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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.08.22 11:12:00 -
[1]
People probably won't like this idea.. uhm.. make shield resistances only half as effective against their damage.
Example, if you use an explosive cruise against a ship, it only absorbs 30% of the damage, instead of 60%.
Another example, if someone is using an EM shield hardener and boosts their shields to 70% and is hit by an EM missle, it only absorbs 35% damage.. and so forth.
I mean.. missles are costly, move slowly, launcher ROF is very slow..
Idea just popped into my head, probably not a good idea, but I figure I'd go with it.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2003.08.22 11:34:00 -
[2]
Couldn't hurt :p
Although shield hardeners are a bit good atm and I'm not sure how fair it would be to give the only real way of penetrating them to missile armed ships.
Basically missiles need to travel much faster, be a bit cheaper to make, and the heavy launchers need to fire faster.
As it is, even if you are willing to spend the tons and tons of cash, a h50 missile turret doesnt' equal a 250 rail gun in terms of damage - not even close.
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Eilora Wingshy
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Posted - 2003.08.22 11:35:00 -
[3]
I have no idea what the dev's thoughts are on the missile thingy (I know TomB knows about it at least) by I think that this can only be an improvement in my world. Perhaps there are better ways, (there prolly is) but this is far better than nothing.
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My opinions are my own and not those of my corp
I don't suffer from insanity, I revel in it.
If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be research. |
Saladin
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Posted - 2003.08.22 11:35:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Saladin on 22/08/2003 11:36:48
This sounds very much like an idea that a polaris guy posted in another thread (sorry can't find it now). He suggested that missles go straight through the shields and damage the armor.
While I am all for making missles better, I think a lot of people will be against suggestions like these since it will give a big boost to npc pirates.
I think there are some basic changes needed for missles before we start talking about more damage. Without these basic changes the added damage is irrelvant:
1) FoF missles: The should stop acting like expensive defender missles. They should not fly around and then return to hit you. They should not go after gang members or their drones.
2)Splash damage: Missles that are fired from one ship tend to blow each other up. The first missle hits, then the second is blown up by splash damage from the first. I think this needs some tweaking
3) R.O.Fs: some of the heavy launchers have ridiculous ROF stats. I think the H-50 has a base ROF of 17 seconds, meaning you are better off firing one missle, reloading and firing again.
4) Range: Missles definitely need more range. Either their speed or flight time should be increased
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(c) Copyright Saladin, 2005.
Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.08.22 11:45:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 22/08/2003 11:46:51
Yeah that is another good idea.. missles should have an increased chance to penetrate shields.. I mean that would make tactical shield manipulation skill actually do something..
And yes, the ROF on missle launchers is ridiculous. You should see the 'Seige Launcher'.. ROF of 24seconds, w t f.
My XR-3200s have a ROF of 11.24 seconds or so with Missle Op 5.. I mean yeah, I'm better off using a M-12 Arbalest and reloading, now that you mention it. Only thing better about the slower firing higher capacity launchers is the fact that lugging around missles uses up a ton of cargo space (another pitfall of missles, in general).
Oh yeah, one more thing.. MISSLES NEED TO STOP BLOWING UP CONTAINERS. I took out a Dominix once and blew up the things damn container he left behind, ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
I am still upset about that. :(
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.08.22 11:58:00 -
[6]
Jim,
CC's should be a bit tougher now... I use rockets a lot (just for the fun of it) and have blown up quite a few CC's with them when the rat indeed decided to get wasted.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2003.08.22 12:00:00 -
[7]
That is actually a good point Saladin.
We can't really upgrade missiles until unless NPC missile shooting guys are changed. They spam endless numbers of missiles like there is no tomorrow.
Missiles are supposed to be a very expensive, very powerful weapon. obviously you can't have NPC's, who care nothing about price, using them as heavily as they do.
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Valeria
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Posted - 2003.08.22 12:54:00 -
[8]
I wouldn't really mind a simple slight increase in damage and speed. But then again I don't use enough launchers to get the "let's blow each other up before we reach the target" effect, so I don't know about that.
But say... about 600 damage for torpedos, 350 m/s. Not sure what stock speed of cruise missiles are, but 400 damage and 450 m/s? Etc.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.08.22 13:03:00 -
[9]
Cruises are atm. 300 damage, 600m/s.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2003.08.22 14:30:00 -
[10]
I think missiles need to about 1000 m/s.
