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HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
19
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
About time to stir up some more sleepers, eh? This time, lets bring the fight to their (former) outposts!
The C7 and C8 wormhole systems would feature "Sleeper Assembly Hubs" (or something similar) that were built onto the surface of a moon. These hubs continue to produce sleeper ships, despite their former owners having long-since died, teleported, transcended or whatever.
The C7 and C8 wormhole systems would offer enhanced sites (anoms, data and relic sites) similar to C5/6 systems but with the addition of sleeper capital ships produced at the "Sleeper Assembly Hubs."
In addition, every 36-72 hours (random), the "Sleeper Assembly Hubs" detects the presence of any foreign POS and sends an attack wave to neutralize it. This would comprise of 2 sleeper carriers, 1 sleeper dread, 4-8 BS, and an assortment of cruisers and frigates. That would be 1 wave to 1 POS, not 1 wave to EACH POS.
The result? Small WH corps that try to move in would have their towers reinforced and/or destroyed if they go innactive. Large corps get to enjoy POS defense, MUCH more difficult sites, and the constant worrying of sleeper attacks. We could have sleepers warp randomly to grav and ladar sites as well, after being sent from the "Sleeper Assembly Hubs" , even wormholes, too.
Imagine that, coming home and finding 4 sleepers sitting on the wormhole!
Statics could be anything from a C3-C8, or C5-C8.
It's good for players because it adds a completely new side of WH-life that is already kinda present in LS/null (rats warping around a system and attacking miners).
It's good for CCP because it would increase player losses and be a good source of an isk-sink, countering the isk-faucet of the sleeper sites. |
HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
19
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
A follow-up idea for the sites. In the anoms/data/relic sites, the sleeper capital would need to spawn in the last wave of the site. This would result in the players being forced to clear a site 100% in order to get the lucrative capital ship loot, thus letting the site despawn. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
239
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Posted - 2013.09.11 18:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
So I can set up a deathstar and once a day, just pull my noctis beyond the forcefield and start salvaging.... I like. Now actively requesting any faction / new faction willing to produce these:-áhttp://eohgames.com/labs/Ships/Vanir%20Federation%20Talos-á |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
86
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Posted - 2013.09.11 18:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
One problem. Null is class 7 low=8 high=9 Or the other way round.
But yeh your ideas have mostly been brought up before and sound good. WHat happens though if the sleepers spawn and kill your pos before you come online though...That sounds pretty harsh. |
Doc Hollidai
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
34
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Posted - 2013.09.11 18:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote: WHat happens though if the sleepers spawn and kill your pos before you come online though...That sounds pretty harsh.
Same thing that happens if players spawn and kill your pos before you come online. |
Jezza McWaffle
TriFlexure Void-Legion
59
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Posted - 2013.09.11 18:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
My issues with this is do we really need 8 classes of wormholes? Also would it not be very irritating if every few days you had a POS bash going on. How quickly does the sleepers put the POS into reinforced, since not every group has fleets 24/7. |
HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
20
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Posted - 2013.09.11 18:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:One problem. Null is class 7 low=8 high=9 Or the other way round.
Then they program them as class 11, 12, etc and the players still call them C7, C8, etc.
Icarus Able wrote:But yeh your ideas have mostly been brought up before and sound good. WHat happens though if the sleepers spawn and kill your pos before you come online though...That sounds pretty harsh.
That's kind of the idea. Risk == Reward. If your POS is set up well, you can probably drive them off if you have a couple POS gunners (as you should).
An afterthought, C7 = 1x "Sleeper Assembly Hubs" C8 = 3x "Sleeper Assembly Hubs"
So 1 tower in a C8 gets attacked by 3 hubs |
HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
20
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Posted - 2013.09.11 18:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jezza McWaffle wrote:My issues with this is do we really need 8 classes of wormholes? Also would it not be very irritating if every few days you had a POS bash going on. How quickly does the sleepers put the POS into reinforced, since not every group has fleets 24/7.
