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Armor Tanking viable for PvE?

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Frein Venari Clandestine Management Group SiNTaX err0r 0	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:09:00 - [1] - Quote I am having a very hard time finding PvE fits for Armor tanked ships, especially Amarr, It seems like everyone PvEs with shield tank ships. Is armor just not viable in pve? Does anyone do things like complexes, wormholes, or even L4's with armor ships? Would anyone be willing to share some advice on PvE amarr fits? and maybe some good galente ones too?
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1226	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:12:00 - [2] - Quote Frein Venari wrote: I am having a very hard time finding PvE fits for Armor tanked ships, especially Amarr, It seems like everyone PvEs with shield tank ships. Is armor just not viable in pve? Does anyone do things like complexes, wormholes, or even L4's with armor ships? Would anyone be willing to share some advice on PvE amarr fits? and maybe some good galente ones too? They do, actually armor ships have always been good for pve, less than shield ok but that's a matter of opinion, however after latest changes about armor tanking and ships themselves armor tanking in pve became really interesting and dynamic (actually less boring than shields) Like it? go for it !! removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Frein Venari Clandestine Management Group SiNTaX err0r 0	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:14:00 - [3] - Quote Have any fits you would be willing to share? I would really love a good legion fit for wormhole space if you have one.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1226	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:32:00 - [4] - Quote Holly crap you just got me on this one, I've actually not played PVE for ages and been a buffer pvp player for a couple years, non the less some times I use "stuff" to understand new mechanisms or modules. Depends on the ship your goal is set on and type of pve/rats but at the first gist of response, if this is ever one actually meaning something to you for pve you need at least one nanobot accelerator rig + 1rep amount (2 better is ship fittings aloud this) a regular T2 rep or faction, dead space better obviously. Eventually if you feel comfortable with your mission ship a simple AAR does the trick - I can actually make a Navy Mega work as a charm for all lcl4 type with a single AAR and about 60+ average resist type because I prefer gank over tank, that's just me with my skills and mission knowledge but that might lead you to some stupid loss and I would be of no help for you. How are your armor and racial skills? removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
IIshira School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 213	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:49:00 - [5] - Quote I don't have EFT or my computer since I'm on my phone but armor battleship fits are simple. Two of the primary damage hardeners, one of the secondary, and a large armor repairer. The rest of the low slots fit with heatsinks. Fit two of the rigs that increase armor repair amount. Fit a couple tracking computers in the mid slots. I think you can get a stronger active tank from shields but armor tank is plenty strong enough.
Andrea Keuvo Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.09.19 23:31:00 - [6] - Quote The reason people use shields for PvE is fairly simple. You don't need to fit tackle so you put your tank in the mid slots and fill your lows with damage mods. More damage mods = more dps = more isk. You can armor tank for PvE but most of the time it's much less efficient.
That Seems Legit State War Academy Caldari State 137	Posted - 2013.09.20 00:01:00 - [7] - Quote A dirty washtub with garbage can lids strapped to it is viable for pve in eve. Damns - you're ugly - and that's a compliment from me. -Large Collidable Object Seeking donations for facial reconstructive surgery, every little bit helps!
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 681	Posted - 2013.09.20 00:35:00 - [8] - Quote That Seems Legit wrote: A dirty washtub with garbage can lids strapped to it is viable for pve in eve. Now,now, that is no way to talk about the Maelstrom.