350 m/s would mean a missile would take like a full minute to reach someone 20km away. You can entirely destroy a cruiser in less time than that :D
Missiles need to go fast, very very fast, and be fired much faster from heavy missile racks - that's the only way for the DPS of missiles to approach that of turrets.
The idea, since missiles cost way more than turrets, is for the DPS to at least EQUAL turrets and possibly be HIGHER. Not massively lower :)
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.08.22 14:35:00 -
[11]
 Quote:
I think missiles need to about 1000 m/s.
350 m/s would mean a missile would take like a full minute to reach someone 20km away. You can entirely destroy a cruiser in less time than that :D
Missiles need to go fast, very very fast, and be fired much faster from heavy missile racks - that's the only way for the DPS of missiles to approach that of turrets.
The idea, since missiles cost way more than turrets, is for the DPS to at least EQUAL turrets and possibly be HIGHER. Not massively lower :)
Okay I was just fighting an Armageddon one on one. I used cruise missles on him from 15km away. The guys freaking shields were way gone before the first ones hit, haha. I have to admit though, once all 6 landed, it was lights out for him. :)
Missles should be quite a bit faster, I agree.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Valeria
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Posted - 2003.08.22 14:51:00 -
[12]
I think that Torpedos should actually be slow, with massive damage once they do hit. Torpedos should basically only be viable against (webbed) Bships or large stationary targets. (Stations, platforms etc.) Cruise missiles should be the most powerful against any other kind of target, with much superior speed.
450 damage for torpedos is definitly not enough considering their speed. Maybe 600 won't be either. How about 800? 
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.08.22 14:54:00 -
[13]
Quote:
I think that Torpedos should actually be slow, with massive damage once they do hit. Torpedos should basically only be viable against (webbed) Bships or large stationary targets. (Stations, platforms etc.) Cruise missiles should be the most powerful against any other kind of target, with much superior speed.
450 damage for torpedos is definitly not enough considering their speed. Maybe 600 won't be either. How about 800?
Missles have two defects, inability to deliver their payload in a reasonable time and the insane cost to deliver very little damage when compared to turrets.
Increasing missle damage won't help a whole lot, they already do a ton of damage. The fact they don't even factor into a battle until it's too late, is the real problem.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Replicant Amara
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Posted - 2003.08.22 15:07:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Replicant Amara on 22/08/2003 15:12:29
Edited by: Replicant Amara on 22/08/2003 15:09:58
That is true?
Why missiles are less powerful than a turret? They suppose to be more expensive and should do more damage than ammunition
Maybe they were more or equal when the only ships available where the frigates and cruisers... but with the turrets of the battle ships and the new modification on medium turrets... those missiles are water balloons...
Suggestions:
Increase their speed and damage from the rockets to the torpedoes but make this changes:
-Frigates can only fire: rockets and light missiles
-Cruiser: can fire up to heavy and cruiser missiles. and
-Battle ships can fire up to: torpedoes
In this way the powerful missiles will be also limited to the type of ship you are using...
The other consideration as defense on these powerful weapon will be the agility of your ship... if you have special agility modules the more difficult of your speedy missile to hit a ship.... this will give those modules something to do in this game and a way to defend from them. (you will need to use a medium slot to be able to be inmune to them, and making the choice to trade a turret modifier for a module to avoid deadly missiles
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.22 15:20:00 -
[15]
Edited by: j0sephine on 22/08/2003 15:21:42
clickie, clickie
(some actual discussion on the subject starts from page 2 or so..)
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Zenos
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Posted - 2003.08.22 17:13:00 -
[16]
Also add, increase heavy missile launcher capacity.
Seriously, only being able to hold 2 torps on the largest heavy launchers is increadbly a chore to micromanage as there are other things you have to do. Especially if you are doing a lot of different counter measures. Going back and forth between the weapons and mid-slots on the HUD interface is very klunky.
And for whatever reasons, npc pirates missiles always do maximum damage, but PC missiles are affected by players resistant type.
