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The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2013.09.02 13:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Placeholder for winter
Using bastion tank to reload ASB sounds too good to pass on Golem/Vargur which become cap independent. You can also tractor your cap boosters around in a can named Jolly Roger, putting the tractor bonus to good use. |
Christine Peeveepeeski
The Imperial Fedaykin
Amarrian Commandos
277
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 16:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Right up until you fight anyone with dreads right?
Oh wait... does your marauder have a cyno too? Its like a bluff within bluffs! |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2013.09.02 18:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
High sec "wars" |
Christine Peeveepeeski
The Imperial Fedaykin
Amarrian Commandos
278
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Posted - 2013.09.02 18:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oh... that's a thing? |
Omega Crendraven
xXFARMERS-LIBERATION-AUTHORITY-RELOADED-REDUXxX
27
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Posted - 2013.09.02 20:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Didn't thought about the tractor beam thing, pretty clever I must say. Aside from that, I can imagine suspect baiting in Vargurs :)
To: Omega Crendraven,
When I'm gonna get paid back bud?
It's been quite some time now....
-Leel, nope
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Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition
Acquisition Of Empire
1131
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Posted - 2013.09.03 01:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
in before "station games got ruined", so I can fill your buckets with my crocodile tears.
The Marauder buff just gave pirates gatecamping hisec gates a heft fork yew.
It just made hisec station camps instantly pointless. More crocodile tears.
It made the world's best cyno bait ship. inB4 rivers of tears.
I think it's awesome. Finally a T2 battleship which is worth its price, and for which you get zomg powers worth training for.
YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Starrakatt
Hunter Killers.
35
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Posted - 2013.09.04 16:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:in before "station games got ruined", so I can fill your buckets with my crocodile tears.
The Marauder buff just gave pirates gatecamping hisec gates a heft fork yew.
It just made hisec station camps instantly pointless. More crocodile tears.
It made the world's best cyno bait ship. inB4 rivers of tears.
I think it's awesome. Finally a T2 battleship which is worth its price, and for which you get zomg powers worth training for.
This is excellent! O.O |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
OLD MAN GANG
556
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Posted - 2013.09.04 16:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
maybe it is time to raise my marauder skill level from 0 to 5 |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
2589
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Posted - 2013.09.04 16:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
If only you could fly away, while they are stuck in space an unable to follow you.
If only you could neut off their hardeners, reducing their tank.
If only you could bump these tanking behemoths off gate/station while they are sieged, then you could shoot them until they run out of cap boosters and gank them...
If only you could permatank them within scram range, say in a t1 frigate, keeping them pinned down while you run them out of cap boosters.
I guess we'll just have to concede these new ships will be unstoppable.
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Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition
Acquisition Of Empire
1140
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Posted - 2013.09.05 01:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
True, these are all valid tactics.
To my mind, your marauder fit for hisec docking games doesn't need an MJD. Your job is to be a douche canoe sitting on undock puffing your chest up and making people hate life. You therefore had a spare mid for a web, as webs will be pretty much standard equipment.
You'll have a reasonable tank while motoring into a nook or cranny of the station to confound your nemesis (the 100MN Tengu bumper). So you fit webs x 2 and a point, and neuts for the T1 frigate trying to be smart.
Re: neuts. Your siege cycle lasts 60s and then you can get repped and capped up by your mates in Augorors / ospreys ready for your next cycle. You also have utility highs ready for Nos. If you're being neuted flat, time your rep cycle after your Nos cycle, and viola, you get a tank under neuting.
When you want to dock, stop aggro and set siege red and conveniently after 60s your aggro and docking timers expire.
Sure you can fly away, but people undocking a 1B ISk hull will probably drop 200M on a faction point, and/or webs and/or have a Tengu/Loki booster. They also have nuts level falloff so you'll want to corkscrew away, except for the Golem, where you'll just want to escape fast. Not that I'd play docking games in a torp Golem.
YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2013.09.05 07:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Update: 82% webs on each marauder. Resist bonus rolled into t2 resists.
Getting better :D
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The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2013.09.05 08:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
The new bonuses, especially t2 resists, make the marauders really cool for all sorts of stuff. 4 spare highs... Tinker dual ASB or RR setups come to mind.
