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When do you get to survive combat missions long enough to actually make money.

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Trazalian Mangeiri Free Guard of Arrakis 0	Posted - 2013.09.19 23:05:00 - [1] - Quote I keep hearing "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Given that in a combat role, I seem incapable of actually earning money, that seems to mean fly a Reaper, especially considering more expensive ships are always insured for 10-30% of their actual value. e.g. Accept part 2 of the mission, agent says "This has to be done quickly before reinforcements arrive". Bring in a long range ship, go through the gate, and get dropped 8 bloody km from 5 ships with webifiers on them, along with their 15 friends, several of whom are in much bigger ships. Webbed for 85-90% velocity, can't move, can't shoot back, screwed, dead. Bring back a fast ship packed with overdrives and an MWD. Still get webbed for 85%-90% velocity, at farther range than any web available can reach, still getting hit going 800 m/s, still screwed, still dead. Mark the location of the wrecks just to try to recover some small measure of the money that I lost. Can't get to them, have to take the gate and get dropped into the middle of the same mess rather than warp directly to my wreck, still get webbed at some stupid range, still get sniped by big guns, still screwed, still dead. So my question is, unless I can somehow figure out a way to make money off blowing up my own ships, how am I ever supposed to fly something I CAN afford to lose? This happens in about 30 - 50% of the missions out there. Add in the ships with 95% resist to everything that can hit you at virtually any transverse velocity, and you're pooched on a lot of the others too. Am I honestly expected to pay a monthly subscription for 2 years to do nothing but mine and build up skill points until I can use and afford something that hopefully has a 70% survival rate?
Thomas Builder Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 97	Posted - 2013.09.19 23:17:00 - [2] - Quote Are you trying to run lvl 5s or something like that? As a 6 months old pilot you should have zero problem running lvl 3 and, if you had a skill plan for it, you should even be able to easily run lvl 4s. Combat missions are usually boringly easy, I haven't lost a ship since I can fly Cruisers, so I can just guess that you have no idea at all what you are doing. Trazalian Mangeiri wrote: several of whom are in much bigger ships. This should not happen if you follow the normal guidelines (lvl 1 - frig; lvl 2 - cruiser; lvl 3 - battlecruiser; lvl 4 - battleship). If you see several ships that are in "much" bigger ships you aren't bringing the right tool for the job.
NightCrawler 85 Phoibe Enterprises 1010	Posted - 2013.09.19 23:23:00 - [3] - Quote So much depends on what level mission your doing, your fitting and your support skills. Getting your support skills up to level 3 or so wont take you very long, and its skills you will never regret. Get some tank on your ship. Start with overtanking it if your worried, then switch some of the tank for DPS mods when you feel you have an idea of how much damage you can take. Other things that can make it easier for you.. If you land right on top of the rats, fit guns with shorter range that has a chance of hitting them (use drones to get the frigs that are webbing you). Use the correct ammo type and switch your hardeners depending on what rats your fighting. If your in doubt about how the mission works, what ammo to use and what to tank for use this site, and as Thomas mentioned, make sure you have the appropriate ship for what level mission your doing (some will be able to use other ships with no problems because of their skills, but if your very new and have no support skills his guidelines should be good for you). Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread The Eve Reader - -áAudio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
Eggs Ackley 4	Posted - 2013.09.20 00:48:00 - [4] - Quote It appears you have no idea what you are doing. Missions are easy and can be successfully run from your first day. Maybe this will help http://www.peepnation.com/mirror/eve-survival/wikka0c2e.html?wakka=MissionReports#U
Trazalian Mangeiri Free Guard of Arrakis 0	Posted - 2013.09.20 03:20:00 - [5] - Quote K, well that pretty much covers it. May have misphrased the original question because I was a little irked. The short answer appears to be combat missions are never particularly profitable. Tank build takes forever to complete a mission with because it's so light on damage. Damage build will get torn up by the masses. Either way I'd be better off AFK mining. It's fine, just makes me wish I'd focused more on PVP from the start, maybe not picked the race that's toted as speed tankers.