Jezza, think of the isk! We live like kings off a C5, just imagine.... Capital fights every day.
POS bashing takes a while. Larger corps have ways of getting people to come fight, pop the sleepers, and get like 2b in loot/salvage for nothing more than manning POS guns for 30 minutes.
If a corp can't even do that, well, they won't exist in a C7/8 very long.
And yes, we need more wormholes. Anything to draw more people in |
Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
127
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Posted - 2013.09.11 19:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:Jezza, think of the isk! We live like kings off a C5, just imagine.... Capital fights every day. That's why it's bad.
More isk per hour is not how you present new ideas.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
20
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Posted - 2013.09.11 19:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:HTC NecoSino wrote:Jezza, think of the isk! We live like kings off a C5, just imagine.... Capital fights every day. That's why it's bad. More isk per hour is not how you present new ideas.
More isk per hour, more risk, more content, and more lore (getting closer to the former sleeper home system(s)). |
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Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
87
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Posted - 2013.09.11 19:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:HTC NecoSino wrote:Jezza, think of the isk! We live like kings off a C5, just imagine.... Capital fights every day. That's why it's bad. More isk per hour is not how you present new ideas. More isk per hour, more risk, more content, and more lore (getting closer to the former sleeper home system(s)).
We already know quite a lot about the sleepers. |
Zappity
Kurved Space
368
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Posted - 2013.09.11 19:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Because there's not enough isk in wormholes already? Hmm...
Sleepers attacking POS is good but being able to hack offline POS would be better. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
21
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Posted - 2013.09.11 20:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:We already know quite a lot about the sleepers.
We really don't, though. From what I gathered via CCP posts, blogs and books..
- The first wormhole was the great rift which allowed humanity to move into New Eden.
- There were no other wormholes until a cataclysmic event caused a planet to explode. Suddenly, there were wormholes.
- The Jovians had some sort of knowledge of the sleepers before this event.
- The sleepers are considered "advanced." However, over 8000 years passed between the Eve gate collapsing and the New Eden that we know today. These "dark ages" resulted in colonies falling back into medieval ages technologically, and forgetting much of what was brought from Earth. Who knows for sure where the sleepers came from, or what happened during that 8000 years.
- Nobody knows what happened to the sleepers' owners, but some lore suggested a biochemical weapon they were developing failed and killed them all.
- The Sansha nation was able to make use of wormholes quickly, and almost immediately began using them to travel the universe. (Yet we never see Sansha ships in wormhole space, hmm...)
I think there's a lot of room to expand on the sleeper lore, as well as drawing in new connections and even more content. |
Jezza McWaffle
TriFlexure Void-Legion
59
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Posted - 2013.09.12 05:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Youve convinced me with the more ISK and more fights :P
Rather than loosing Thema's to POS's I can use it to save POS's! |
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bright Side of Death
120
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 05:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Play eve when you older than 50 is bad idea This is another afk cloacking thread? |
HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
23
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Posted - 2013.09.12 10:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vizvig wrote:Play eve when you older than 50 is bad idea
I'm in my mid-twenties actually. |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
63
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Posted - 2013.09.12 11:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm glad someone else wants moarrr sleeper content!
I've long thought sleepers need a bit of a re vamp. Tho I always thought it would be better to have the "sleeper home systems" without moons.... So you cannot move in.
Give them normal / a VARIETY OF SITES from c1 - c6 (or alternatively have different class sleeper homes....)
But what's new?
ACCELERATION GATE KEYS FOUND ONLY IN normal WORMHOLE RELIC AND DATA SITES. .... Yessssss.....
Give wormholer's a TREASURE HUNT/real exploration... Keys would unlock accel gates, and I dunno... Have some hackable cans after the sleepers are dead and give SOME DECENT LOOT - actually.... Awesome loot. Like in FSP's
Scenario..... "Got a sleeper haven key today, think they spawn in the sleeper c3's" ... "oh okey we haven't got a connection to one yet.".. Few days later... "Fred !! Where's your key!! We got a connection.! Lets ride. " - end of scenario :P
- nulli sites can drop tower bp's.... ffs you don't even have to shoot rats in them!.