Think Paladins with no resist hole in spider :)
The web bonus solidifies station king marauders. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
1384
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
The Spod wrote:High sec "wars"
I'm quite sure that is not a real thing.
(Edit: Also i'm quite sure you can't tinker with these because you can't give any form of remote assistance while Bastion is on)
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.09.05 13:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Expect the new mini dreads to be buffed in the winter expansion only to see them nerfed right after the next Alliamce tourney. Kept in mind said nerf will have "nothing" to do with the Alliance tourney.....   |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2013.09.05 13:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:The Spod wrote:High sec "wars" I'm quite sure that is not a real thing. (Edit: Also i'm quite sure you can't tinker with these because you can't give any form of remote assistance while Bastion is on)
Bastion does not need to be on :)
Think of it like this: tinker mode with 1 XL ASB using t2 resist or spider mode. When you want ewar immunity one or several marauders enter bastion mode using one asb while also able to reload other. Can use spider/tinker to reload as well.
For reference 1 ASB tanks approx. 1-2k dps with the t2 resist. Hybrid spider adds much more. Bastion ASB tanks 2-4k. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
1384
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 13:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yea just read the Marauder thread
So ******* bad... Just.. What the flying ferocious **** are they thinking?
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
Amarrian Commandos
1284
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Posted - 2013.09.05 16:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
What the flying ferocious **** are they thinking?
they wernt.
Dread work for stuff, lets make a seige module for BS and have mini dread! excellent, oh but lets not make them overpowered so dont give them the 5x damage that dreads get to make their stuff work.
Id FAR rather be flying around doing the same DPS at the expense of a small amount of tanking.
If i ever get to use my maurders lvl 5, it will be for the MJD bonus not the stupid "sitting duck for a minute" module.
Cosmic signature detected. . . .
http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg
I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
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The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2013.09.05 16:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tbh the t2 resists and utility highs alone would warrant marauder price tag. MJD bonus and bastion are just overkill bonuses :) |
Phaade
Debitum Naturae
95
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Posted - 2013.09.05 21:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Spod wrote:Placeholder for winter
Using bastion tank to reload ASB sounds too good to pass on Golem/Vargur which become cap independent. You can also tractor your cap boosters around in a can named Jolly Roger, putting the tractor bonus to good use.
Can you tractor through warp? |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2013.09.06 08:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Phaade wrote:The Spod wrote:Placeholder for winter
Using bastion tank to reload ASB sounds too good to pass on Golem/Vargur which become cap independent. You can also tractor your cap boosters around in a can named Jolly Roger, putting the tractor bonus to good use. Can you tractor through warp?
Nope, neither through microjump as range is limited. |
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
1389
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Posted - 2013.09.06 11:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
The Spod wrote:Tbh the t2 resists and utility highs alone would warrant marauder price tag. MJD bonus and bastion are just overkill bonuses :)
As they are proposed now Marauders are powercreeping the meta a LOT even if you don't count MJD's and bastion
t2 res battleships were never introduced for a reason, its just.. so awful i cannot believe ccp will do this.
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
60
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Posted - 2013.09.06 12:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:powercreeping
Agreed. I could see marauders being t2 resist but adding anything to that is pretty dangerous. The utility highs could even be there to make them RR battleships on steroids. This would do for me on marauders.
MJD + target spectrum breaker + t2 resists could bring back warping when primaried but also introduce undying marauders. Worst case would be if the target breaker would trigger enough to make a high EHP fit really slow to kill even for big fleets. It's a really risky thing, because a bastion marauder ball would be unbreakable by anything similiar sized: the ships would target break making multi target queues suck, while dishing out superior unjammable dps.
CCP seems fixed on the bastion mode and I suppose it would take a lot for them to scrap it. If they have to do bastion, t2 resists should really be ditched for the bastion resist bonus. The original idea was just more balanced. If it's supposed to be a subcap powerhouse only counterable by drone doctrines so be it, but tie it to the bastion mode. |
Fret Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2013.09.06 13:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
You know the list of reasons why you didn't put t2 resists on a bs hull were pretty convincing CCP.