Tauranon Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 258	Posted - 2013.09.20 01:23:00 - [9] - Quote Andrea Keuvo wrote: The reason people use shields for PvE is fairly simple. You don't need to fit tackle so you put your tank in the mid slots and fill your lows with damage mods. More damage mods = more dps = more isk. You can armor tank for PvE but most of the time it's much less efficient. There isn't a proper armor tanker in the game anymore that can't fit 4 damage mods, and you need only apply 1 midslot to capacitor (medium electrochemical cap booster with cap 800s will often do) leaving you 3 and 4 midslots (depending on ship) free for applied damage mods. The more you have applied damage mods on the mids, rather than the rigs, the more flexibly you can load out for missions. ie I shoot a 15m tick in serpentis blockade with a plain dominix, because I can bring 3 sebos and not lose my locks, and 1 omni is good enough these days. After 1.1 patched armor reps to all have 15% more rep, - this cheap armor fit, use 1x large rep, 2x hardener IIs, and 2x large aux nano pumps and 1 med electrochemical cap booster. Nothing else on the ship needs to be tank, you have so many mods generally applied to gank that it will cover for that weak tank. A hyperion can often get away with 1 rep + an omni - so 5 damage mods.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 349	Posted - 2013.09.20 03:22:00 - [10] - Quote fit for amarr laser boat pve guns in highs tracking comps, prop mod, cap booster in mids rep, 2-3 hardeners, rest heat sinks for the lows rigs, almost don't even matter. You can trust me, I have a monocole
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 871	Posted - 2013.09.20 03:53:00 - [11] - Quote [Armageddon, Amarr Space] Damage Control II Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener Centus C-Type Large Armor Repairer Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Caldari Navy Stasis Webifier Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Drone Link Augmentor I Large Anti-EM Pump I Large Anti-Thermic Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Garde II x5 And curators. Ran almost the same tank TFI and it was decent also. Eve is Real
Tauranon Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 258	Posted - 2013.09.20 06:29:00 - [12] - Quote I can understand a thermic pump on a ship that is trying to rainbow resists, but not on a PVE battleship. Aux nano is 15% tank, so is the thermic (only half of damage is ever thermal), both are stacking penalised, one by the hardener, one by the other aux nano, but the aux nano will work against any type of damage, so you can take any type of mission. No PVE battleship has any particular need for the initial extra static ehp the therm pump offers against thermic.
The Spod Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2013.09.20 07:21:00 - [13] - Quote Lows = damage or projection Mids = projection Projection includes everything that makes the damage happen faster, like MWD's, sensor boosters, tracking computers, you name it. Projection also includes a tractor beam in high if it makes the next mission damage happen faster. Tank is also damage projection; it makes you warp out less. Fit the optimal ratio of damage and projection to reach highest possible applied damage. Armor pairs well with pve that deals EM-therm damage. It leaves midslots for projection stuff.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 871	Posted - 2013.09.20 07:36:00 - [14] - Quote Tauranon wrote: I can understand a thermic pump on a ship that is trying to rainbow resists, but not on a PVE battleship. Aux nano is 15% tank, so is the thermic (only half of damage is ever thermal), both are stacking penalised, one by the hardener, one by the other aux nano, but the aux nano will work against any type of damage, so you can take any type of mission. No PVE battleship has any particular need for the initial extra static ehp the therm pump offers against thermic. Against one that does not fight Angels it makes great sense. This one does not fight Angels. It can get about 600 tank against any faction besides them by swapping hardeners. It gets more tank than a 2nd Nano pump and more sustained tank than a nano accelerator. If it was Caldari I would throw a rigor on there and buy a better repper but since it has a web and 2 omni's for the gardes it doesn't need one at all. Eve is Real
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 233	Posted - 2013.09.20 09:26:00 - [15] - Quote That Seems Legit wrote: A dirty washtub with garbage can lids strapped to it is viable for pve in eve. mjd helps that alot for some boats. Armour or shield can be real subjective op. When I ran a mach for example....I'd say the answer is both, I actually armour tanked for missions brutal with the em damage. Better resist profile for it. less damage output but gave me a comfortable tank when the em jsut coming in in droves. Thin shield tank with a gaping em hole gets interesting. At least for me it did.
Bertrand Butler Cras es Noster 85	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:05:00 - [16] - Quote [Astarte, Mordu's Bane] Medium Armor Repairer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Tracking Computer II Tracking Computer II Cap Recharger II 10MN Afterburner II 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Tractor Beam II Salvager II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Hybrid Collision Accelerator II Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Armor tanking <3
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1479	Posted - 2013.09.20 11:04:00 - [17] - Quote here is a cookie cutter lvl4 apocalypse. it will easily take any mission against sansha and blood raiders. switch hardeners versus drones and mercenaries. (for harder missions like the blockade, you may have to fit an additional EANM: [Apocalypse] [High Slots] Mega Pulse Laser II - Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II - Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II - Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II - Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II - Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II - Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II - Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II - Scorch L [Med Slots] Tracking Computer II - Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II - Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II - Optimal Range Script Medium Capacitor Booster II - Cap Booster 800 [Low Slots] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II [Rigs] Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Anti-EM Pump I Large Anti-Thermic Pump I [Drones] Hobgoblin II x 5 "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Antillie Sa'Kan Forging Industries Silent Infinity 52	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:03:00 - [18] - Quote If you want to tear through Sansha and Blood Raiders without going for a pirate or faction hull the Abaddon is quite capable: [Abaddon, New Setup 1] Large Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Nanobot Accelerator I Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I Hobgoblin II x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 The Sansha in null seem to have forgotten how to use their tracking disruptors so this works quite well now.
