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One very true thing about macro miners you cannot avoid...

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BlackHole Bob	Posted - 2006.01.04 12:25:00 - [1] Edited by: BlackHole Bob on 04/01/2006 12:26:56 There are NONE in low sec and 0.0 since i never rarely visit high sec except to market stuff and buy.... macro miners I never see or hear or worry about.... on top of that I dont mine...at all..I just buy ships and can afford to do so...so to be honest macro mining affects me ZERO but if feel for the miners and the price of minerals...sad days im sure... maybe just maybe its time to mine somewhere else besides high sec... maybe gather friends and pull mining ops in low sec and do it with 8-10 players...so when pirates arrive your jacking them up...straight out pirates dont mess with mining parties supported by a small fleet of battleships and wingmen just escorting them around... get wise..get smart and knuckle up...move out of that crowded lagged out JITA or what ever over mined system your in and get into the game... the game expands ten fold when you run with friends and move out of high sec... but then thats just me...
Todemir	Posted - 2006.01.04 12:27:00 - [2] No macroers in low sec? Not quite true. I've killed a few.
turnschuh	Posted - 2006.01.04 12:28:00 - [3] yeah Im so sick of macro miner discussions, its a beaten horse. Its OFN and I just hate all the topics with their "brilant" ideas how to stop macrominers or "final solutions" on macros. I do not care about macro miners :(
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.01.04 13:03:00 - [4] Well have killed a few in low sec as well.. so ... low sec is not secure from macro/isk farmers. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Teles666	Posted - 2006.01.04 13:36:00 - [5] While I agree with the sentiment there are two caveats to the plan: Not everyone has a corp organised enough to mine - some corps just don't mine - and it's annoying when you can't because x y or z just can't be bothered. I mine in 0.5 for 5m isk/hour (at quite easily found prices), thats just me, and my hauling alt (2nd account) so I make 5m/hour. doing things your way limits opportunity to mine (when the corp can get together, probably weekends only), limits the length of mining (while everyone can stay on) and slashes your profitability (you need to share the proceeds with your escorts). If I'm saving for something I can pull 100m in a week, even with richer low sec ores I'd struggle to do that (although admittedly it'd be a much shorter time in the belt). Oh, and I've been jumped by 3 BS and 2 HAC in a 0.1 - all flashing red, don't tell me they won't bust your little mining op as and when they feel like it. Luckily most pirate gangs aren't so strong or skilled but you have to accept sometimes you will get a gank.
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.01.04 13:47:00 - [6] killed 2 groups in lowsec myself.
Aaronus	Posted - 2006.01.04 13:50:00 - [7] Originally by: BlackHole Bob Edited by: BlackHole Bob on 04/01/2006 12:26:56 There are NONE in low sec and 0.0 since i never rarely visit high sec except to market stuff and buy.... macro miners I never see or hear or worry about.... on top of that I dont mine...at all..I just buy ships and can afford to do so...so to be honest macro mining affects me ZERO but if feel for the miners and the price of minerals...sad days im sure... maybe just maybe its time to mine somewhere else besides high sec... maybe gather friends and pull mining ops in low sec and do it with 8-10 players...so when pirates arrive your jacking them up...straight out pirates dont mess with mining parties supported by a small fleet of battleships and wingmen just escorting them around... get wise..get smart and knuckle up...move out of that crowded lagged out JITA or what ever over mined system your in and get into the game... the game expands ten fold when you run with friends and move out of high sec... but then thats just me... You honestly didn't think before you posted that? You buy ships, ships are made with minerals. Macroers don't build ships, they mine and dump the ore on the market at cheap prices. Miners have to lower their prices constantly to compete. Which mean prices as a whole are slowly going down. So whether good or bad it does affect you. As far as telling people where they need to go, low end minerals make the majority of building requirements. It is senseless to go somewhere where you have to constantly look over your shoulder when you can sit quietly in Empire and mine. Risk wise it just aint worth it. And then take into account that the dedicated builders have mineral contracts with the same people flying around in low sec and 0.0. So you can have your opinion of things and that is absolutely fine, everyone does. But if you honeslty think that macrominers aren't hurting this game then you are ignorant of the situation.
