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Pharuan
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Posted - 2003.08.22 23:40:00 -
[1]
What is a good smartbomb loadout on any gallente cruiser that will alow you to constantly have four smartbombs (of any size but micro and every type) active and blowing things up all the time?
You probably have to have some small bombs and cap rechargers. And the skill that reduces cap for the Bombs.
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Tha Thalia
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Posted - 2003.08.23 01:15:00 -
[2]
the gallenteships re only good for mining. dont try to fight with those crap. 
if u look on the stats u will see that all gallenteships re mainly on the last place from all 4 races when u ve toasted the drones with some smarties.
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xeno calligan
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Posted - 2003.08.23 02:41:00 -
[3]
Edited by: xeno calligan on 23/08/2003 02:48:36
I have done some experiments with my thorax. Obviously you need a high cap recharge rate. I used 2 med smartbombs (equivalent to 4 small wrt. cap drain), med cap battery (+260 cap or so), 5 cap power relays (+20% cap recharge, -25% shield rechrge). This will give you a cap recharge that will make you laugh your head off, but you'll stop as soon as you fire up those smartbombs.
Clearly the cap power relays will make your shield recharge FUBAR, so if you want to actually put the smartbombs to use, you need defences. I was able to run 1 70% hardener and a small shield booster at the same time as the smartbombs. This made the cap stablilize at about 35%.
Be warned, that auto-repeat currently seems bugged: any autorepeating module (booster, hardener and smartbombs verified) will deactivate after around 1000-1050 activations (which is 27mins for the shield booster with a 1.6sec cycle and 2hrs 45min for the hardener!), eventually leading to the dreaded shield-down failure mode.
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Pharuan
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Posted - 2003.08.23 04:43:00 -
[4]
Thanks Xeno, Good to see a Caldari who can give some strait answers. Unlike Tha, who only critisizes my peoples ship design.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2003.08.23 05:19:00 -
[5]
I was gonna say pretty much the same thing, but Xeno covered it first
fit as many medium smartbombs in your high slots as you can, put a shield booster and 2 medium cap batteries, then 5 cap power relays and you're gonna be a real smartbomb *****! 
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Tha Thalia
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Posted - 2003.08.23 09:00:00 -
[6]
u can teach every ship todo anything with the right fitting. the only question that is left....is it very useful to teach a ship some strange fittings. fitting a thorax on massive rechargerate is possible, sure. but be honest, at what price re u able to do this strange fitting.
u loose ur shield rechargerate and ur ability to fit some tracking, RoF, damage or targetting boosters. u loose ur ability to fit some armour plates that re badly needed because of shield recharge lacking.
in a pvp u will loose very fast because of lack in all important terms ( boosters ) but u ve a nice cap rechargerate that teachs ur ship todo something that is not very normal.
the lowslot fitting is the most important difference in any battle.
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Daan
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Posted - 2003.08.23 09:26:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
the lowslot fitting is the most important difference in any battle.
sure, thats why a scorp is the uber pvp ship, cos it has 4 lowslots..
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xeno calligan
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Posted - 2003.08.23 10:10:00 -
[8]
@Tha Thalia
If you look at the cap recharge of the cruisers you will find that they are virtually identical. No you don't get an inherrent bonus to cap recharge as Amarr. What you do get is an extra low slot with the Maller which can give you 20% faster cap recharge, but you pay the same price as with any other high-end ship for having a "strange fitting".
No matter which ship you settle for, the shield recharge rate will be FUBAR and I can't see why adding armor would help with survivability. Armor takes ages to regenerate, shields don't if you use a shield booster.
As you point out this is obviously not made as a pvp build, but who said it was? Pvp is usually won by having the right modules in the *** slots. [replacing *** with the correct term is left as an exercise to the reader, hint: prev. post]
It's amazing just how many Gallente ships I see out here in deep 0.0 space, but I'm sure they, like me, fail to realize just why Gallente ships are "mainly on the last place from all 4 races".