Aivo Dresden Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 18	Posted - 2013.09.21 15:31:00 - [19] - Quote Bertrand Butler wrote: [Astarte, Mordu's Bane] Medium Armor Repairer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Tracking Computer II Tracking Computer II Cap Recharger II 10MN Afterburner II 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Tractor Beam II Salvager II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Hybrid Collision Accelerator II Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Armor tanking <3 I've ran a very similar fit in the past. It definitely worked, I've not tried it since the CS and medium rail changes a few weeks ago though. It definitely worked before. It perhaps wasn't the fastest ship, but it was a lot of fun to play. :)
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 827	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:59:00 - [20] - Quote yes, Armour Tanking is PvE viable Using Serpentis as an example (not an all@5 tank rating) [xyz] is 2 Therm + 1 Kin + 1 ANP = ~400dps Tank [xyz] is 2 Therm + 1 Kin + 2 ANP = ~450dps Tank [Lows] Armour Repairer [xyz] Armour Hardener [xyz] Armour hardener [xyz] Armour Hardener [Rig] Auxiliary Nano Pump Auxiliary Nano Pump (optional)
Xequecal GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 75	Posted - 2013.09.22 07:37:00 - [21] - Quote Andrea Keuvo wrote: The reason people use shields for PvE is fairly simple. You don't need to fit tackle so you put your tank in the mid slots and fill your lows with damage mods. More damage mods = more dps = more isk. You can armor tank for PvE but most of the time it's much less efficient. People use shield tanks in PvE because the Gist line of shield boosters is phenomenally overpowered and has 400% greater cap efficiency than Centus A and X-type repairers. That's pretty much the beginning and end of it. WIth any other kind of shield booster, you need cap mods and you need mid slots for those, just like armor tankers need low slots for damage. Armor tanking would be superior to shield tanking if it wasn't for Gist boosters, this one line of modules is 100% of the reason for why shield tanks are dominant.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 871	Posted - 2013.09.22 09:04:00 - [22] - Quote Xequecal wrote: Andrea Keuvo wrote: The reason people use shields for PvE is fairly simple. You don't need to fit tackle so you put your tank in the mid slots and fill your lows with damage mods. More damage mods = more dps = more isk. You can armor tank for PvE but most of the time it's much less efficient. People use shield tanks in PvE because the Gist line of shield boosters is phenomenally overpowered and has 400% greater cap efficiency than Centus A and X-type repairers. That's pretty much the beginning and end of it. WIth any other kind of shield booster, you need cap mods and you need mid slots for those, just like armor tankers need low slots for damage. Armor tanking would be superior to shield tanking if it wasn't for Gist boosters, this one line of modules is 100% of the reason for why shield tanks are dominant. Eh, not sure you've tried similar armor reppers then. Gist line is nice but you can get similar armor tank numbers for way less money. Its mostly because the damage mods are in the lows TBPH. The armor fit I listed earlier is a good example. Its about halfway in between a Gist B and C but costs less than either. Eve is Real
Xequecal GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 75	Posted - 2013.09.22 09:21:00 - [23] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Eh, not sure you've tried similar armor reppers then. Gist line is nice but you can get similar armor tank numbers for way less money. Its mostly because the damage mods are in the lows TBPH. The armor fit I listed earlier is a good example. Its about halfway in between a Gist B and C but costs less than either. If you eliminate the Gist boosters from the equation you can make 3-damagemod armor tank setups that easily compete with 3-damagemod shield setups. It's the fact that Gist boosters use so little cap that you can run an XL booster off nothing but CCC rigs and therefore can fill your midslots with tank instead of cap rechargers that makes shield tanking so dominant. If you fit a Pith-X XLSB on a navy raven you need seven cap mods (three rigs and four rechargers) to get it cap stable. A Gist-X XLSB is cap stable on three CCC rigs. It uses 49% of the cap and 74% of the CPU of the Pith-X, yet provides 82% of the tank.