Kuolematon	Posted - 2006.01.04 13:55:00 - [8] No macroers in 0.0? O RLY? Uuh, cough curse region cough Azuriel Talloth: If it ain't broke, change it so it mildly annoys the playerbase
Lifewire	Posted - 2006.01.04 14:00:00 - [9] I saw a macrominer in 0.0 running his fleet while defendig it with his Apoc. I am also sure that alliance run macros in big style once they have a system totally under their control. 1 year ago a NORAD corp called Merchant Marines even sold their macro to their members in their corp forum. 400 members tolerated this. So, don¦t say it¦s a high sec problem only. With the new capital ships it will happen more often that alliances cheat with their macros. Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/ Movies:http://www.tundragon.com/pub/eveclips Killboard:http://www.tundragon.com/
Wanoah	Posted - 2006.01.04 14:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Teles666 Oh, and I've been jumped by 3 BS and 2 HAC in a 0.1 - all flashing red, don't tell me they won't bust your little mining op as and when they feel like it. Luckily most pirate gangs aren't so strong or skilled but you have to accept sometimes you will get a gank. There is a risk, but as long as the rewards are high enough, it should outweigh those risks in the long-term. Occasional losses should be acceptable. I do think that low-sec mining should be more worthwhile compared to high sec though. I'd be tempted to suggest that any roid > scordite should only spawn in 0.4 and below to give the guys that put their ships on the line a real incentive. Barriers - An Eve Novel
Kaliesin	Posted - 2006.01.04 17:55:00 - [11] If there are no Macro'ers/ebayers in 0.0, where does all the Zyd and Mega for sale come from?
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.01.04 18:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Kaliesin If there are no Macro'ers/ebayers in 0.0, where does all the Zyd and Mega for sale come from? Jaspet.
Aaronus	Posted - 2006.01.04 18:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Originally by: Kaliesin If there are no Macro'ers/ebayers in 0.0, where does all the Zyd and Mega for sale come from? Jaspet. Jaspet, lol
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.01.04 18:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Aaronus Jaspet, lol Well, what's the Zyd content of two dozen belts in a 0.3? I have no idea, never bothered to find out.
BlackHole Bob	Posted - 2006.01.04 19:30:00 - [15] Edited by: BlackHole Bob on 04/01/2006 19:37:51 well i guess there in 0.0 and low sec if you say so... funny part is I move in and around low sec and 0.0 ALL the time and NEVER have encountered one yet... guess im flying in the wrong part of eve... or flying for the right reasons... reason being, im not looking for them maybe and making it a pet project to CLEAN UP EVE OF THE EVIL EBAYERS and macroers ill leave that to CCP... but then when propganda and speculation run amok you will then say CCP does not do anything....yet not to long ago several hundred accounts got whacked... you guys think CCP cannot see several accounts (like 12-24 logged from the same IP address around the clock)...as i doubt chinese farmers are paying for multiple IPS...and then simply checking these accounts? The point of the post is simple... look for it and you will find it...even if its a trace element...salt water has gold in it...doent mean we are all going to strike it rich... simply put....if it is your goal to rid the universe of macroers and ebayers you will always have work ahead...and forever and ever...and you will be the king of eve playing style honor and mad beyond oblivion.... because honestly as a single player you cannot do anything excpet complain and complain and complain until your so upset you quit eve and blame macroers and ebayers for your unhappiness with the game.... i choose to not even be involved except to express my sentiments, that it has not at all affected me in anyway that truly upsets me or bothers me even in the slightest bit. and yeah i played lineage II and got banned by those Korean Gamemaster for excessively killing hundreds of bots every day for weeks and they had to ban me to stop me....my character was just that high level and would run over bots like candy in a kids mouth... the devs banned me...the GOOD GUY...the guy defending against ebayers and macroers...and killing them in groves...for one reason...i was to anti-social to what they called vaulable accounts and revenue. i thought long before i posted this...as macroers and ebayers are IN EVER GAME NOW THATS MMO STYLE. As long as a market exsist the ebayers and macrroers will thrive no matter what..when lazy players stop buying ISK then and only then will this issue cease and stop and not exsist... in eve i choose not to perticipate in such a negative but noble thing that is all... and for that I am happy and content and really never see them...cause im not looking for them....
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.01.04 19:34:00 - [16] Originally by: BlackHole Bob and for that I am happy and content and really never see them...cause im not looking for them.... They can see you. They can see all of us. "The Culture's ultimate Outside Context Problem was popularly supposed to be likely to take the shape of a galaxy-consuming Hegemonising Swarm..."
