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Trade Routes for Americans?

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Mira Finoso	Posted - 2003.08.20 18:18:00 - [1] Is this a lost cause? Is there any way to effectively be a trader in the game, when you don't get to play until a few hours prior to downtime? Thoughts?? Anyone???
Marcus Grisbius	Posted - 2003.08.20 18:35:00 - [2] I guess it depends on what your definition of effective is. You can still make money during the rest of the day just not from the npc's. You can still buy low and sell higher and don't have to have full price when you sell. Not trying to be a pain, please don't get the wrong idea, but there are ways to make money. It may not be as easy as some people make it but it can be made. Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn
Nirvy	Posted - 2003.08.20 19:26:00 - [3] Nothing to do with Nationality :) i know loads of Americans who wake early to trade. It more to do with those who dont work can do it, those who do work cant :P Mercenary \| The Azath
BSOD	Posted - 2003.08.20 19:31:00 - [4] Depends on your definition of "success". I have a trade run that nets me 600-900k per 8 jumps (16 roundtrip) - It's always open, although the prices vary (Hence the profit variability.) The runs that give you 2-3mill+ for one run of 8000ish cargo are unavailable for Americans though. ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises
Gravedancer	Posted - 2003.08.20 19:51:00 - [5] hmm... maybe I should pull a Callas and whine to CCP about all the "sure profit" I lose every day simply by being American and having a real job.
Mira Finoso	Posted - 2003.08.20 20:48:00 - [6] Yeah.. I'm not complainin', and I love this game. I can run some trade routes that will make a little money... it's not a huge deal. It would be nice though if they could figure out a way to randomize the NPC supply/demand structure so that all timezones have an equal opportunity for the big trade runs. I mean, even if they put certain trade items on an alternating cycle, instead of the "all at once" bit that happens when the servers come back up... that would be cool. Se la vi.
Mallus Kulov	Posted - 2003.08.21 00:56:00 - [7] Mentioned they are working to correct this...when? Some time from now.
Wodka	Posted - 2003.08.21 10:56:00 - [8] funny but europeans have the same trouble since downtime is in the middle of the day, most of us are working at that time.
Methesda	Posted - 2003.08.21 12:59:00 - [9] Wodka... what you say is true, but the point is that we europeans can still get online after work 3-4 hours before our m8's across the pond. I think CCP should make randomizing the initiation of npc market orders a priority, not just because it would help the US section of players but it would make market trading a lot more fun for everyone... it would mean having to keep a close eye on the market and mad rushed for the good buys. Bring in unusally profitable market orders that appear rarely and the market would turn from drudgery to gumball rally! There is one way of getting round these problems. If you plan your buys and sells ahead of time, you can match the orders with your own that are then fulfilled as soon as downtime is over and the corresponding order comes in to play. E.G. i know that many Kalakiota Corp Factories buy mex 60k units a day at 16isk each. I put in a buy order for mex at 10-13isk (depending on the current market climate), and then ship 60000 units to a kalakiota corp factory. If the original buy order is gone, i place a sell order for the mex at 16isk a unit, and the following day the order has been fulfilled! Voila! Hope this is useful, but i do agree that randomized npc orders would be much more fun! METH-od Man
Pradoker	Posted - 2003.08.21 17:38:00 - [10] Sorry people but I am new to the game and interested in getting involved in the market. Can someone explain to me why the downtime schedule affects the market so much? Are buy and sell orders deleted during this time or what?
Drusilla	Posted - 2003.08.21 17:58:00 - [11] and what are these 2-3 million ISK orders of which you speak?
BSOD	Posted - 2003.08.21 18:30:00 - [12] Quote: Sorry people but I am new to the game and interested in getting involved in the market. Can someone explain to me why the downtime schedule affects the market so much? Are buy and sell orders deleted during this time or what? NPC supply/demand is refreshed at this time. So if you're not on shortly after downtime, you may not ever even know that there was supply for a given item somewhere. To the guy who was asking about 2-3million ISK orders - I assume you mean 2-3million ISK trade runs. Robotics runs are worth 2-3million+ per run. Unfortunately, because people "camp" the NPC supply for robotics, no one that's not on close to downtime can ever trade robotics. The best I've been able to do is 900k per 8-jump one-way run, and most of the time price fluctuations reduce that run to being worth 600k. ---------------- Blue Screen of Death CEO Exodus Enterprises
Drusilla	Posted - 2003.08.21 20:05:00 - [13] So robotics is the be-all, end-all trade route run?
