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Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
40
   |
Posted - 2013.09.17 10:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
After bankrupting myself I'm trying to make money via market trading however I've hit a problem
I've set up some sell orders for ammo but the competitive prices that they charge at the local trade up means there is very little profit to selling even a 100000 small antimatter ammo. I've tried setting up buy orders for items with larger margins but they take so long for stuff to come in that I won't have much to sell at the end of the day.
Faction ammo also seems to be very hard to get rid off if its not anti-matter.
I had stuck upon the idea of shipping laser from amarr to gallente space but after checking I find no-one buys them much in gallente space so thats ideas stuffed.
So what am I doing wrong? |
AKilla Sunday
The Padwan Conglomerate Venture
21
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 11:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
look into manufacturing. Look into suplying FW hubs - contact me ingame and I'll give you the perfect system/station. |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
412
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 12:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ammo is always a bit sketchy to do, it drops in missions, and is cheap and easy to produce by the ton.
One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
40
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 12:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:Ammo is always a bit sketchy to do, it drops in missions, and is cheap and easy to produce by the ton.
One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location
I'm actually in Dodixie |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
412
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 12:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Then that is more than possible to do :) |
Rengerel en Distel
1918
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 12:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Rhivre wrote:Ammo is always a bit sketchy to do, it drops in missions, and is cheap and easy to produce by the ton.
One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location I'm actually in Dodixie
2000 people in jita, 200 in dodixie. i wonder why it takes stuff longer to move ...
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
|
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
40
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 12:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:Rhivre wrote:Ammo is always a bit sketchy to do, it drops in missions, and is cheap and easy to produce by the ton.
One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location I'm actually in Dodixie 2000 people in jita, 200 in dodixie. i wonder why it takes stuff longer to move ...
yes but they still keep undercutting me |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4334
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 13:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:Rhivre wrote:Ammo is always a bit sketchy to do, it drops in missions, and is cheap and easy to produce by the ton.
One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location I'm actually in Dodixie 2000 people in jita, 200 in dodixie. i wonder why it takes stuff longer to move ... yes but they still keep undercutting me
A precious suggestion: trade better, not harder.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Uila Tsi
Cobalt Academy
Catastrophic Uprising
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 14:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
There are many reasons you could be having this problem. The biggest one I can think of is how much research have you done? You just posted in the new players thread about buying a faction ammo that doesn't sell and wondering why its not selling.Did you do the research to figure out what are good items to buy and sell? The market in eve is a good place to make money but it can take a lot of effort to figure out effective trading styles.
Another area of possible concern would be
How are your skills? Do you have good market related skills? Some people trade very high volumes for low returns to make decent money. How many order slots do you have? I personally do not have mine maxed but I have heard of people using all 305? on multiple characters to trade. |
Logical Chaos
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
48
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 14:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
I know you. You were that guy saying rockets were terrible based on your own opinion flying crappy meta level fits and argumented about Rockets needing a buff for like 2 months before actually training them to T2 and starting to own with them.
That being said I am not entirely sure if "Market PvP" is for you.
Anyway since you kept it civil so far I will actually read through this thread and throw you a bone. But please refer from making this a similar threadnaught like the Rocket thingie.
EDIT: Okay I have read through it.
You have the following problem:
Again yor skills are probably not up to par compared to your competition. You do not have the trade skills trained that are required to cut your expenses by as much as possible. These are:
Accounting & Broker Relations. These skills reduce the transaction tax when selling an item as well as the broker fees. You should start working towards these skills if you want to be serious on the market.
That being said you need to do your own research on items: You are looking for items that are not worth too much individually but have a nice margin between buy & sell preferrably with not a lot of competition by others. These exist but are hard to find. |
Rykker Bow
118
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 14:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:
So what am I doing wrong?
Move on to other areas of the market, there are many items available to trade.
If ammo, or any other item for that matter, is causing you to lose money you should look for different items to trade. In your position I would not try to adapt to the market dynamic given your skill level but rather search out items that work well with your current trading style. This strategy can be changed when you gather more experience, skills and capital and will enable you to have the power to have the market adapt to you.
gl
|
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
414
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 17:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Getting buy orders filled in Dixie can be a PITA, hence people often move things from Jita.
Certain items have buy orders fill slowly, others never get sold to buys (look at the history table to check if anything actually goes to buys), whereas some items have a decent amount coming in.