At least I was convinced 
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Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
Sicarius Draconis
131
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Posted - 2013.09.07 23:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
I would just shoot the can. Now u have no reloads. |
Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition
Acquisition Of Empire
1176
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Posted - 2013.09.08 05:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
The Spod wrote:
It's a really risky thing, because a bastion marauder ball would be unbreakable by anything similiar sized: the ships would target break making multi target queues suck, while dishing out superior unjammable dps.
Sentry Domis / ishtars / Slowcats. (assign drones, one ship locks, no TSB)
Anything which involves Dreads, Nyxes.
Bombers. I mean, hello, a bastioned up ball of marauders would be perfect bait for a bomber wing. You've got a whole minute to bomb the crap out of them and there's no escaping.
Yep. Marauders will blot out the sun.
You really don't like this, do you, Spod? Just come out and say "I plain just don't like it for no reason at all which stands up to scrutiny."
YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
64
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Posted - 2013.09.08 10:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:The Spod wrote:
It's a really risky thing, because a bastion marauder ball would be unbreakable by anything similiar sized: the ships would target break making multi target queues suck, while dishing out superior unjammable dps.
Sentry Domis / ishtars / Slowcats. (assign drones, one ship locks, no TSB) Anything which involves Dreads, Nyxes. Bombers. I mean, hello, a bastioned up ball of marauders would be perfect bait for a bomber wing. You've got a whole minute to bomb the crap out of them and there's no escaping. Yep. Marauders will blot out the sun. You really don't like this, do you, Spod? Just come out and say "I plain just don't like it for no reason at all which stands up to scrutiny."
I have mentioned the sentryblob as the only realistic counter to the marauders.
If there are bombers on the field I prefer MJD blinking t2 resist BS to every other subcap. You do not have to use the bastion module fulltime even if you have fitted one.
The minute cycle is quite hard to break in a cyno bombrun. We are looking at 300-500k ehp in hulls that blink out after a minute and won't bastion when bomber wings are identified on field. |
Janeway84
Masters Of Destiny
Pride Before Fall
26
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Posted - 2013.09.09 10:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
I think even with t2 resists the new marauders will just turn to scrap metal aginst 3-4 proteus or 5-8 tornados 
People always find a way to counter stuff in eve. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
1393
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Posted - 2013.09.09 18:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Janeway84 wrote:I think even with t2 resists the new marauders will just turn to scrap metal aginst 3-4 proteus or 5-8 tornados People always find a way to counter stuff in eve.
Alright, now try to counter 20 marauders and 10 logi with the same amount of ships.
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition
Acquisition Of Empire
1188
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 00:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
The Spod wrote:
I have mentioned the sentryblob as the only realistic counter to the marauders.
If there are bombers on the field I prefer MJD blinking t2 resist BS to every other subcap. You do not have to use the bastion module fulltime even if you have fitted one.
The minute cycle is quite hard to break in a cyno bombrun. We are looking at 300-500k ehp in hulls that blink out after a minute and won't bastion when bomber wings are identified on field.
This is an argument based primarily on assumptions. You assume that the marauder fleet knows there are bombers around - this presupposes bad black ops discipline. If this is true, the bomber wing is doing it wrong.
In the marauder thread, you'll note i am not in favour of T2 resists, precisely because of the ability to just run the ships as super-tanky normal BS with logi blob (as Garviel points out). This would be ridiculous.
The first idea, of normal resists, rep bonuses and the basiton module wasn't as frightful as the current iteration - which plays into the whole blob warfare doctrine more easily simply because more resists = better logi.
The first stab at it, with lower resists out of siege, would prevent blob warfare use. in case you missed it with your preoccupation with the TSB and ASBs (which are a nonevent for these ships imo) local reps in fleet fights are pointless whereas buffer is king. So, what's worse? uber local reps and being stuck for 1 minute, or uber resists and catching mad logi? I'd say the latter.
At least the original idea was going to see PVP use restricted to niche specialties and small gang warfare because you basically needed the bastion module to turn on the awesome (but maybe not with the 30% resist bonus, I admit).
Sure, in small gang warfare you might end up evolving tactics that make you a real pain in the butt, but a TSB is worthless for small gang warfare, and ASBs just prolong a horrible death, no matter how insane the tank looks on paper. ie; if you screw up, you just die 10 minutes later.
YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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