Lady Naween Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 207	Posted - 2013.09.20 03:34:00 - [6] - Quote Trazalian Mangeiri wrote: K, well that pretty much covers it. May have misphrased the original question because I was a little irked. The short answer appears to be combat missions are never particularly profitable. Tank build takes forever to complete a mission with because it's so light on damage. Damage build will get torn up by the masses. Either way I'd be better off AFK mining. It's fine, just makes me wish I'd focused more on PVP from the start, maybe not picked the race that's toted as speed tankers. this isnt true at all. as in... you are not even close. it is probably more a case of you having very low skills, or using a very bad fit or you are doing soemthing else wrong. Any race can easily do missions, why dont you link your skills and the ship in question and we can help you.
Eggs Ackley 4	Posted - 2013.09.20 03:40:00 - [7] - Quote Missions are about gank. DPS=faster completion=riches beyond imagination.
Xercodo Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering 2556	Posted - 2013.09.20 06:36:00 - [8] - Quote Lady Naween wrote: Trazalian Mangeiri wrote: K, well that pretty much covers it. May have misphrased the original question because I was a little irked. The short answer appears to be combat missions are never particularly profitable. Tank build takes forever to complete a mission with because it's so light on damage. Damage build will get torn up by the masses. Either way I'd be better off AFK mining. It's fine, just makes me wish I'd focused more on PVP from the start, maybe not picked the race that's toted as speed tankers. this isnt true at all. as in... you are not even close. it is probably more a case of you having very low skills, or using a very bad fit or you are doing soemthing else wrong. Any race can easily do missions, why dont you link your skills and the ship in question and we can help you. pretty much this... also hello linda :P The Drake is a Lie
Tao Dolcino Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 76	Posted - 2013.09.20 06:42:00 - [9] - Quote As a colleague already wrote in this thread, EVE-Survival is your best friend. Never start a mission without firts reading about it on this great website. http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=missionreports Missioning is about managing agro, range, relative velocity and transversal, etc.... If you can't yet survive regulary in missions, i doubt you will do better in pvp, for the basics of fights are the same : it's also about managing agro, range, relative velocity and transversal, etc... But missions are easier (especially with EVE-Survival) because you always know what you will meet, so you can prepare the right ship fitting and tactic. In pvp you don't have this luxury. Have you maybe bought a older character ? That would explain your problem. Maybe a helpful and active corpo could be your solution.
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1477	Posted - 2013.09.20 06:58:00 - [10] - Quote Trazalian Mangeiri wrote: K, well that pretty much covers it. May have misphrased the original question because I was a little irked. The short answer appears to be combat missions are never particularly profitable. Tank build takes forever to complete a mission with because it's so light on damage. Damage build will get torn up by the masses. Either way I'd be better off AFK mining. It's fine, just makes me wish I'd focused more on PVP from the start, maybe not picked the race that's toted as speed tankers. if you are losing ships in a hisec mission, you are doing it wrong. the whole point of missioning is that it allows you to shoot things for income without losing your ship. do your homework, learn which missions you should be doing and which ships you should be flying. "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF

Schmata Bastanold Czerka. WHY so Seri0Us 945	Posted - 2013.09.20 08:19:00 - [11] - Quote Heh, we should point all of those "nerf hisec missions" people to this thread, apparently they are not profitable at all. As others already said, read mission reports, get right ship with right mods and if you still can't beat mission it means either you are way above your level or you are doing something very very wrong. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
SKINE DMZ Stay Frosty. 164	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:54:00 - [12] - Quote When I started I ran lvl 1 till 3 missions (and done a lot of lv3 missions, but never gone up to lv4), and I don't think I ever lost a ship in these missions, maybe once and I can't even remember it. You are definitely doing something wrong, you should be comfortably able to do the missions. What ship are you flying on what mission against which enemies? I disagree
Jim Era 7538	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:54:00 - [13] - Quote I lost a ship in a mission once, remember, you cannot salvage what is not yet destroyed. On the other note, missions are decently profitable...
