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Market for RAM, doesnt make sense to me

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Stogee	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:54:00 - [1] Edited by: Stogee on 11/01/2006 14:57:36 I was thinking of hopping onto the production wagon and manufacturing all RAM's. I just finished one production run of Star Ship Tech, when I wondered if it'd be worth it. Is the production of Tech2 equipment large enough to allow other players the possibility of manufacturing RAM's for sale. I dont think it does. Because players who have invested in manufacturing tech 2 gear, assumably, will have invested in the skills to maximize their profit margin. So why would they buy RAM's from other players if it's more economical to manufacture them, themselves. It just seems to me another way for Tech2 producers to retain even more ISK. Edit -- Or am I just being stupid? I've probably not taken something into consideration?
Stogee	Posted - 2006.01.11 14:54:00 - [2] Edited by: Stogee on 11/01/2006 14:57:36 I was thinking of hopping onto the production wagon and manufacturing all RAM's. I just finished one production run of Star Ship Tech, when I wondered if it'd be worth it. Is the production of Tech2 equipment large enoughEVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums
Tas Devil	Posted - 2006.01.11 15:04:00 - [3] Edited by: Tas Devil on 11/01/2006 15:07:24 Originally by: Stogee I was thinking of hopping onto the production wagon and manufacturing all RAM's. I just finished one production run of Star Ship Tech, when I wondered if it'd be worth it. Is the production of Tech2 equipment large enough to allow other players the possibility of manufacturing RAM's for sale. I dont think it does. Because players who have invested in manufacturing tech 2 gear, assumably, will have invested in the skills to maximize their profit margin. So why would they buy RAM's from other players if it's more economical to manufacture them, themselves. It just seems to me another way for Tech2 producers to retain even more ISK. RAM cost = trivial comapred to t2 manufacturing profits...sorry but you got it wrong ...only thing affecting RAM is size and size and size... they are bulky so manufacturing them is best done on site where you use them... no one likes having to buy 10,000 items each 100m3 in volume 7 jumps from where they need them.... its not going to make t2 production more or less profitable...stop whinning about t2 profits...it has nothing to do with this... if you want to make RAM production profitable and a worthy business try and think how you can add value. 1st t2 producers have always a limited number of production runs they can do. Manufacturing RAM adds to the load...I'm sure they could do without. 2nd Transport is an issue. LOgical conclusion ...if you manufacture loads of RAM on site in the heaviest and busiest stations of manufacturing capitals (nonni-Jita-Rens etc....and I miss some) you may find that people will buy them out of convenience and the lack of blocking a production run even if there is a mark up and profit on them. Rather then constantly whinning about the t2 profits people should use their heads and grey matter to sniff out opportunities to add value somewhere in the production chain... but of course its a lot easier to whine... Now you could even do better and get in touch with a heavy t2 producer and try and get a contract to make his RAM... secure a buyer and a fixed agreed price...which makes you happy and makes him happy he has a guaranteed source of RAM at non variable price... Also bare in mind RAM costs 25-30k p.u. to make (not sure for all I only use some and this is based on those I use) if you think you'll make 70k profit per item ... well you have no clue are greedy and will not succeed... unfortunatly RAM production is about as easy to move into as any t1 manufacturing (look at cost of BPOs) so unless you are competitive and forge a long term relationship with a t2 producer you are likely not going to have a great margin. my 2 cents... The best Laught ever ...
Stogee	Posted - 2006.01.11 15:09:00 - [4] Edited by: Stogee on 11/01/2006 15:16:34 Edited by: Stogee on 11/01/2006 15:11:40 Edited by: Stogee on 11/01/2006 15:10:12 RAM cost = trivial comapred to t2 manufacturing profits...sorry but you got it wrong ...only thing affecting RAM is size and size and size... they are bulky so manufacturing them is best done on site where you use them... no one likes having to buy 10,000 items each 100m3 in volume 7 jumps from where they need them.... But RAM are only 15m3 now. Also, I was not 'whining' about tech2 profits. Give it a rest about whining ffs. I was just asking whether people thought it would be viable to do this and make a profit. I'm getting sick of 'high n mithy vets' dubbing anything they like as 'whining'. Off your high horse. For your personal benefit: Economics 101 Profits does not equate to "profit margin". A profit margin can be 10isk, it could be 10 million isk. Instead of constantly whining about people whining about tech2 profits, why don't you use some grey matter and actually read a post? The thing is, anyone producing RAM would want add their mark up in order to make some ISK. Why pay the mark up when you can do it yourself?
Tas Devil	Posted - 2006.01.11 15:19:00 - [5] because you can only have so many production runs at once ... and RAM production has now added another load of production run requirements for t2 items... thus they will bother t2 producers from the point of view of requiring more production runs per final t2 ietm. As such by subcontracting RAM production you avoid blocking your own production run limits (even if you have 6 accounts) and as such the subcontractor adds value. if RAM is now 15m3 its even better for you... build them in a station that isn't busy... but ship them to where they are needed to sell them...and I am sure you will sell them. FYI I use a lot of RAM electronics... but I can't be arsed to make them... they cost ~27k p.u. to make and we will be paying a producer 60k p.u. for a constant supply delivered to where we need them. The main condition is reliability here ... the 60k price tag doesn't impact t2 profits by much. and yet it offers a producer a 100%+ markup on his own work. Trust me not all senior players are on a high horse... but I do get fed up with having to spoon feed anything to lazy people... The best Laught ever ...
Erfnam	Posted - 2006.01.11 19:46:00 - [6] There is a market, since as Tas put it, t2 producers would rather not waste slots on something as (now) readily available as RAMs. All additional costs incurred for t2 production is filtered down to the consumer. -- TCSyn (in game) Casino with slots & blackjack. Join channel "TCSyn Casino". TCSyn is recruiting Contract RAM production @ 55k pu. mail me daily type &
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.11 22:55:00 - [7] T2 producers won't produce their own RAM. Why? Because that's something you're stuck building when you could instead be building your T2 items. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
KHEN	Posted - 2006.01.12 09:13:00 - [8] Edited by: KHEN on 12/01/2006 09:13:29 I've bought all the R.A.M bpo, but I won't produce these. It is just a backup in case on major shortage. I intend to buy all the R.A.Ms from the market or from specialized manufacturers. BTW I'm absolutely not a major T2 manufacturer actually, just holding 6 or 7 T2 BPO's and not hte most wanted of course
Stogee	Posted - 2006.01.12 14:53:00 - [9] Edited by: Stogee on 12/01/2006 14:53:49 Thanks for the replies. How do they manage to churn out RAM Electronics for just 27k per unit? Is that with max production skills and high ME? with high standing? My base costs are alot higher than that :/ Starship tech take the same amount of resources to produce I think too. Maybe I can compete if I can supply in large enough quantities and in a reliable fashion like Tas said.
Jabba DaSlut	Posted - 2006.01.12 15:29:00 - [10] Edited by: Jabba Da*** on 12/01/2006 15:32:41* Originally by: Erfnam All additional costs incurred for t2 production is filtered down to the consumer. RAMS cost dont even make up 1% in a lot of the big t2 jobs, recently seen a tech 2 hulk go for 300 mill.. you can gather the tech 2 components for about 10 mill, can build a covetor for about 20 - 25mill, and now the rams cost less than amill.. to be honest, its not just "costs" being filtered down to the consumer.. but i completely understand so its not a dig at t2 manufacturers, its just one of those things that seems "unfair" to the people on the bottom rung buying the products.