Do a bit of research using the price history table, look for items with a decent volume, and I always go for minimum 10% on high volume items cos I am lazy :p
taking a look at say, Antimatter M in Dixie:
Antimatter M
These are mostly going to sell orders.which means you would have to wait a while for new stuff to come in.
Taking Antimatter S
Antimatter S
Very very very small profit.
Antimatter S History
Very rarely going to buy orders (check the low price, and average) |
Tsufuri Ormand
NE Procurement
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 22:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Im no authority, but I can fund 2 accounts from trading and still maintain a growth of my wallet (slow but still). Dont do station trading because its time consuming. Do some research on regional trading. You can buy 5 items for 400k in Jita, sell it for 2,5mil in another hub. You have just made 10mil profit on 1 kind of item. Find more such items and enjoy ISKies |
Zappity
Kurved Space
434
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 02:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tsufuri Ormand wrote:Im no authority, but I can fund 2 accounts from trading and still maintain a growth of my wallet (slow but still). Dont do station trading because its time consuming. Do some research on regional trading. You can buy 5 items for 400k in Jita, sell it for 2,5mil in another hub. You have just made 10mil profit on 1 kind of item. Find more such items and enjoy ISKies
This. At least when you are starting out.
I made my first 10B region trading faction ammo between Jita, Amarr and Dodixie. The hard part is identifying which items to buy and where/when to sell them.
If you can't figure it out after this then I strongly recommend you don't bother. People are not going to hold your hand on this topic for obvious reasons.
1. You want a spreadsheet or database with a typeID and typeName list
2. Google docs importxml
3. eve-central or evemarketdata API
Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Eve Mogul
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 03:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location
Tsufuri Ormand wrote:Dont do station trading because its time consuming. Do some research on regional trading. You can buy 5 items for 400k in Jita, sell it for 2,5mil in another hub. You have just made 10mil profit on 1 kind of item. Find more such items and enjoy ISKies
Both Rhivre and Tsufuri are spot on - start thinking about how you can buy items cheaply (which realistically means buying out of Jita more often than not) and taking them somewhere that you know has demand for those particular items. Think about what else you've done in Eve when you weren't in a major hub and what items you needed at the time - someone has to supply them...
As for skills, there's good info in this thread if you're station trading (ughh, stab me...) but I've found that the biggest money is in inter-regional trading and HUGE sums of isk are made possible by training "Tycoon", and the higher you train it, the more isk you'll make. IMHO, in terms of making isk via any method, every other skill in the game is secondary to Tycoon and it's prerequisits. The more market order slots you can utilise via training up to Tycoon, the more profit you'll receive.
www.evemogul.info -á- -áUse the market. -áStart winning... |
Tuggboat
Oneida Inc.
21
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 04:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quit playing with meta 0 |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
40
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 07:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Logical Chaos wrote:
Again yor skills are probably not up to par compared to your competition. You do not have the trade skills trained that are required to cut your expenses by as much as possible. These are:
Accounting & Broker Relations. These skills reduce the transaction tax when selling an item as well as the broker fees. You should start working towards these skills if you want to be serious on the market.
That being said you need to do your own research on items: You are looking for items that are not worth too much individually but have a nice margin between buy & sell preferrably with not a lot of competition by others. These exist but are hard to find.
my skills are at trade 2 and contracting 1. so yeah.
Tuggboat wrote:Quit playing with meta 0
why, you would think that there would be high demand for basic moduals |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
416
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 10:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
When placing buy orders for meta 0, make sure producers would want to sell to you.
Much of meta 0 has slim to 0 build margins (Thanks to minerals I mine are free people)
Meta 0 is also not very much used, apart from for modules which have a high requirement for T2 variant, or no meta 1-4 variant.
Get your Accounting and Broker relations up to at least 4. Margin trading is handy for placing your buy orders. The other relevant skills for station trading are the ones which increase the number of orders you can have.
Whenever I start a new char, I suffer from the "OMG Need moar orders" initially, and then as the ISK increases, I reduce the number I use, but, when starting out, you can never have enough orders going. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Oppan Ganknam Style
824
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 11:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
As someone that trades tech 2 ammunition in Dodixie a little, I must say it can be a wild wild ride.
