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Matthias Thullmann
Dynatron Inc. The Volition Cult
9
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Posted - 2013.09.16 03:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
A special type of web. Their velocity reduction is the same as tech two webs, and they have a 10km range.
This is where it gets interesting. Aside from their 10 km optimal they have a falloff range for 10km. They lose 10% effectiveness every km into falloff. Example: 10km = 60% velocity reduction (optimal) 11km = 54% velocity reduction (falloff begins) 12km = 48% 13km = 42% 14km = 36% 15km = 30% 16km = 24% 17km = 18% 18km = 12% 19km = 6% 20km = 0%
In some ways it's a "nope" module, the closer someone approaches you the slower they get. Also useful in fleets, where boosted and overheated it might allow you to slow someone down enough that they can't escape a bubble in time, although debatable.
For balancing, say only one can be fitted on interceptor, interdictor or heavy interdictor. Takes a high slot and about twice the cap of a normal web. Maybe not affected by hull bonuses? Propulsion Jamming V of course.
Bit of complex coding but you can do it CCP!
Well either that or fix webber drones. <.< >.> |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
208
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Posted - 2013.09.16 04:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you want long webs there are already ships for that, and there are rigs to buff webbing drones.
Also this is entirely not how falloff works.
Webs are intentionally short ranged because they're extremely powerful, hence why ships with long webs don't also get velocity factor bonuses or (for the most part) massive tanks. (T3s are in a bit of an awkward place that needs some tweaking)
Plus, among the other problems this offers no significant trade-offs over a T2 web, it's just a flat upgrade, there's no trade-off that makes it anything but a flat upgrade from a T2 web. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
47
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Posted - 2013.09.16 07:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Plus, among the other problems this offers no significant trade-offs over a T2 web, it's just a flat upgrade, there's no trade-off that makes it anything but a flat upgrade from a T2 web. This. If you say started at 5km with a standard 60% reduction and worked down to like 5% @ 16km it might make more sense but would probably still be a terrible idea for those very sensible reasons stated ^^ Travelling at the speed of love. |
Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
155
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Posted - 2013.09.16 07:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Plus, among the other problems this offers no significant trade-offs over a T2 web, it's just a flat upgrade, there's no trade-off that makes it anything but a flat upgrade from a T2 web. This. If you say started at 5km with a standard 60% reduction and worked down to like 5% @ 16km it might make more sense but would probably still be a terrible idea for those very sensible reasons stated ^^ OP can't even see that the module he proposed is in every way better than a normal web.
I don't even.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Sir Dragon
Einherjar Yggdrasils
29
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Posted - 2013.09.16 08:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
What about taking 5% speed reduction after the current max range (10km), and we drag that 5% outwards to an 100km range : 10 km to 20 km is 5% to 4% ; 20 km to 30 km is 4% to 3% ; 30 km to 50 km is 3% to 2% ; 50 km to 70 km is 2% to 1% ; 70 km to 100km is 1% to 0% (module shuts down)
This is called "as the limit reaches the inifinite" after i cahinsawed the 2 page description text. Pantera Home Videos:http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/ck2ykdBrDRM/Pantera-Vulgar-Video-Full-Completo.html-á ;http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/xpma3u7OjfU/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD1.html ;http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/yyO9rAx8eoQ/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD2.html . |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
131
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Posted - 2013.09.16 09:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hyena all V with Faction Sansha Webifier and Skirmish Booster does have a 44.5km range without Overheating! (With Heat 56km) [29.7km/37.4km with T2 Web]
I think thats enough for the most situations. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
505
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Posted - 2013.09.16 11:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
interesting concept but rather than adding even more range to something that is already bordering OP with range especially when combined with links and Recons.. 60% strength is also too powerful ..
how about switch its current optimal to falloff but no 2x falloff like guns allowed...
1km optimal - 9km falloff Also reduce strength down to 50% max on T2 webs
1km 50% 3km 45% 5km 35% 7km 30% 9km 25% Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Matthias Thullmann
Dynatron Inc. The Volition Cult
11
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Posted - 2013.09.16 12:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Ix Method wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Plus, among the other problems this offers no significant trade-offs over a T2 web, it's just a flat upgrade, there's no trade-off that makes it anything but a flat upgrade from a T2 web. This. the module he proposed is in every way better than a normal web.