Pradoker	Posted - 2003.08.22 02:14:00 - [14] Quote: Quote: Sorry people but I am new to the game and interested in getting involved in the market. Can someone explain to me why the downtime schedule affects the market so much? Are buy and sell orders deleted during this time or what? NPC supply/demand is refreshed at this time. So if you're not on shortly after downtime, you may not ever even know that there was supply for a given item somewhere. To the guy who was asking about 2-3million ISK orders - I assume you mean 2-3million ISK trade runs. Robotics runs are worth 2-3million+ per run. Unfortunately, because people "camp" the NPC supply for robotics, no one that's not on close to downtime can ever trade robotics. The best I've been able to do is 900k per 8-jump one-way run, and most of the time price fluctuations reduce that run to being worth 600k. So, if I understand this correctly..the demand for robotics is always there...but not the supply..so players scan for NPC's selling robotics shortly after downtime is over and they buy up all the stock..then haul it to whoever is asking the highest price and sell it to them...right?
Finderne	Posted - 2003.08.22 14:07:00 - [15] [quote So, if I understand this correctly..the demand for robotics is always there...but not the supply..so players scan for NPC's selling robotics shortly after downtime is over and they buy up all the stock..then haul it to whoever is asking the highest price and sell it to them...right? That doesn't really describe robotics trade. You're not considering buy orders. There's no need to wait until after DT to buy robotics (and one would be dissapointed if they tried). Buy orders are filled immediately upon refresh of NPC stocks, and the commodities will be waiting in your hangar of the respective station(s). You can specify ranges on buy orders, so rich chars can and do buy up an entire regions supply of an item at their setprice. The trick of it is to place your order just before DT. That's right - CCP employs Last In First Out queue for filling orders . Most robotics supply is bought up automatically this way. The stuff that remains is usually at a much less desirable price. Selling is less cutthroat, but there is a rush to sell items at the highest demand price locations just after DT. Some of this selling takes place on immediately via sell orders. Those are station-specific, so it requires a bit more skill/luck to sell that way. As you can tell, the market is flawed in such a way that it favors those willing and able to play in the narrow slice of time just before and after DT. The rest of the would-be traders get the leftover supply and the lower demand prices that earlier traders didn't deem profitable enough. CCP has made some remarks that indicate they're aware of these market flaws and are working on improvements. But this is a fairly benign problem compared to things that really frustrate customers like CTD and stuck problems. So I don't expect it's getting significant attetion.
Drusilla	Posted - 2003.08.22 18:31:00 - [16] I have to disagre. I think a flaw in the market is one of the msot important things in the game because the entire game is based on a few major pillars, one of which is the market.
Mira Finoso	Posted - 2003.08.22 18:49:00 - [17] LIFO!!?!? Is it documented somewhere that the NPCs fill orders with Last in, First out?? If not, it certainly should be. Thanks for this info, Finderne.
Drusilla	Posted - 2003.08.22 22:10:00 - [18] What should happen, IMHO, is that orders shoudl be filled as they would in the real world - namely, whoever offers the NPC the best prices gets the goods.
Kojee	Posted - 2003.08.22 22:23:00 - [19] Drusilla, I agree with your statement, partially. I think after the first offer is made, and after a certain amount of time has passed and no better offers have surfaced, that order should be fulfilled. This'll simulate a time demand as well as the NPC's looking out for better prices before they make a final decision.
Drusilla	Posted - 2003.08.23 00:00:00 - [20] I like your idea, Kojee.
Thallia	Posted - 2003.08.23 00:05:00 - [21] Remove all NPC trading, add more BPs so that players can build the things only offered by NPC right now, problem solved. Or make the NPC trading all random. --
Falnaerith	Posted - 2003.08.27 18:14:00 - [22] Actually the time-frame works out for me pretty well. Wake up, hit the shower, come out about the time the server starts up, buy enough goods for a couple runs. Go to work, come home and sell em. The only problem: I have a two way run, but i can't sell all the robotics from the first, the buy orders @6760 isk are already filled by the time i get off. The other direction nets me about 6.7 mil, and that stays open all the time, but i don't want to buy robotics and not be able to sell them from one half of the leg. ------------------- Basic truths? Idiots make us rich. - Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them.
Drusilla	Posted - 2003.08.27 20:41:00 - [23] Falnaerith - any chance you'd be willing to teach me how to make runs like that? Look me us as Drusilla in game if you would be willing to help. I want to make money trading, not being a pirate. :)
Falnaerith	Posted - 2003.08.27 20:53:00 - [24] Maybe. We can talk ingame about it. ------------------- Basic truths? Idiots make us rich. - Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them.
Drusilla	Posted - 2003.08.27 21:10:00 - [25] Thanks, I'll send you an Eve-mail if I do not see you online. :)
Falnaerith	Posted - 2003.08.27 21:22:00 - [26] I should be on in a couple hours or so. ------------------- Basic truths? Idiots make us rich. - Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them.
Drusilla	Posted - 2003.09.02 17:15:00 - [27] I tried to look up up but I could not locate a character with that name :(

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