- off the top of my head.... I do like your idea... But it doesn't add content to the lower class holes
That is all :) |
HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
23
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Posted - 2013.09.12 12:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
One of the biggest perks of WH space is the small-gang pvp. We especially love day-trippers. Requiring keys to access WH anoms would reduce the number of day-trippers, thus reducing content. I can't support that idea.
The higher-class wormholes come with higher risks and need better sites to compensate for the increased risk (and inevitable increased losses). Having a high-class wormhole which can spawn C1 sites would be laughable and makes me wonder if you have even ran sites in WH space. (Your killboard says Null).
My train of thought was C5/6 with bigger sleeper ships, C7/8 with actual outposts built onto moons that cannot be destroyed. C9/10 with a "Sleeper planet" where the sleepers have taken over the surface of a planet and to look at it, all you see are sleeper structures. Attack waves would be so frequent in these systems that it would be very, very hard to keep towers there without having a few people online 24/7. These systems would be for only the largest, most hard-core WH alliances.
These sleeper-present systems would also sometimes drop notes or books in the capital ship wrecks. Logs maybe, or letters that the sleeper ships had recovered from their former owners' ships/corpses which shed more light on what happened to them. |
Malception
Cold Moon Destruction.
128
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Before we go adding new classes of wormholes I'd like to see current deficiencies corrected. For instance, class 4 systems don't get roaming wormholes and I think they should. Black Hole system effects need to fit in with the rest of the system effects where they give buffs to certain elements that can be useful rather than having a random collection of system effects that no one can use.
Once those are done I'd like to see some more development of the Sleeper backstory and possibly the involvement of the Jovians. Ultimately, I am of the opinion that wormholers, living in the riskiest environment in the frontier of unknown space, should reap the greatest rewards and have the opportunity to access the newest content. |
HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
26
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Posted - 2013.09.12 19:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Malception wrote:Before we go adding new classes of wormholes I'd like to see current deficiencies corrected. For instance, class 4 systems don't get roaming wormholes and I think they should. Black Hole system effects need to fit in with the rest of the system effects where they give buffs to certain elements that can be useful rather than having a random collection of system effects that no one can use.
Once those are done I'd like to see some more development of the Sleeper backstory and possibly the involvement of the Jovians. Ultimately, I am of the opinion that wormholers, living in the riskiest environment in the frontier of unknown space, should reap the greatest rewards and have the opportunity to access the newest content.
C4s get roaming WHs all the time. I've found they tend to get roaming outbound WHs to C3s or other C4s.
Black holes have their benefit. IE: My tengu going 600m/s while webbed? that certainly helps tank the sleeper BSs.
We definitely need more lore and more development on the sleepers. CCP wants to increase the "mystery" of wormhole space, this is a great conduit through which to do it. |
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Vizvig
Savage Blizzard Bright Side of Death
120
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
In mid-twenties, these things in the MMO, do not want. This is another afk cloacking thread? |
kerradeph
Aliastra Gallente Federation
29
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:Icarus Able wrote:We already know quite a lot about the sleepers. We really don't, though. From what I gathered via CCP posts, blogs and books..
- The first wormhole was the great rift which allowed humanity to move into New Eden.
- There were no other wormholes until a cataclysmic event caused a planet to explode. Suddenly, there were wormholes.
- The Jovians had some sort of knowledge of the sleepers before this event.
- The sleepers are considered "advanced." However, over 8000 years passed between the Eve gate collapsing and the New Eden that we know today. These "dark ages" resulted in colonies falling back into medieval ages technologically, and forgetting much of what was brought from Earth. Who knows for sure where the sleepers came from, or what happened during that 8000 years.
- Nobody knows what happened to the sleepers' owners, but some lore suggested a biochemical weapon they were developing failed and killed them all.
