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New chars want to make bounty-hunting corp. Bad move?

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JohnMcKnight	Posted - 2006.01.13 23:03:00 - [1] I played EVE once a while ago, mostly just mined and ran agent missions, nothing too serious. This time around I want to get into some PvP and I've been reading up alot through the forums on the subject. Anywho, a few of my freinds are also playing this time around and we want to form a sort of bounty-hunting corp. Basically we'll go into low sec space with 4 or more ships (My PT Ferox, a tackler Moa, and a couple of frigs) and wait around for some nice juicy high-bounty pirate to fly by, web and scramble him and shoot him until he's dead in order to get the in game bounty. (As for ransom, the idea for the moment is to not, so as to go along with the role of bounty hunters and not become pirates ourselves) Is this a terrible idea? Will this get us into all sorts of trouble that we probably can't get ourselves out of? Are we, as players with 2-3 weeks of experience (I have a few months of experience under my belt previously but liek i said that was casual play) even likely to be able to pull something like this off in the first place? As a side note, we are doing this as a semi-role-playing move. In general, we all play "good guy" characters in games and we all have a distinct distate for the pirates in EVE =P So roleplaying as bounty hunters seems like the right move for us. As long as we aren't getting in way over our heads. Let me know what you think, oh wise ones =P
Kahleena	Posted - 2006.01.13 23:15:00 - [2] Go for it! Sounds like fun. Just watch out, those pirates can be pretty wily sometimes. :)
Hughy	Posted - 2006.01.13 23:21:00 - [3] The Great thing about eve is that anything is possible. Follow your heart and i know its not long before the dark side will Consume you! Yarr! Conquering space in various games since 1998 Chicks dig an intergalactic Tyrant!
dalman	Posted - 2006.01.13 23:43:00 - [4] Yes, it is a terrible idea, if you intend to somehow make a living on it. Because the bounty system isn't any good at all. First off, players with bountys worth anything has much more combat experience than you, so you'll find it hard to kill anyone worth it. For 99% of your kills the loot you get is worth much more than the bounty. Second, you'll find that alot of players with bounties are not below -5.0 sec rating which means the sentry guns will protect him. Third, you need to get the pod too, not just the ship, which is usually hard when you're not a big frigate squad. Experienced that frustration myself when I for example took on Ryan Routine(when in TunDraGon) in a 1vs1 BS fight. I'm sure the ones who put the bounty on him was very happy about that, but take one freckn guess if I managed to get the pod too to get his 200M+ bounty That's just a few examples. If you're just doing it for fun... then you'll probably have fun and gain PvP experience fast. But you're gonna lose alot of ships=isk on it for some time so be prepared to spend quite some time in the roid fields/agent offices. Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin. Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
Isith	Posted - 2006.01.13 23:55:00 - [5] Quote: Second, you'll find that alot of players with bounties are not below -5.0 sec rating which means the sentry guns will protect him Considering you also ahve to pod someone to get the bounty this will also make you get low security status. So you cant kill that many ppl with higher sec status then -5 before beeing an outlaw yourself. It sounds like alot of fun though. -Toast
Teafortwo	Posted - 2006.01.14 00:05:00 - [6] Anti-pirating with success is going to need a well blanced squad to take down experenced pirates. You will need damage dealing ships and a inty tackler plus a covert ops to get near gate gankers and scan them in their safe spots. In the mean time perhaps setting pirate traps like osprey mining ops or working out something with mining corps. You will probably be better off not creating your own corp but staying in noob corps so you dont tip of the pirates as you enter local.