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Kayosoni
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Posted - 2003.08.22 18:14:00 -
[17]
I'll take an idea from Starsiege. Give missiles a minimum range too. Let's say we gave cruise missiles a minimum range of 2500m, which means they wouldn't start tracking, and would go at a slow speed until they got that far out, and then start to track and go about 1200m/s. This would make them effective weapons against cruisers and battleships.
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Currently Playing Lineage 2 - Erica Server |
QBall
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Posted - 2003.08.22 18:24:00 -
[18]
H-50 Arblest can hold 3 torps, not much better but still better eh :)
Yah give my raven some missle luv pls.
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"OMG IT'S TRAMMEL 2.0!!!!"
-QBall
And
QQ is QQ |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.08.22 18:33:00 -
[19]
"And for whatever reasons, npc pirates missiles always do maximum damage, but PC missiles are affected by players resistant type."
What? No.
NPC missiles hit for the same as players:
Havocs 60 damage
Thunderbolts 150 damage
Widowmakers 120 damage
Scourge 90 damage (sp?).
Obviously, the values are vs. shields without hardeners.
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Lartfor
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Posted - 2003.08.22 18:55:00 -
[20]
How about different lvls of missles... Like you can get the blue print for proto type missles and so on so forth. So a high end Torp could do 600 instead of like 450 or something like that, and have longer range and faster speed. Maybee that would work.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2003.08.22 19:12:00 -
[21]
I think to be competitive with, say, a 250 rail gun, a cruise missile needs to be able to cross 20km in 8 seconds.
A cruise missile launcher needs to be able to spit out a cruise missile every 8 seconds.
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DrSeuss
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Posted - 2003.08.22 19:20:00 -
[22]
Im all for helping out the missiles, In RL {I know this is a game} very few vessels can survive a single missile hit. However, if missiles get more damage {please  } Then I would also like to see countermeasures or missile jammers added as well.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2003.08.22 19:32:00 -
[23]
I think right now we need to look at getting missiles to their targets faster. It doesnt' matter if a torpedo does a kabillion damage if you've already annhilated the target with your turrets before it arrives.
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Laarz Kaledon
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Posted - 2003.08.22 20:10:00 -
[24]
I'm not sure why nobody ever remembers that the different tech levels of missiles will be what make them better, etc. This is only the 1st level of tech. Tech 2 missiles will surely be better than what's out now.
Did I miss something said by CCP regarding this issue that no new missiles will be released as tech goes up or something?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.22 20:19:00 -
[25]
"I'm not sure why nobody ever remembers that the different tech levels of missiles will be what make them better, etc. This is only the 1st level of tech. Tech 2 missiles will surely be better than what's out now."
... I think 'tis doesn't really matter much because a) the problem is lack of balance between the items which are all tech 1... and b) even if tech 2 missiles might be better, so will be tech 2 turrets hence this lack of balance is likely to be carried over to higher tech levels...
... not to mention some problems with missiles are a result of underlying game code, not exactly their stats...
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.08.22 20:21:00 -
[26]
penetrating shields? Maybe, when shields are low enough.
totally go through shields? no..
Increase speed and dmg? Yes, but not to the insane ammount, and when alter this make sure defender missles arent bugged like they are now.
Against turrets i can defend myself with certain modules to make them track me harder... But missles are 100% hit, therefor they need to be countered.
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Valeria
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Posted - 2003.08.22 23:50:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Missles have two defects, inability to deliver their payload in a reasonable time and the insane cost to deliver very little damage when compared to turrets.
Increasing missle damage won't help a whole lot, they already do a ton of damage. The fact they don't even factor into a battle until it's too late, is the real problem.
All i'm saying is that some variation is nice. It would be boring if each new missile type is just a faster, more damaging version of the previous, ie. light > heavy > cruise. Rockets and Torpedos are a bit unique now in how and against waht they are usable, I think this should remain.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.23 00:50:00 -
[28]
Why get all complicated?
Give missiles a 300% increase on damage straight across the board and call it a day. They have enough drawbacks to easily justify a 500% increase, imo
They're extremely easy to intercept with straight guns.
They're extremely easy to intercept with Defenders
They take a huge amount of cargo space
They have no items to increase RoF
They have only one skill to increase RoF
They're extremely expensive.
So just hop of the damage a lot and make them a real threat. Now where'd I put that Breacher... 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
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