssed out#
MellaRinn	Posted - 2006.01.04 07:42:00 - [15] Originally by: Vegeta You obviously don't know that not all combat actions show up in the log. The client (afaik) can only display so many messages. Try firing lots of guns all at once, and notice how it only shows you maybe half the messages. Totally agreed - sometimes if you fire 7 guns at once, only 1 will enter the log as well...
Tyrrax Thorrk	Posted - 2006.01.04 08:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Vegeta You obviously don't know that not all combat actions show up in the log. The client (afaik) can only display so many messages. Try firing lots of guns all at once, and notice how it only shows you maybe half the messages. Pretty sure log does show everything now, got changed in RMR patch I think.
dodge2005	Posted - 2006.01.04 08:07:00 - [17] being as drones are Very! bugged in general, wasps gives us drone users a bit of a break.
sonofollo	Posted - 2006.01.04 08:30:00 - [18] here is the go - wasps are bugged CCP know about it havent pulled em out - so file a peititon otherwise everone should start using wasps for PVP until its fixed which will be feb so wasps are now the uber drones to use.. CCP 4tw Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw.
Grimpak	Posted - 2006.01.04 08:41:00 - [19] Originally by: sonofollo here is the go - wasps are bugged CCP know about it havent pulled em out - so file a peititon otherwise everone should start using wasps for PVP until its fixed which will be feb so wasps are now the uber drones to use.. CCP 4tw last time a ship used wasps in my ishkur they did as much damage as the jugg torps they were shooting at me (a scorp btw). kinda funny to see torps and wasps hitting for 6 damage. ..and yes.. this is after RMR I got a trauma out of that scorp tho. Damn ship managed to get away before my mates could arrive on time BLAH! ------------------- Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you
Steven Dynahir	Posted - 2006.01.04 08:52:00 - [20] Well, let's see.. 4 Wasps, seems that he's a level 4 pilot. Let's assume following. Drones = lvl4 (4 wasp) Drone Interfacing = lvl4 Heavy drones = lvl4 Damage for one volley is = 422HP1.8 (drone interfacing)1.2(heavy drones) = 190HP or 80HP/sec.. And lets assume that those are bugged log files, so you got hit by 4 volleys instead of 4 drones. 1904 = 760HP so that would be 760HP of KINETIC damage.. --- Home, sweet home.
Avon	Posted - 2006.01.04 09:05:00 - [21] If the OP wanted an answer, he would have petitioned it or submitted a question to a GM. Posting here only makes him look like he is crying in his milk because he got beat in a fight. Aw. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Lord Frost	Posted - 2006.01.04 09:14:00 - [22] Originally by: Avon If the OP wanted an answer, he would have petitioned it or submitted a question to a GM. Posting here only makes him look like he is crying in his milk because he got beat in a fight. Aw. Another lame, informative quote from Avon... woo. Don't hurt me with that ego... its huge!
sonofollo	Posted - 2006.01.04 09:14:00 - [23] well until its fixed everyone use wasp I and IIs. Yes iveb een hearing this and CCP as usual isnt interested so i guess its a new PVP uber tactic (its wel known dozens of bug reports and no immediate hot fix) or the temp removal of Wasps Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw.
Avon	Posted - 2006.01.04 09:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Lord Frost Originally by: Avon If the OP wanted an answer, he would have petitioned it or submitted a question to a GM. Posting here only makes him look like he is crying in his milk because he got beat in a fight. Aw. Another lame, informative quote from Avon... woo. Don't hurt me with that ego... its huge! Oh please Read his post. He has obviously heard somewhere that Wasps are bugged, and then comes to the conclusion they are the problem in this case. He claims that he took heavy damage, but it wasn't logged, and then come to the conclusion that the only possible explaination is that Wasps do 'stealth damage'. He doesn't even look for discussion of the possible causes, he immediately states that Wasps should be deemed an exploit based on his evidence. If he came here to discuss what may of happened then I could understand him posting, but that is not the case. It is a clear rant based on an unclear event. ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Gunstar Zero	Posted - 2006.01.04 09:29:00 - [25] Agree Valerius I dont think our pilots are deliberately fitting them, but if they are there will be arse-kickings. Give me a shout in-game tonight if you have time.
Valerius	Posted - 2006.01.04 09:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Lord Frost Originally by: Avon If the OP wanted an answer, he would have petitioned it or submitted a question to a GM. Posting here only makes him look like he is crying in his milk because he got beat in a fight. Aw. Another lame, informative quote from Avon... woo. Don't hurt me with that ego... its huge! Oh please Read his post. He has obviously heard somewhere that Wasps are bugged, and then comes to the conclusion they are the problem in this case. He claims that he took heavy damage, but it wasn't logged, and then come to the conclusion that the only possible explaination is that Wasps do 'stealth damage'. He doesn't even look for discussion of the possible causes, he immediately states that Wasps should be deemed an exploit based on his evidence. If he came here to discuss what may of happened then I could understand him posting, but that is not the case. It is a clear rant based on an unclear event. Avon, i must say though this sounds lame from me.... your post is lame. I may not have made it clear enough from my previous postings BUT... the Sacriledge was NOT hitting me, the Mega was NOT hitting me, only thing left is.... gosh.... the 4 wasps. Ok, the "gosh" thing was too much, but still This post was not based on ranting, but simply trying to engage the community and try to bring it from using bugged "weapons", simple as that... If enough ppl complain, on the forums or via bug reports CCP will take notice and do something about this. Also, thx for your kind reply Gunstar, i will take note of that ___________________________ Bringing Lag to a place near you since 2004
Tamu Vos	Posted - 2006.01.04 09:50:00 - [27] Edited by: Tamu Vos on 04/01/2006 09:51:22 Originally by: Steven Dynahir Well, let's see.. 4 Wasps, seems that he's a level 4 pilot. Let's assume following. Drones = lvl4 (4 wasp) Drone Interfacing = lvl4 Heavy drones = lvl4 Don't you need drones lvl5 before you can train drone interfacing? so maybe he only had 4 wasps on him, or maybe only 4 would fit into the megathron... EDIT: /me is picking _______________________________________________ I am a signature. Do not abuse me.
Romulus Maximus	Posted - 2006.01.04 09:52:00 - [28] Edited by: Romulus Maximus on 04/01/2006 09:53:20 I cant find the fecking log. But we engaged a Domi up north. Using wasps, i checked my log after, he was wrecking me for 115.6, quite often too. Even after i pulled his drones away, they were hitting me for quite some range. More than i expected. Most of the ships ive come across are using wasps, wheter thye know tracking is fubar or not. There being used. If only u knew how many times our FCs said "get over, there just drones,we still killed them" after someone has moaned about them. Until its enforced or fixed by CCP, ppl will use them. Adapt Ill add, i had 1500 armour, and repping, the wasps were happily taking me down till i dragged them away. Current RKK Ranking: (AMM10) Commodore
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2006.01.04 10:11:00 - [29] off to the market for drones :P Dark Skyes Website Under Construct
Avon	Posted - 2006.01.04 10:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Valerius I may not have made it clear enough from my previous postings BUT... the Sacriledge was NOT hitting me, the Mega was NOT hitting me, only thing left is.... gosh.... the 4 wasps. Which weren't hitting you either? Or they were but it wasn't logged? Or the hits which caused no damage really caused loads of damage? If you are saying the logs are wrong, how is it you know what happened with such certainty? Maybe there is another explaination? ______________________________________________ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur

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