Misha Mosqito	Posted - 2006.01.14 00:30:00 - [7] My corp were former antipirates. Loads of fun, but hard to pull off. Give it a try though! You'll get good pvp experience from it -=Right=-
Dursigil	Posted - 2006.01.14 01:12:00 - [8] Edited by: Dursigil on 14/01/2006 01:12:26 We would be doing it for fun/roleplaying, as opposed to for money. But you've got a good point that we would end up losing alot of money from lost ships that we may not be able to make up in bounty gains. I'm aware that the guns will protect >-5 (which I personally think is the dumbest thing ever) but thats why I was going to wait in roid fields to jump them. However, I wasn't sure how far down our rating would go by taking them out, since I've never really PvPed purposely before (only in self defense). I had figured that we could counter the negative sec from PvPing by PvEing. No dice? I also agree that the bounty system is kinda effed. Personally I think a players bounty should be based on a percent of the cost to state (similar to the way known criminals IRL are given a "wanted" status based on their CTS) which would be calculated as the amount of payout to players who were killed by pirates from insurance. I realize that this would'nt really represent a true CTS since insurance brokers in EVE are technically completely independant corporations... but you get the idea =P But now Im just going off on a tangent. My only real concern would be starting sh-- with big nasty corps that will goto war with my little 5 man corp over jumping their pilot. To be honest with you Im not concerned with losing ships. With my 'Rox having 7k+ shields, good resistances and a couple of NOSs rocking down the targets cap and my squadmates webbing and scrambling frankly I dont see how one ship short of a dread can survive. Am I just being way too optimistic? =P PS: DAMNIT I posted as my gfs char AGAIN.
Cvuos	Posted - 2006.01.14 01:27:00 - [9] Originally by: Dursigil We would be doing it for fun/roleplaying, as opposed to for money. But you've got a good point that we would end up losing alot of money from lost ships that we may not be able to make up in bounty gains. Hunting a specific target instead of poor, defenseless miners is indeed great gameplay. When the targets are few and far between, some mission grinding recoups the cost in no time. Originally by: Dursigil I'm aware that the guns will protect >-5 (which I personally think is the dumbest thing ever) How so? You can't be total outlaw for one innocent little gank, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Originally by: Dursigil Personally I think a players bounty should be based on a percent of the cost to state (similar to the way known criminals IRL are given a "wanted" status based on their CTS) which would be calculated as the amount of payout to players who were killed by pirates from insurance. I realize that this would'nt really represent a true CTS since insurance brokers in EVE are technically completely independant corporations... but you get the idea =P So exploitable it makes my head spin. Originally by: Dursigil With my 'Rox having 7k+ shields, good resistances and a couple of NOSs rocking down the targets cap and my squadmates webbing and scrambling frankly I dont see how one ship short of a dread can survive. Heh. I've gone through a fair share of Feroxes (Feroxii?), I can see otherwise. But with a good gang, good intel and good planning, it is certainly excellent bang for the isk.
AngryTex	Posted - 2006.01.14 03:32:00 - [10] My recommendation is for you and your friends to join a PvP corp and get some experience and build your skills up before you partake in this endeavor. Most sucessful pirates have been doing this for a long time and can easily spot traps or take on ill-equipped gang with just one ship. As others mentioned earlier, you have to pod them to get the bounty (I dont believe you take a sec hit for podding a -5 sec status player but I may be wrong) and you need fast lock time to do it. (frigs and/or cruisers with a few sensor boosters) If you do decide to do it, have fun and think of different tactics to lure them to a trap. Most pirates attack solo players in belts who are mining/npcing. You can setup your Ferox to tank and equip with NOS and have all your buddies wait in an adjacent system ready to warp to you. You pretend to mine or NPC while you wait for the pirate to jump you and once that happens, call in your buddies to jump thru the gate and warp to you to set the trap. This is just one example you can use. Good luck.