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Tha Thalia
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Posted - 2003.08.23 11:43:00 -
[9]
"No you don't get an inherrent bonus to cap recharge as Amarr."
thats right. if u look onto a maller u will see that u get a 5% cap use bonus to med laser turrents. this bonus expandes with the skillbonus itself. that everybody has the right skilling for his ship is basicrule i think. as amarr u can easy get with the skill and the shipbonus to a 40% lower cap use rate - with maximumskilling to 50%. if this is no advantage instead of the normal 20-25% cap use .... hmm. lower cap use means lower need of cap recharge if u would agree. lower need of cap recharge means that u can use ur mainweapons more often and activate things like smartbombs easier.
if u look onto some other terms too the disadvantage in fitting a thorax and need to use all lowslots re bad again.
the maller with 5 turrentslots has 170 powergrid per turrent. cap per turrent is 240
the thorax with 5 turrentslots has 135 powergrid per turrent. cap per turrent is 220
(yeah, minus the use of the medslotpowergrid and cap. both ve 3 medslots so we can say both use the same medfitting)
this re all the basicterms that get increased by ur skillingoutfit. a thorax can never beat a maller in any energyquestions (without any boosters on bost), thats a fact. the benefits on every energy term per skilllevel is higher on the maller. maybe maller is the only cruiser to fit a large weapon, but for what price ? its with a large weapon a useless cruiser.
fitting any ship outside the shipbonus a mistake, but that was not the point here. the point here was that u get as amarr more advantage in any energyterm.
using the shieldbooster to renew the shield is nice too, but this only works if u ve a good energymanagement. in longer fights (and using no boosters means getting into longer fights) u run out of cap, thats a basic rule. running out of cap means very often moving into close combat when u fight NPC and get more damage.
as last point the scorpion is the best pvp ship ..... maybe the best ship for gatecamper that can jam and scramble u very fast when u leave warpspace near them. i dont really think any scorpion would really stay very long any armageddon with their 4 tachyon beams over a distance of 35-40 km. i could never test it because all scorpionpirats i met left the system after the first blast that kills their shields.
medslots re important, thats right, but the nice difference between the medslots and the lowslots re the activationrules. for a fighter re the lowslots re more important than the medslots. he needs power for his weapons, cap recharge, damage, tracking, RoF. no medslot will help him to make more damage. for an ECM fighter re the medslots important. he needs to jam other ships to alive and kill them. his capability of jamming is his ticket for success, if he fail he can only run or die. lowslots re permanent active, medslots need to be activated and many ECM stuff has rangepenalty. pvp scorpion vs armageddon is 13 radarjamming minimum needed. if the armageddon has a radarbooster u need minimum 16 points to jam.
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Tha Thalia
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Posted - 2003.08.23 11:58:00 -
[10]
@xeno calligan
using any cap recharge booster means loosing one slot for a damagemodifier with x% + the surigal strike bonus per skill.
this is one of the reasons i try to avoid using more than one cap recharger in ANY fitting of ANY race ships.
for the point that many use gallente ships,,,thats fine for me and i ve done it a long time too. they ve good ships and with their drones they re really a strong enemy. drones re their big advantage and powergrid their big disadvantage, that makes them ballanced.
the question here was about smartbombfitting and ur fitting for smartbombs was a strange fitting by giving up all advantages of lowslots. ur thoraxfitting costs u easyly more than 33% extradamage and lacks in giving ur turrents more extratracking for more hits. i dont think that any strange fitting is that worth,,,to teach a ship todo something that is on normal ways not possible. a ballanced fitting is more powerful.
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Tha Thalia
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Posted - 2003.08.23 12:33:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Quote:
the lowslot fitting is the most important difference in any battle.
sure, thats why a scorp is the uber pvp ship, cos it has 4 lowslots..
in a range for jamming and scrambling,,,sure. gatecampingposition .............
whats with real battleconditions between battleships over 20 km and higher ? hmmmmm
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xeno calligan
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Posted - 2003.08.23 12:50:00 -
[12]
Edited by: xeno calligan on 23/08/2003 13:03:52
@ Tha Thalia
Yes, I can see where you're coming from. The problem is that we are talking about two different things here. You are discussing general loadouts and ship ballancing, and to a large extent I agree with your views.