Um so? There is no tradeoff with bubbles either, or with scripted generators, or with any number of faction webs/scrams/disruptors. They're a flat upgrade and can be fitted on any ship.
This module is just for tackling ships. Ships that most times don't even bother fitting webs, especially interceptors, either because they can't reach their target in time to activate one or because they're dead in web range. So I don't see why you're worried about a "flat upgrade" if they aren't even using webs.
First three comments didn't even read the post, I don't even.
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Hyena all V with Faction Sansha Webifier and Skirmish Booster True but this situation is incredibly specific, with a specific ship and faction web.
I'm trying to bring something of that flavor, at a reduced ability/range, to the other races tackling ships. Hyena will still outdo them, but at least the other ships will find it worthwhile to fit a web, even if only as a defensive measure. |
Oswaldos
Sine Nobilitatis
3
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Posted - 2013.09.16 15:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't think we need another type of web heck i question if webs are too powerful and if maybe we should reduce the speed modifier to 35% on webs instead of 60% for t2 web. My logic is that speed is a factor in the tracking formula reduce the speed enough of a ship and even dreadnaughts and titans can hit an interceptor. I think if you reduced web strength it would make a more diverse fleets as battleships would need the support of frigates to take care of the frigates of the opposing fleet. As it stands now frigates are just webbed and then blapped by the BS (or neuted but that's another thread entirely)
My 2 Cents |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Forsak3n.
339
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Posted - 2013.09.16 15:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Falloff for webs (and that is roughly what OP is suggesting) is an interesting idea. But current range bonused ships would need a severe nerf to make this not OP as hell.
Are webs stacking penalized? I always thought they were.
In fleets where you can have several if not dozens of webs on you, even having falloff reduced webs could easily make a huge difference in applied dps. Free Ripley Weaver! |
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Matthias Thullmann
Dynatron Inc. The Volition Cult
11
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Posted - 2013.09.16 15:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:But current range bonused ships would need a severe nerf to make this not OP as hell. I was thinking hull bonuses to normal webs don't affect this one, and it can't be overheated. So only fleet bonuses might affect it, and I'm not set on that either. It's as different a module from webs as bubbles are from warp disruptors.
Consider an interceptor going at 4000m/s, some can disrupt at 30km. And even if they kite is he really going to feel a 30% speed loss at 15km? This web can be easily escaped because the farther you go out, the faster you get.
It's really only a benefit in certain situations on certain ships vs certain other ships. Far more limited than normal webs or factions. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1219
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Posted - 2013.09.16 15:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:interesting concept but rather than adding even more range to something that is already bordering OP with range especially when combined with links and Recons.. 60% strength is also too powerful ...
If that was true then players wouldn't fit more than one and desperately apply both on same ship. Plus web something without scram/disruptor or bble all you do is help him warp off faster.
If something I'd like to see is the 60% web become a 24km one and get a new 90% one, just like scrams have 2points instead of 1 that web would also have only 9km range. This would require some tweaks to Reccons/EAFs/T3s of course to bring them at current max ranges once all bonus factored in.
To make it simple: if you want to play kitting games go beyond 24km, if you get in those 24km and want to play then you have to commit and assume consequences of your choices. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Olaf4862
KnownUnknown
32
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Posted - 2013.09.16 16:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
I can definitively get on board the whole idea of fall off on webs, except for point every other time of ewar mod has some kind of fall off modifier on it.
CCP can always go and readjust all ships with web bonuses after the change. Also they could add in an advanced web skill thingy that could increase its range of how far it could web.
Of course after fall off the mod would not do anything but it could still be targeted to the ship in question with no effect. This way a pilot who is not paying attention would be wasting cap on a mod that's not having any effect, but it also allows it to kick in on the start of its next cycle if they are in range and want to "pre-load" there web on the target. (i forget if other ewar only works when there in fall off or if you can put them up at any time)
To make things even better you could say this: Base range on T2 Web instead of 10km would be 5Km with 5km fall off.