JohnMcKnight	Posted - 2006.01.14 06:48:00 - [11] "How so? You can't be total outlaw for one innocent little gank, the line has to be drawn somewhere." But you have to do alot of illegal things to get "just" a -2.0 sec... so why not draw the line there? Or at -1.5? or -1.0? Even -1.0 is alot more than "one innocent little gank". There should be a system in place which allows more fluidity in allowing one player to attack another. F.Ex: Lets say a +1.0 player (Player A) sees a -1.0 player (B). Player A should be allowed to open fire on player B for X amount of time before concord intervenes by first sending some light damage at both of them (sending more damage toward the character with the lesser sec rating), and then increasing the damage output as time goes on. This will encourage "good" characters to ward off "bad" characters, but the concord inerference means that players will "pick fights" less in more secure sectors. Now lets say a -1.0 (A) attacks a -2.0 (B). Concord should allow alot more time before interfereing seeing as how both characters involved are more or less "bad guys". In my case, this would mean that as a bounty hunter I would maintain a relatively high sec rating, which would allow me to attack pirates in medium sec systems without having to worry about getting rocked by conc.
Cvuos	Posted - 2006.01.14 07:17:00 - [12] Originally by: JohnMcKnight Player A should be allowed to open fire on player B for X amount of time before concord intervenes by first sending some light damage at both of them (sending more damage toward the character with the lesser sec rating). Ehh...so by aggressing him in "medium sec", Concord would help you? Originally by: JohnMcKnight In my case Key phrasing. In everyone else's case, it would be too complex and to put it mildy - a turn for the worse as far as gameplay dynamics go. There are for instance Minmatar roleplayers who terrorize Ammatar players but would never gank a random miner. There are cases like denying supplies to an enemy corp without active war that result in a sec hit. In both cases (and many more) it isn't really piracy in the classical sense even if it ticks someone off and the opportunity is there to place a bounty. It works just fine the way it is. But you'll find those that have the fattest bounties (check under "missions") also come with a nice negative sec rating. If I were to do active bounty hunting, I'd scout the vicious gate campers. Even if they are above -5, I bet it's not hard to get them to aggro on you. Find out how they operate, research their ship, watch their mates, read their posts, bust their safespots (but don't play the card early), gather up a fat blob and go forth and gank. Smartbombs or tackler frig brimming with sensor boosters secure the pod, return to HQ for tea and medals. The satisfaction will be worth the days of preparation.
JohnMcKnight	Posted - 2006.01.14 08:00:00 - [13] "Ehh...so by aggressing him in "medium sec", Concord would help you?" Yes... if you have a high positive security rating and the other guy has a high negative security rating. I mean think about it. If you see a guy in a business suit in a fist fight with a guy wearing a leather jacket and chains and the cops show up, do you think they are going to handle them equally? Hell no. They're going to go harder on the guy in the chains. Im not saying they would ignore the first guy, but they would definately approach him with greater ease than the second guy. Now think about it this way: In EVE, security ratings are globally accesable instantly. So imagine now that the first guy has some kind of code which the police can instantly see when they arrive on scene that says that the first guy is a well respected public citizen and has in fact helped to resolve numerous cases for the police. Also they can see, upon arriving on the scene, that the second guy has a rapsheet as long as he is tall. Now how do you think they will handle this situation? Now you may say that this is unbalanced. That "good" guys are getting a sweet deal here. Well, you would be wrong. It's simple to be a bad guy. In EVE, just take your ship into med-low sec and start popping miners. Tons of money for you. It's alot harder to be a good guy and actively seek out bad guys (who are likely well versed in combat) and destroy them.
Cvuos	Posted - 2006.01.14 10:52:00 - [14] Originally by: JohnMcKnight Now you may say that this is unbalanced. That "good" guys are getting a sweet deal here. Well, you would be wrong. It's simple to be a bad guy. In EVE, just take your ship into med-low sec and start popping miners. Tons of money for you. It's alot harder to be a good guy and actively seek out bad guys (who are likely well versed in combat) and destroy them. First, Eve isn't black/white. It's the greyest game there is and that's why I love it. Second, Concord isn't a police force for the safety of the citizen. It's there to prevent conflict. (see the difference?) Third, piracy is NOT easy! I've considered going dark side and perhaps I will at some point, but with a low sec rating my gameplay would become too limited. Perhaps when I've played longer and gotten bored. Tons of money popping miners? With the juicy -5 or less in your bio, there will be plenty of people looking for a date, either for revenge or fun. You have to loot a lot of Miner IIs to replace an assault frig. If you change your mind and want to join a manufacturing corp you have a big sec rating grind ahead of you. The "good guys" with +5.0 standings have only been dishing out hurt to Guristas and Angels, perhaps they never left Jita! While this could be argued (though flawed) to be worthy of Concord favouring, it does gameplay no good! To be honest your arguments are very self serving and you should do like all successful Eve players do, learn the game up and down and play from there. When changes come, be the first to take advantage. See some yellow and skulls in your overview at the Rens gate? "Show info", read about the corp, follow him, find his weakness and make a plan. That is excellent gameplay and the game mechanics are more than good enough to make bounty hunting a rewarding endeavor - though not in ISK/time.