But in this thread is about dedicated smartbomb ship loadouts. Using 4 small smartbombs on a cruiser means that you have to optimize everything to get an insane cap recharge. Getting good mods for turrets is not a concern since you have no turrets and thus you don't benefit from the amarr cruiser ship bonus. Is this a "ballanced" all-purpose loadout? No. Is it pvp viable? No. It's a highly specialized loadout with quite specific applications.
Smartbombs for all their disadvantages have a number of advantages over ordinary weapons:
- Doesn't require a target lock
- Damages multiple targets
- Has auto-repeat
OT: As for the med slots in 1on1 pvp, if the scorp pilot is unable to utilize the med slots properly, then it doesn't matter which damage mods he has -- scorps will loose a pure slug fest. If he locks you down, dmgs mods still don't matter; As long as he can keep you pinned, he could use civilian gatling guns and still win (almost). If he plays a tank driver and mounts 4 em and 4 therm shield hardeners, you'd be gone before he drops your shields anyway.
@ Harauan
Sorry to see your thread hijacked like this. I wish you the best of luck with your smartbombing endavours 
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John Zeppe
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Posted - 2003.08.23 23:25:00 -
[13]
"+ the surigal strike bonus"
That bug was fixed LONG ago. 
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Pharuan
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Posted - 2003.08.24 01:19:00 -
[14]
I think on thing may have been overlooked. For you to use smartbombs you need to be in 4000 meters of your target. That could pose a problem for a slow cruiser fighting those pesky npc pirates that fly away twice as fast as you. You can hardly get within range. 4km is for a med and 2km for small so you would have to be even faster.
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xeno calligan
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Posted - 2003.08.24 01:44:00 -
[15]
It is indeed a problem if you have to chase the NPCs, especially since you often only can damage one NPC during the chase, so you cut your damage potential to a fraction. The easiest would be to pick your fights by seeking out NPCs that will come to you (e.g. Gurristas Terrorists). You can even sit there and watch them being fried.
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Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.08.26 11:24:00 -
[16]
Sounds like the idea behind this loadout is to make a "bug-zapper" ship that can eat NPC pirate frigates in large numbers. If you can get the cap to stabilize with all the smartbombs and a shield booster running, you could sit in a swarm of those pesky little pirates that like to fly up and zap you at point blank range. If it's an infinite spawn, you could sit there and read a book or surf the net as you collect 2k bounties one after the other...
As for the layout, I'd use a Maller because it has the highest cap and most low slots. If you MUST use a Gallente ship, go with a Thorax and equip 4 small SBs, 5 cap power relays, a shield booster, and possibly a couple of mid-slot cap boosters. You might even get 5 small SBs to work (haven't done the math to check)...
Just please don't try this AFK... you're using a TON of cap and if a cap bug or autorepeat bug hits you'll lose your cruiser to a bunch of low-end frigate pirates. Not a very glorious way to go out... 
PS... watch out for noobs and griefers. All some idiot has to do is fly past you and get singed by a SB and Concord will come calling.
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Stonyvision
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Posted - 2003.08.26 17:28:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Quote:
the lowslot fitting is the most important difference in any battle.
sure, thats why a scorp is the uber pvp ship, cos it has 4 lowslots..
The scorpion might be a nice ship for solo PvP but isn't the best PvP ship for sure.
The scorpion combined with an armageddon/apoc/megathron is a killer.
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Pharuan
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Posted - 2003.08.27 01:54:00 -
[18]
Who Said anything about using a scorpion? Or any other battleship for that matter? I said Gallente Cruiser. You are leading my questions astray.
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.08.27 03:33:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
the lowslot fitting is the most important difference in any battle.
sure, thats why a scorp is the uber pvp ship, cos it has 4 lowslots..
The scorpion might be a nice ship for solo PvP but isn't the best PvP ship for sure.
The scorpion combined with an armageddon/apoc/megathron is a killer.
scorpion IS the best pvp ship.
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Pharuan
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Posted - 2003.08.27 04:39:00 -
[20]
Thank You all for all this lovely information about the Scorpion that I don't really care for. Please Let my Post get back on track.
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