- The Sansha nation was able to make use of wormholes quickly, and almost immediately began using them to travel the universe. (Yet we never see Sansha ships in wormhole space, hmm...)
I think there's a lot of room to expand on the sleeper lore, as well as drawing in new connections and even more content.
correct on the first two, past that you're missing some thing. the jove are actually the guardians of the sleepers, the sleepers are the main part of their population while the jove are modified keepers that were supposed to make sure the sleepers made it to their destination. yes, the jove were the less intelligent of the race, but overall they are similar to the difference of people in the human race that would have been selected to go on an interstellar journey to colonize other galaxies. we know that the jove kept modifying themselves to be able to better care for the sleepers, and as they did that, they started creating more AI and integrating more of it into themselves. eventually, this created a virus that killed off most of the jove. the sleepers are still alive, the drones that we call sleepers are part of the protection of the jove, the sleepers have been found and we are gradually killing off their entire race to create the dust mercs. and just because sansha have wormholes down't mean they are traversing W-space, just that they can create wormholes from one place to another. and considering how fast the news spread about the horrors that waited in W-space, I'm guessing sansha didn't feel like wasting resources trying to conquer enemies that he couldn't add to his own army through brain implants and modification.
as to the actual thread, it could be a neat idea, force consistent activity in a corporation or even alliance so that they don't lose their assets in the form of POSes and anything stored at those poses. maybe make them star clusters that would all act like a single system for being on the same node, but the stars would be out of normal scanning range but you could warp between them by markers set by the sleepers millennia ago. so maybe 300-400 au apart. sure you can still toss probes over, but D-scan would not be useful, and it would be relatively decent since it would take a respectably long time to warp between them but not a prohibitively long time. |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
63
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 11:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:One of the biggest perks of WH space is the small-gang pvp. We especially love day-trippers. Requiring keys to access WH anoms would reduce the number of day-trippers, thus reducing content. I can't support that idea.
The higher-class wormholes come with higher risks and need better sites to compensate for the increased risk (and inevitable increased losses). Having a high-class wormhole which can spawn C1 sites would be laughable and makes me wonder if you have even ran sites in WH space. (Your killboard says Null).
My train of thought was C5/6 with bigger sleeper ships, C7/8 with actual outposts built onto moons that cannot be destroyed. C9/10 with a "Sleeper planet" where the sleepers have taken over the surface of a planet and to look at it, all you see are sleeper structures. Attack waves would be so frequent in these systems that it would be very, very hard to keep towers there without having a few people online 24/7. These systems would be for only the largest, most hard-core WH alliances.
These sleeper-present systems would also sometimes drop notes or books in the capital ship wrecks. Logs maybe, or letters that the sleeper ships had recovered from their former owners' ships/corpses which shed more light on what happened to them.
Well I did say off the top of my head.... I just want more mystery and unknown. (And this is a nul alt, I don't post on my wh main too much time logging in and out of the forums ;P )
"These systems would be for only the largest, most hard-core WH alliances. " This just = more isk for larger corps/alliance's. It will be very fast that a routine is established and it turns into a grind.
Any change has to be made across the board. New players can't get involved at that level. -please don't pretend that they can, let alone a corp/alliance accepting a scrub at that level of 'hard-core-ness' and like it or not any expansion CCP creates is going to be newb friendly.. = more subs.
I'd love the ships dropping lore.... Like actually LOVE it. Even if it leads nowhere. Least its something.
For the ultimate injection of love and players into wh space the 'only' thing CCP would need to do is introduce sleeper hulls... (Maybe tanky fkers that only have bonuses to damage against other sleeper ships/hulls. -maybe you need a cybernetic sleeper interface implant to use them, bpc's that only drop in wh space, and can only be built in wh space ? Sleeper construction array? = attack that pos. just spit balling) but again.... Any change has to be universal. :)
O7 Dringy.
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HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
33
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dring Dingle wrote:"These systems would be for only the largest, most hard-core WH alliances. " This just = more isk for larger corps/alliance's. It will be very fast that a routine is established and it turns into a grind.