Isith	Posted - 2006.01.14 11:06:00 - [15] I agree with the others here. EVE beeing so dynamic in terms of what you can do and not is what makes it great. Quote: It's simple to be a bad guy. In EVE, just take your ship into med-low sec and start popping miners. Tons of money for you As a noob pirate I can say that this isnt as easy as you think. A smart player doesnt bring his mining frig to a low sec without backup, heavy backup. So it requiers a few pirates working together to get them. Just finding any possible target is hard enough. Even if you would find a lone miner the reward for such a target would be very low. You will get his miners and his ore (ore wich you cant even bring back to station). If you are extremely lucky you might see a lone mining barrage. That could yield you some money. But I could aswell win the lottery. -Toast
Mathias Orsen	Posted - 2006.01.14 11:11:00 - [16] You and your posse can come after me if you want. I would greatly appriciate the entertainment. The more gifts to unrap, all the better. That's how I look at it. I would even agree to an arranged combat. I could use a tech 1 cruiser or a good frigate. That way you could all say you got pwned with class instead of gankage... ---"What's in your wallet?"---
Tiidan Soban	Posted - 2006.01.14 11:22:00 - [17] Edited by: Tiidan Soban on 14/01/2006 11:22:53 Originally by: JohnMcKnight "How so? You can't be total outlaw for one innocent little gank, the line has to be drawn somewhere." But you have to do alot of illegal things to get "just" a -2.0 sec... so why not draw the line there? Or at -1.5? or -1.0? Even -1.0 is alot more than "one innocent little gank". There should be a system in place which allows more fluidity in allowing one player to attack another. F.Ex: Lets say a +1.0 player (Player A) sees a -1.0 player (B). Player A should be allowed to open fire on player B for X amount of time before concord intervenes by first sending some light damage at both of them (sending more damage toward the character with the lesser sec rating), and then increasing the damage output as time goes on. This will encourage "good" characters to ward off "bad" characters, but the concord inerference means that players will "pick fights" less in more secure sectors. Now lets say a -1.0 (A) attacks a -2.0 (B). Concord should allow alot more time before interfereing seeing as how both characters involved are more or less "bad guys". In my case, this would mean that as a bounty hunter I would maintain a relatively high sec rating, which would allow me to attack pirates in medium sec systems without having to worry about getting rocked by conc. heres an idea....go find the guy and get killed by him, dont put up a fight. now you have kill rights on him and now you can go kill him anywhere you want. ;) good luck on actually killing them tho...your ganna need it _____________________________________ oOoOoOo FiReWoRkS!!! :D
Izo Azlion	Posted - 2006.01.14 11:28:00 - [18] I say go for it. I do. For example, yesterday in my Ferox, I warped in on an Omen and a Caracal. Lacking a scrammer, I thought "** it." and targetted the Caracal. Seeing as I couldnt ransom without stopping them from escaping, I thought I'd just nuke their ships. (5 heavy missiles ftw.) Long story short, despite the Caracal pilot being a year old, and the Omen pilot being several months old. (And despite the fact I didnt check their background before i opened fire) I took the Caracal to hull, and he *ed off, and the Omen pilot (Stupidly?) stayed an fought. He lost his ship. Now, had I of checked their age, I would probably have not attacked them. Moral of the story... - Age and experiance isnt always everything. Bloody helps though. - Go for it! At the end of the day, you can always regain your losses and make a different approach. Life, even on a game, is a very weird thing. smiles*