Embattle	Posted - 2006.01.04 19:38:00 - [17] How could anyone avoid MMs, people won't stop going on about them. ----------- STFU Macromoaners
Kylania	Posted - 2006.01.04 19:39:00 - [18] You might not see them, but you suffer from them and the idiots that buy from them, by the inflation and lowering of prices for minerals and things made by them. While you don't see their ships, they do directly influence your gaming experience, heck you even started a thread about it because of them. :) -- Lil Miner
BlackHole Bob	Posted - 2006.01.04 19:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Originally by: BlackHole Bob and for that I am happy and content and really never see them...cause im not looking for them.... They can see you. They can see all of us. LOL...that made me laugh...seriously thanx..LOL
Aaronus	Posted - 2006.01.04 19:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Originally by: Aaronus Jaspet, lol Well, what's the Zyd content of two dozen belts in a 0.3? I have no idea, never bothered to find out. I have no idea what the content of two dozen belts in .3 is, but the last time I checked Jaspet gets you Nocxium, not megacyte nor Zydrine.
Ev1l 1	Posted - 2006.01.04 19:46:00 - [21] Originally by: BlackHole Bob Edited by: BlackHole Bob on 04/01/2006 12:26:56 There are NONE in low sec and 0.0 since i never rarely visit high sec except to market stuff and buy.... macro miners I never see or hear or worry about.... on top of that I dont mine...at all..I just buy ships and can afford to do so...so to be honest macro mining affects me ZERO but if feel for the miners and the price of minerals...sad days im sure... maybe just maybe its time to mine somewhere else besides high sec... maybe gather friends and pull mining ops in low sec and do it with 8-10 players...so when pirates arrive your jacking them up...straight out pirates dont mess with mining parties supported by a small fleet of battleships and wingmen just escorting them around... get wise..get smart and knuckle up...move out of that crowded lagged out JITA or what ever over mined system your in and get into the game... the game expands ten fold when you run with friends and move out of high sec... but then thats just me... Not ture that player rats leave large ops alone. Those that know how to really PVP will go after them, cuz they know that barges are easy targets. I have ran ops in low sec with large numbers of grauds. player rats still go after them and kill barges before the combat wing can repone. Worst case I have seen was 4 barges killed in less then 1 min and the BS (phoon) warped out before the scorp we had can get him jammed (lag delayed his lock).
BlackHole Bob	Posted - 2006.01.04 19:49:00 - [22] Edited by: BlackHole Bob on 04/01/2006 19:50:17 Originally by: Kylania You might not see them, but you suffer from them and the idiots that buy from them, by the inflation and lowering of prices for minerals and things made by them. While you don't see their ships, they do directly influence your gaming experience, heck you even started a thread about it because of them. :) good observation but speculative... heres the trick...I dont mine, never have, and make more isk then miners...i rarely deal in ores and minerals except compounds...cause i run complexs i buy apocs for under 100 mill now a geddons, for cheaper then HAS, at 63 million im not in the manufacturing business or mining business AT ALL in eve... your gonna hate me but hey...all these low prices mean cheap ships i can buy... if i mined i might think different... but im not going to intervene on the behalf of miners just to give myself something to do..been there done that and got banned for it...in another game... i work for my isk...and never ebay/buy isk.....something about earning and flying a ship is alot more rewarding knowing you got it the real way...through hard work... this is akin to ...my dad is poor so i earned my first car and now take very good care of it...yet your bros whos dad is rich buys him a car and its wrecked in 3 months cause he did not care cause he can buy another quickly.... jealousy is a core issue here
Grimjakk	Posted - 2006.01.04 20:07:00 - [23] Originally by: BlackHole Bob this is akin to ...my dad is poor so i earned my first car and now take very good care of it...yet your bros whos dad is rich buys him a car and its wrecked in 3 months cause he did not care cause he can buy another quickly.... jealousy is a core issue here That's a VERY poor analogy. What they're talking about ultimately is a small group of players that is sucking up (literally) an inordinate amount of game content by AUTOMATING it. Now a better analogy would be if you went to run your complexes and found them constantly empty due to macro'd combat groups cleaning them out as soon as they respawned. No? Cheaters DO affect you because they drive other players out of the game.
Skaar Corhaic	Posted - 2006.01.04 20:13:00 - [24] Edited by: Skaar Corhaic on 04/01/2006 20:14:37 Originally by: BlackHole Bob Edited by: BlackHole Bob on 04/01/2006 19:50:17 Originally by: Kylania You might not see them, but you suffer from them and the idiots that buy from them, by the inflation and lowering of prices for minerals and things made by them. While you don't see their ships, they do directly influence your gaming experience, heck you even started a thread about it because of them. :) good observation but speculative... heres the trick...I dont mine, never have, and make more isk then miners...i rarely deal in ores and minerals except compounds...cause i run complexs i buy apocs for under 100 mill now a geddons, for cheaper then HAS, at 63 million im not in the manufacturing business or mining business AT ALL in eve... your gonna hate me but hey...all these low prices mean cheap ships i can buy... if i mined i might think different... but im not going to intervene on the behalf of miners just to give myself something to do..been there done that and got banned for it...in another game... i work for my isk...and never ebay/buy isk.....something about earning and flying a ship is alot more rewarding knowing you got it the real way...through hard work... this is akin to ...my dad is poor so i earned my first car and now take very good care of it...yet your bros whos dad is rich buys him a car and its wrecked in 3 months cause he did not care cause he can buy another quickly.... jealousy is a core issue here But you have to understand than not only are your ships cheaper because of MMs, but people who want to spend their EVE life by mining (maybe they need relaxation after hard work in RL) have big problems earn some money by it because prices are soo low. And EVE is the game that says - you choose what you want to be, fighter,trader,manufacturer or MINER. So MMs are bad for EVE. And that you are earning money by running comlexes has little to do with it.