I've bought large amounts of ammo at market lowpoints and tried to relist it later, only to see the market fall yet lower. Likewise other times I've sold at 20% higher than average, only to see the same ammunition trading at 45% above average hours later.
I keep doing it for some reason, but it's not where my ISK comes from.
Miner euthanization expert. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
416
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 11:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
T2 ammo in dixie can indeed be a crazy ride :)
It depends on shipping in from Jita, and weekend producers coming off the long ammo-building cycles make the prices fall (and rise) very rapidly |
Logical Chaos
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
53
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 11:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Tuggboat wrote:Quit playing with meta 0 why, you would think that there would be high demand for basic moduals
Unlike you in your rocket thread pretty much everyone rushes to T2 pretty fast. If not T2 then they go for Meta 4 or 3. Meta 0 (Tech 1) is basically only used in the following scenarios:
- No T2 exists. This was true a long time for Gank links and Capital Mods such as Triage and Siege
- To produce T2 items
- To compress Minerals (425mm Railgun I comes to mind)
So where do you want to go:
Meta 1-4 items (focus on 3-4)
T1 where no T2 exists
Ammo as you pointed out can be shipped from Jita for a competetive price (You can use Red Frog Freight if you have to move larger quantities. DO NOT PUT EVERYTHING YOU OWN INTO ONE T1 INDUSTRIAL EVER!!!) |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1473
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 15:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Logical Chaos wrote:DO NOT PUT EVERYTHING YOU OWN INTO ONE PLACE EVER!!!)
fixed that for you
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
jay thenoob
Space-Mail Express
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 12:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
[/quote] Ammo as you pointed out can be shipped from Jita for a competetive price (You can use Space-Mail Express if you have to move larger quantities. DO NOT PUT EVERYTHING YOU OWN INTO ONE FROG EVER!!!)[/quote]
fixed your fix. region trading comes with its own risks tho like orders being filled during transit or the pressure of being ganked with said profit in your hold nothing in eve is safe |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
418
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 12:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Region trade does not mean you move stuff to fill a buy order necessarily.
That is indeed one way to do it.
Other ways are:
Place region wide buys, ship to hub for resale
Place buys in Mission stations for loot, reship
Place buy in trade hub, ship to Indy hub for resell or Mission hub for resell
And then, the ultimate lazy:
Resell where you get the items, never undock, never move dangerous amounts of cargo |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1480
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 14:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
rhivre have you ever thought about a new haircut? the current one looks like a dead squirrel.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
418
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 15:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
I like squirrels. Do you have a problem with Squirrels Mr Plain? |
Vordek Rei
Nexus Incorporated
IT Infotech
5
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 15:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Buy what can't be replenished by players.
e.g. I bought 1000 units of each of the Genolution implants @ 15~17 million when they came out.
Today they are worth around 25~29 million pr unit. Giving me a profit of 12 billion. Sure it has taken me around 4~5 months, but its still a nice profit. I expect the price to reach 35~40 million before the end of the year, especially with the new Genolution implants introduced.
In short if you have the ISK its a safe bet to make you some profit.
Warning - if CCP gives Genolution as chrismas gifts this year too, expect price to drop again.
You might wounder why I want to give you this information and its quite simple, if you start investing in this, the price goes up faster. Assuming that you will not crash the market, aka selling to much too fast.
Also I've made my fair bit of profit of this, and don't mind sharing. |
Fereval Kondur
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
10
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 23:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
True, but one must anyway be really sure of the product, I remember buying Gnosis for 150 millions now they pretty much costs 50-60 ...
I must clearly have underestimate the collector's BPO... |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
154
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 10:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:[quote=Rengerel en Distel][quote=Paul Otichoda][quote=Rhivre]
yes but they still keep undercutting me
If undercutting was the path to victory in trading then every item on the market would be 0.01 isk. The people who undercut you will eventually have their stuff sell and then yours will sell after.
Some of the people undercutting you are trying to trick you into selling your stuff too cheaply.
Some stuff doesn't sell because you didn't research it enough. |
Jake Devlin
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 18:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Do a bit more research. There are a bunch of lectures you can listen to available on the Eve-Uni website. This includes such valuable information as the 'burger' method of identifying good products to buy/sell which makes the data you can get on the eve market understandable at a glance to people (such as myself) who aren't that great at economics. This in turn means you can make a profit.
One of the things to remember is that trading isn't quick isk as such but isk that you can make without even being online. |
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