Tas Devil	Posted - 2006.01.12 16:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Stogee Edited by: Stogee on 12/01/2006 14:53:49 Thanks for the replies. How do they manage to churn out RAM Electronics for just 27k per unit? Is that with max production skills and high ME? with high standing? My base costs are alot higher than that :/ Starship tech take the same amount of resources to produce I think too. Maybe I can compete if I can supply in large enough quantities and in a reliable fashion like Tas said. My quoted price for Ram electronics was based on an unresearched BPO I bought as back up in case my contracted supplier fails to deliver (which will mean immediate cancelling of contract - reliability is a must in t2 producer supplying) anyways its a rought figure... I just quickly looked at the mins and multiplied by average mineral cost in my region (lonetrek)... I do have PE5 of course so that will impact it... On a side note don't bother getting in the manufacturing arena without PE5 or at least try and get it ASAP... the more common the good you make the more important that skill is to lower your cost... The best Laught ever ... Credit goes to TheKiller8 for this :)
Shugo Kazuma	Posted - 2006.01.12 18:50:00 - [12] Yes, T2 people might make their own RAMs, but look at it like this, every ram they're producing is 1 less factory where they could be making a ship or equipment or something. Enter reasonably priced ram. As long as it remains at reasonable price levels, the T2 manufacturers will undoubtly buy ram off the market unless they have the spare factory slots and researched bpos to produce these at mineral cost.
Stogee	Posted - 2006.01.12 22:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Tas Devil Originally by: Stogee Edited by: Stogee on 12/01/2006 14:53:49 Thanks for the replies. How do they manage to churn out RAM Electronics for just 27k per unit? Is that with max production skills and high ME? with high standing? My base costs are alot higher than that :/ Starship tech take the same amount of resources to produce I think too. Maybe I can compete if I can supply in large enough quantities and in a reliable fashion like Tas said. My quoted price for Ram electronics was based on an unresearched BPO I bought as back up in case my contracted supplier fails to deliver (which will mean immediate cancelling of contract - reliability is a must in t2 producer supplying) anyways its a rought figure... I just quickly looked at the mins and multiplied by average mineral cost in my region (lonetrek)... I do have PE5 of course so that will impact it... On a side note don't bother getting in the manufacturing arena without PE5 or at least try and get it ASAP... the more common the good you make the more important that skill is to lower your cost... I can actually match that price for Starship Tech now. Problem is, got to find a buyer. :/ So Jita you say?
Tregaa Viskne	Posted - 2006.01.13 00:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Stogee So Jita you say? Yep - you're only problem is, you probably wont find a factory slot in Jita this side of next Saturday. I could be wrong - I generally try to avoid jita like the plague despite being in the next region - but I'm guessing they'll be pretty queued up. Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies?
Feyd Darkholme	Posted - 2006.01.13 10:16:00 - [15] Edited by: Feyd Darkholme on 13/01/2006 10:17:42 There is definately a T2 comp/R.A.M. market for you if you do it smart. I build some of my own comps and R.A.M.s because some of them are priced at a high markup and I can build them myself quicker and cheaper. Plus there's the logistics for transporting R.A.M.s especially. I do however buy some other ones from third parties because they are reasonably priced. Sort of a weird thing for a T2 producer to say considering the overinflated price of many T2 items, but well... Think about it, what would you do, and what would you want as a T2 producer? Oh and not every T2 producer is a megastore like NAGA. There are tons of people like me who have maybe 1-3 T2 things they produce that have plenty of extrs factory slots for producing the parts they need. ---------------
Halada	Posted - 2006.01.13 22:22:00 - [16] Edited by: Halada on 13/01/2006 22:23:38 n/m


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