Skill thingy improves fall off range by 20% per level. So with lvl 5 skill thingy you would have 5km optimal and 10km fall off on a tech 2 web.
This would effectively nerf webs even more but give them more utility with there range being better. Also this would have the effect of having them behave simular to other ewar mods like painters,tracking disruptors, ECM, and sensor damps.
This kind of change actually makes sense to me at least. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
215
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Posted - 2013.09.17 02:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Harvey James wrote:interesting concept but rather than adding even more range to something that is already bordering OP with range especially when combined with links and Recons.. 60% strength is also too powerful ... If that was true then players wouldn't fit more than one and desperately apply both on same ship. Plus web something without scram/disruptor or bble all you do is help him warp off faster. If something I'd like to see is the 60% web become a 24km one and get a new 90% one, just like scrams have 2points instead of 1 that web would also have only 9km range. This would require some tweaks to Reccons/EAFs/T3s of course to bring them at current max ranges once all bonus factored in. To make it simple: if you want to play kitting games go beyond 24km, if you get in those 24km and want to play then you have to commit and assume consequences of your choices.
I believe he was referring to 60% base for an extended range web with falloff being too powerful compared to current webs.
90% webs were removed from the game for some pretty sound reasons outlined back in this really old dev-blog.
24km 60% webs on every ship would basically mean death to frigates and cruisers since they can no longer point people without getting into web-range. There's a reason most of the ships that have extended webs are hampered in some way for having them, this is precisely because webs are so powerful.
Olaf4862 wrote:I can definitively get on board the whole idea of fall off on webs, except for point every other time of ewar mod has some kind of fall off modifier on it.
CCP can always go and readjust all ships with web bonuses after the change. Also they could add in an advanced web skill thingy that could increase its range of how far it could web.
Of course after fall off the mod would not do anything but it could still be targeted to the ship in question with no effect. This way a pilot who is not paying attention would be wasting cap on a mod that's not having any effect, but it also allows it to kick in on the start of its next cycle if they are in range and want to "pre-load" there web on the target. (i forget if other ewar only works when there in fall off or if you can put them up at any time)
To make things even better you could say this: Base range on T2 Web instead of 10km would be 5Km with 5km fall off.
Skill thingy improves fall off range by 20% per level. So with lvl 5 skill thingy you would have 5km optimal and 10km fall off on a tech 2 web.
This would effectively nerf webs even more but give them more utility with there range being better. Also this would have the effect of having them behave simular to other ewar mods like painters,tracking disruptors, ECM, and sensor damps.
This kind of change actually makes sense to me at least.
Actually points don't have any kind of falloff either, and webs don't because any kind of speed reduction is extremely powerful.
A 30% speed reduction is a pretty big difference and is essentially a 30% boost to your tracking while simultaneously reducing your opponent's speed and making them easier to catch. Current web-range is based largely around scram range and seems specifically designed to allow smaller ships ranges where they can stay out of web range and still be effective. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
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Posted - 2013.09.17 02:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yes lets improve hard tackle ranges now that we've nerfed tracking enhancers and made gazillion-hp drone bricks the meta of the day. |
Janeway84
Masters Of Destiny Pride Before Fall
27
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Posted - 2013.09.17 09:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Hyena all V with Faction Sansha Webifier and Skirmish Booster does have a 44.5km range without Overheating! (With Heat 56km) [29.7km/37.4km with T2 Web]
I think thats enough for the most situations.
Oh and dont get me started on the Rapier... *cough* 90km *cough*
you know the 90 km webs is history since the gang link nerf? |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
136
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Posted - 2013.09.17 09:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Janeway84 wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Hyena all V with Faction Sansha Webifier and Skirmish Booster does have a 44.5km range without Overheating! (With Heat 56km) [29.7km/37.4km with T2 Web]
I think thats enough for the most situations.
Oh and dont get me started on the Rapier... *cough* 90km *cough* you know the 90 km webs is history since the gang link nerf?
True i forgot to update my Tools, but anyway i dont see the Point buffing webs even more because Web and Point with the same range for soloers are simply to mighty. |
Matthias Thullmann
Dynatron Inc. The Volition Cult
11
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Posted - 2013.09.17 12:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
People, people, please, read more than the title before responding. Maybe it's my fault for putting 'extended webs' in the title and expecting people to keep reading. fixd.