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2006.01.04 20:27:00 - [25] Something I think we should just all clear up here. A lot of these people aren't macro miners, they are farmers. Macro Mining, uses a program to repeat mouse/keyboard actions. I do accept that a competent Python programmer could modify the client itself for an intelligent and foolproof macro. Farmers are people who work in low-GDP countries (more often than not places like Korea, China, and Eastern Europe), sitting at a computer, repeating said actions over and over again. At this point they do not breach the EULA. However, they do breach the EULA when they sell the spoils of farming on eBay, such as characters, items, ISK, or minerals. 23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC
Korth	Posted - 2006.01.04 20:41:00 - [26] You don't think the "Boss" farmer runs macros to control the "field hands"?
Aaronus	Posted - 2006.01.04 20:52:00 - [27] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Something I think we should just all clear up here. A lot of these people aren't macro miners, they are farmers. Macro Mining, uses a program to repeat mouse/keyboard actions. I do accept that a competent Python programmer could modify the client itself for an intelligent and foolproof macro. Farmers are people who work in low-GDP countries (more often than not places like Korea, China, and Eastern Europe), sitting at a computer, repeating said actions over and over again. At this point they do not breach the EULA. However, they do breach the EULA when they sell the spoils of farming on eBay, such as characters, items, ISK, or minerals. Well the fact of the matter is macroer, macro miner, farmer, ebay seller, they all are directed at people who intend to breach the EULA by selling the virtual money. But what's funny is when you think about there isn't a difference really between virtual currency and real money. Most are just numbers electronically now anyway. I haven't carried cash in forever, just use me trusty Debit Card for everything.
BlackHole Bob	Posted - 2006.01.05 01:11:00 - [28] shall i summise what seems to be a general consensus....??? first let me say thanx for everyone discussing this in a cival manner ok so we ALL (including me) agree that farming for isk via macroing or not to sell on ebay is not right and bad for any mmo all around. now we also know there is not a whole lot players can do besides become anti-social to the macro miner ebayer farmer and just doing everything possible to ruin there world....and efforts...and in the progress probably thier own game depending on who you are now we also some what believe game makers do not do enough to ban or block this issue and type of player, in fact it is my "personnal opinion" that NCSoft actually promotes it (but thats a whole nother issue ..see my post above) now enters eve... players fight back...devs ban many...farmers keep coming...players keep BUYING ISK.... in todays world the most valuable commodity is convienence and man, in mmo's people will pay not to GRIND....cause it suxor...the reason you grind is thats how mmos make thier money.... imagine this...a game that did not make you take months or years to earn money or skills or items...if you dont believe me look at WoW...max a character in a matter of a month or so I hear...(never played it though so correct me if i am wrong) you could compete with players whom played for years...within a few months not years...you had to still earn your stuff but not at some retarded long rate like real life to hold you to keep sending companies your 15 bux a month.... as long as players buy isk farmers will thrive...and there is nothing any player can do to change this...or any gaming company that runs this type of business model of "the longer the customer has to take to get to the next ISK/Level/Skill/Item the longer the customer will send us 15 bux a month" with that said i choose still to ignore and not fight a battle i cannot win nor actually impact...i am just the victum of a crime commited against the game makers...they must assume responsibility...until then if i DO see macroers i will kill them and take the sec hit...but once again i havent seen any...guess im just the rare case maybe..i dunno even if it means banning together worldwide to bring international action or laws...but game makers will have to change the models a bit before this is going away on a few ends...the players, myself and you and others, will have to make a choice...live with it or stop playing...it is that clear to me after lineage II...tis sad yes... i just dont see companies spending revenue to stop revenue and its sad...the players who just enjoy, love and really are here to game are the true and most harmed by this not the game makers or farmers...

Wrangler	Posted - 2006.01.05 01:14:00 - [29] Please post in this thread instead. [Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] - [Give me money!]


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