BrerLapin	Posted - 2006.01.14 11:28:00 - [19] Cvous - One little gank. In real life one little gank gets you 10 years. Funnily enough your answers are the most self serving (for pirates & the like). A negative security rating means their a threat to concords objectives. A positive rating means their friendly to Concord. Imagine your concord for a moment (WTFPWN) Who would you direct your batteries at. Hmmmm all guns on the dodgy bastard please tahnks chief. There should be a skill that allows people who wish to hunt bounties to get 1 to 5 concord free engagements reagrdless of sec. Or possibley pushes the relative sec status of the attack upwards, meaning 1.0 is always safe. Hmm I like that ;D Bounty I makes .5 like .4 if your bountied. Unfortunately buttmunches would abuse the system claiming bounties in own corp etc etc etc. Originally by: Market Scanner Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
Cvuos	Posted - 2006.01.14 12:13:00 - [20] Edited by: Cvuos on 14/01/2006 12:14:49 Originally by: BrerLapin Cvous - One little gank. In real life one little gank gets you 10 years. Funnily enough your answers are the most self serving (for pirates & the like). I'm not a pirate, and Eve isn't real life. Originally by: BrerLapin Imagine your concord for a moment (WTFPWN) Who would you direct your batteries at. The one who initiates aggression and causes a racket without having paid war fee! Originally by: BrerLapin There should be a skill that allows people who wish to hunt bounties to get 1 to 5 concord free engagements reagrdless of sec. Or possibley pushes the relative sec status of the attack upwards, meaning 1.0 is always safe. Now this might be interesting. Anyone can attack a -5. When Concord agents get unlocked, perhaps you could get a free pass on -3 and below for a certain amount of loyalty points? More LP and you get from -2 and down? The important thing is that while there is punishment for swashbuckling, it is gradual and reversible. There isn't a "kill miners for free" function for pirates and there shouldn't be a "kill yellow bar in overview for free" for bounty hunters either. I'm a 0.9 btw.
JohnMcKnight	Posted - 2006.01.14 17:36:00 - [21] sigh This is slowly turning into a flamewar, so Ill just give up on it now. Anywho, thanks to all the people that gave advice on my situation. I think we are going to go for it. If we lose a few ships, so be it. It will be good experience. Chances are we wont be doing it for long though, since it's become obvious to me that the money really just isn't very good =P
Nocturnal Avenger	Posted - 2006.01.14 19:31:00 - [22] Originally by: JohnMcKnight I think we are going to go for it. If we lose a few ships, so be it. It will be good experience. Chances are we wont be doing it for long though, since it's become obvious to me that the money really just isn't very good =P Chances are that you will have an ever increasing negative income from anti-pirating. Beware of the dark side...
Syrec	Posted - 2006.01.15 00:12:00 - [23] I don't think bounty hunting is viable. The largest bounties are put there by the pirates themselves via friends and alts. If a bounty gets high enough to be very interesting, the pirate has a friend pod them and split the ISK. Also destroying isn't enough, You have to pod. This lowers your chance even more of actually gettng the bounty. Any pirate worth their salt will be skilled and geared for PVP. Could prob. 1 volley your frigs and make quick work of your MOA and whatever else you're using.
JohnMcKnight	Posted - 2006.01.15 02:11:00 - [24] Thats why were just going to do a couple here and there for fun. And probably in like .3ish space, so as to avoid you real hardy yo-ho-ers =P All Im really worried about is ****ing the wrong people off.
Siilas Tralidad	Posted - 2006.01.16 05:43:00 - [25] Sounds kind of cool. My friends and I are new to EVE but that is exactly the thing we are interested in. How is is working out so far?

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