1. Can only be fitted to interceptors, interdictors and heavy interdictors. 2. High slot module, it is different from a normal web. 3. Can't overheat this module at all. 4. Hull bonuses to normal webs don't apply, the same way that hull bonuses to scrams/disruptors don't apply to bubble launchers. Because it's a different module. 5. Takes twice the cap to activate compared to a T2 web. 6. It is not buffing normal webs. 7. It is not buffing normal webs.
Cade Windstalker wrote:Current web-range is based largely around scram range And from what range can an interdictor "scram" you?
Lephia DeGrande wrote:buffing webs even more because Web and Point with the same range for soloers are simply to mighty. This is not a normal web module. I'm not suggesting extending the range of normal webs.
Soloers won't be using it unless they're interceptors, interdictors or heavy interdictors, as in ships which already have massive buffs to tackling.
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Lilliana Stelles
897
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Posted - 2013.09.17 12:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Hyena all V with Faction Sansha Webifier and Skirmish Booster does have a 44.5km range without Overheating! (With Heat 56km) [29.7km/37.4km with T2 Web]
I think thats enough for the most situations.
Oh and dont get me started on the Rapier... *cough* 90km *cough*
Hyenas are extremely undervalued. It's an amazing ship in a small gang that you rarely see. Hell, I've had FC's not know what they are. Not a forum alt.-á |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
874
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Posted - 2013.09.17 13:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Janeway84 wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Hyena all V with Faction Sansha Webifier and Skirmish Booster does have a 44.5km range without Overheating! (With Heat 56km) [29.7km/37.4km with T2 Web]
I think thats enough for the most situations.
Oh and dont get me started on the Rapier... *cough* 90km *cough* you know the 90 km webs is history since the gang link nerf?
Very true, they're now 100 km webs. |
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Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
505
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Posted - 2013.09.17 14:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Janeway84 wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Hyena all V with Faction Sansha Webifier and Skirmish Booster does have a 44.5km range without Overheating! (With Heat 56km) [29.7km/37.4km with T2 Web]
I think thats enough for the most situations.
Oh and dont get me started on the Rapier... *cough* 90km *cough* you know the 90 km webs is history since the gang link nerf? Very true, they're now 100 km webs.
well 80km basic with sansha webs but still 104km when OH Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Legion40k
Kabloom Blaby Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
28
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Posted - 2013.09.17 15:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Extended Slower Downer Module.. loving the title a web but with stretchier web! |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
217
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Posted - 2013.09.18 16:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Matthias Thullmann wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Current web-range is based largely around scram range And from what range can an interdictor "scram" you?
You seem to be misunderstanding my point. It's based off of scram range because scrams shut off your Micro-Warp Drive, so from that perspective an Interdictor can scram you at 9km with a T2 module, the same as every other unbonused ship.
Before someone brings up that there are ships with extended point range, yes! There are also ships with extended web-range.
These ships are also very specifically not the same ships that get extended point range, meaning no extended web on the Interceptor, thanks.
In general lets *not* try and make a god-tackle ship please. |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
270
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Posted - 2013.09.18 16:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Janeway84 wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Hyena all V with Faction Sansha Webifier and Skirmish Booster does have a 44.5km range without Overheating! (With Heat 56km) [29.7km/37.4km with T2 Web]
I think thats enough for the most situations.
Oh and dont get me started on the Rapier... *cough* 90km *cough* you know the 90 km webs is history since the gang link nerf? Very true, they're now 100 km webs. well 80km basic with sansha webs but still 104km when OH
let me tell about my gotan web rapier STANDING ON THE VERGE OF PROLAPSE |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2391
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Posted - 2013.09.19 01:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hi,
We'd appreciate it if you post constructively, thanks!
ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Alundil
The Unnamed.
302
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Posted - 2013.09.19 04:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:They're a flat upgrade too, and factions can be fitted on any ship.
Lies !!!
Can't be fitted on freighters........
But seriously I only clicked thread because of the whimsical nature of the proposed name.
:-) Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
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