Agreed, and that's kind of the point. It gives people in the lower class WHs something to strive for and something to progress towards, similar to Level 1-5 missions.
Quote: Any change has to be made across the board. New players can't get involved at that level. -please don't pretend that they can, let alone a corp/alliance accepting a scrub at that level of 'hard-core-ness' and like it or not any expansion CCP creates is going to be newb friendly.. = more subs.
Better end-game content (so to speak, for WHs at least) = fewer lost subs.
Quote:I'd love the ships dropping lore.... Like actually LOVE it. Even if it leads nowhere. Least its something. For the ultimate injection of love and players into wh space the 'only' thing CCP would need to do is introduce sleeper hulls... (Maybe tanky fkers that only have bonuses to damage against other sleeper ships/hulls. -maybe you need a cybernetic sleeper interface implant to use them, bpc's that only drop in wh space, and can only be built in wh space ? Sleeper construction array? = attack that pos. just spit balling) but again.... Any change has to be universal. :)
Sleeper hull ships FTW :D |
Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
45
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
+ 1 for harder wormholes (in my opinion class 9 should be nearly impossible to find or kill their residents, anchoring POS should not be an option unless you have caps guarding it 24/7-just give players something to do before they collect goodies and isk) + 1 for sleepers camping wormholes and sometimes even make them automatically join fights. (sleepers should sometimes detect any kind of aggression withing the system and attack both parties randomly. + 1 for sleepers randomly attacking POS and reinforcing it if there is nobody to defend it. V |
HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
35
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Posted - 2013.09.18 15:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Horus V wrote:+ 1 for sleepers camping wormholes and sometimes even make them automatically join fights. (sleepers should sometimes detect any kind of aggression withing the system and attack both parties randomly. + 1 for sleepers randomly attacking POS and reinforcing it if there is nobody to defend it.
I'm thinking that these two ideas should be spread to all wormholes
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HTC NecoSino
TriFlexure Void-Legion
41
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Posted - 2013.10.29 17:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bumpetty bump |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2752
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 17:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
HTC NecoSino wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:HTC NecoSino wrote:Jezza, think of the isk! We live like kings off a C5, just imagine.... Capital fights every day. That's why it's bad. More isk per hour is not how you present new ideas. More isk per hour, more risk, more content, and more lore (getting closer to the former sleeper home system(s)).
NPC's do not truly give risk... It is only a matter of time before people figure out how to beat them and farm them for the reward.
Players are what give risk, so why don't you actually add in the risk:
So... you want capital sleepers to blap... fine... But for whatever reason, you cannot close the WH's into/out of these systems. Give them standard wh attributes (max mass, max jumpable mass, and most importantly, mass regen). Then, anytime you "exceed" the mass limit of the whole, it fades out rather than closes so the WH may regenerate its mass limits. When faded, the WH becomes impassible for ships while it regens mass. After ~20 minutes of being faded, the WH re-materializes with a new mass limit around 700m m3 (i.e. you can send a cap one way through it, an 3x Orca ~trips, or hole fleet of AHACs).
Furthermore, It seems ******** to me for you to live in a WH and let your POS autokill sleepers for you to loot/salvage.... HELL NO. If you want harder or more badass sleepers... fine... but you need to get a group of pilots together to go kill them!!
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Daide Vondrichnov
Aggressive Behaviours Nap or War
0
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Posted - 2013.10.30 02:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
The number of C8 wormhole should be 10 or less in order to push people to fight for them, Just like a "King of the hill" mode. |
xKOMODOx
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Some good and interesting ideas. WH always need a little extra love...
How about a new "class" of WH - M31 Unstable Blackhole, which decay rapidly and since it is unstable randomly changes the perimeters every 36-48 hours. Center of gravity changes which causes different effects to ships, POSs and sleepers. Also, the k162 can be random from c1-c6 mass and to "spice up" we just add some bad ass sleepers occasionally. |
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