Ami Quintero Royal Trading Amarr-Caldari Mercantile Exchange 4	Posted - 2013.09.22 10:56:00 - [24] - Quote Xequecal wrote: People use shield tanks in PvE because the Gist line of shield boosters is phenomenally overpowered. In my experience, most people are using Pith for the higher throughput, and nobody cares about cap stability. Also, the rep boosts in Ody 1.1 are a (relative) nerf to deadspace shield boosters. There are lots of reasons shield tanking is popular. The main ones are missiles and low-slot damage mods. You'll notice, though, that there are cases where those don't hold true. The low-SP Domi sniper, for example, has plenty of low-slots left over for tank after fitting DDAs, but it's very difficult to cram a shield tank + prop mod + omni TLs into its 5 mid slots.
John Ratcliffe sausy sausages 212	Posted - 2013.09.22 11:14:00 - [25] - Quote Xequecal wrote: If you fit a Pith-X XLSB on a navy raven you need seven cap mods (three rigs and four rechargers) to get it cap stable. Why would you want it to be cap stable? You should prioritise DPS over tank always for PVE. You only need enough tank to sustain you through peak DPS. Plus +ºa change, plus c'est la m+¬me chose
Marc Callan Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors 293	Posted - 2013.09.22 11:45:00 - [26] - Quote John Ratcliffe wrote: Xequecal wrote: If you fit a Pith-X XLSB on a navy raven you need seven cap mods (three rigs and four rechargers) to get it cap stable. Why would you want it to be cap stable? You should prioritise DPS over tank always for PVE. You only need enough tank to sustain you through peak DPS. When you're flying a drone, missile, or projectile platform, I absolutely agree: you don't always need reps, but if something goes wrong, you need a lot of them, fast. For that, if I had the budget, I'd go with Pith over Gist. However, for a ship like the Nightmare, where there are other demands on capacitor energy besides the tank, I'd think the Gist's capacitor efficiency would make a lot of sense, especially since there's only so much room in the shot locker for cap booster charges. Never flown a Nightmare myself, but I've flown laser boats and other cap-hungry ships, and found instances where I'd have to shut down the guns or risk the tank being overwhelmed. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á
Xequecal GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 75	Posted - 2013.09.22 12:25:00 - [27] - Quote John Ratcliffe wrote: Xequecal wrote: If you fit a Pith-X XLSB on a navy raven you need seven cap mods (three rigs and four rechargers) to get it cap stable. Why would you want it to be cap stable? You should prioritise DPS over tank always for PVE. You only need enough tank to sustain you through peak DPS. You don't really, but you're missing the point. Whatever cap regen point you think is acceptable, you need half the number of cap mods to reach that point for the Gist boosters than for any other kind of booster.
Ralph King-Griffin Var Foundation inc. 87	Posted - 2013.09.22 12:36:00 - [28] - Quote Marc Callan wrote: John Ratcliffe wrote: Xequecal wrote: If you fit a Pith-X XLSB on a navy raven you need seven cap mods (three rigs and four rechargers) to get it cap stable. Why would you want it to be cap stable? You should prioritise DPS over tank always for PVE. You only need enough tank to sustain you through peak DPS. When you're flying a drone, missile, or projectile platform, I absolutely agree: you don't always need reps, but if something goes wrong, you need a lot of them, fast. For that, if I had the budget, I'd go with Pith over Gist. However, for a ship like the Nightmare, where there are other demands on capacitor energy besides the tank, I'd think the Gist's capacitor efficiency would make a lot of sense, especially since there's only so much room in the shot locker for cap booster charges. Never flown a Nightmare myself, but I've flown laser boats and other cap-hungry ships, and found instances where I'd have to shut down the guns or risk the tank being overwhelmed. mids on my npoc are sensor boost tracking computer Mjd and a navy cap injector Because **** cap stability. You're bang on there man full rack of tychoons in particular will eat your cap in a matter of seconds when the tank is going, ill post the fit when I get home If in doubt...do...excessively.
Bertrand Butler Cras es Noster 86	Posted - 2013.09.22 12:54:00 - [29] - Quote Aivo Dresden wrote: I've ran a very similar fit in the past. It definitely worked, I've not tried it since the CS and medium rail changes a few weeks ago though. It definitely worked before. It perhaps wasn't the fastest ship, but it was a lot of fun to play. :) Does it still work (well)? :P If it worked before, it works even better now man. In fact, for the factions the T2 resists are optimal this is better than a rail Proteus or a legion. You can read more about it here...C:

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