Klymer Hedion University Amarr Empire 416	Posted - 2013.09.20 12:27:00 - [14] - Quote OP's killboard..... them fits.... please tell me you just bought that character yesterday...
Zanzbar BetaMax Beta 164	Posted - 2013.09.20 12:48:00 - [15] - Quote please tell us what ship your using and what equipment you have fitted on it, somthing is wrong with your fit or the way your flying it if you cant at least turn a profit between ship losses in missions by now.
Zappity Kurved Space 447	Posted - 2013.09.20 12:52:00 - [16] - Quote Eggs Ackley wrote: Missions are about gank. DPS=faster completion=riches beyond imagination. Huh, well I can imagine quite a bit... Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Tyrendian Biohazard Terra Rosa Militia SpaceMonkey's Alliance 127	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:19:00 - [17] - Quote Trazalian Mangeiri wrote: K, well that pretty much covers it. May have misphrased the original question because I was a little irked. The short answer appears to be combat missions are never particularly profitable. Tank build takes forever to complete a mission with because it's so light on damage. Damage build will get torn up by the masses. Either way I'd be better off AFK mining. It's fine, just makes me wish I'd focused more on PVP from the start, maybe not picked the race that's toted as speed tankers. The become profitable more when you get to Level 4s. Additionally, salvaging those missions can bring in more money. Also, why just mine? Low sec exploration can bring in decent money, skills can be trained in a couple days, and teaches you a lot about surviving in lower security space for future pvp. My twitch stream to help new players: http://www.twitch.tv/biohazrd51 Say NO-áto CCP-EA. -áRehabilitate Frank!!
Zappity Kurved Space 447	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:23:00 - [18] - Quote Lowsec faction warfare. All the isk of level 4 missions (and more) without the bollocks. AND you learn PvP into the bargain. Come play. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.")
Marc Callan Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors 292	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:30:00 - [19] - Quote Sounds like a really nasty mission - you may have just had horrible luck of the draw in that regard. In missions, the only really reliable way to defeat a stasis webifier is to destroy the ship (or sometimes the structure) that is mounting it. If you're up against a stasis tower, that means maximum firepower against the tower. If it's a ship, you'll need either missiles or fast-traversing frigate-class guns (most of the time, webbers will be frigates). Larger ships (battlecruisers, battleships) will generally rely on drones to scrape off the tackling frigates (unless they're using drones as primary weapons). You shouldn't really be facing anything bigger than frigates in Level 1 missions, at any rate. If you're starting out as a Minmatar, that'll mean you'll be best off flying the Slasher (light fast gunship), Breacher (missile boat), or Rifter (brawler gunship). The Breacher might be a good fit, because light missiles and rockets have the reach and punch to take out tacklers without generally having to worry too much about whether you're within engagement range. "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred..." - Niccolo Machiavelli-á
Cerebral Genocide Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:15:00 - [20] - Quote You can micro jump away from them, and yes those do work in missions.

Trazalian Mangeiri Free Guard of Arrakis 0	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:25:00 - [21] - Quote Sadly I can't delete this post :(. Forget I said anything....guess I just need to grind level 2s until I get enough money to buy a cane again.
Ryder 'ook Buc Ros 6	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:34:00 - [22] - Quote Why don't you tell us a bit more about your fittings, your general playstyle, your reasoning behind certain decisions and so on? I mean seriously, this community is one of the most helpful you can find - as long as you don't come across like a whining jerk. (and excuse me but your initial post was exactly that: knee-jerk whining) As soon as we learn more about your approach to the game we can try to help. Cheers, Ryder
Lady Naween Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 207	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:57:00 - [23] - Quote what ryder said. we do not mind helping people that actually want help. For all the evil, rude, backstabbing etc we do in game if someone actually wants help you will find most of us (even us evil pirate gankers) are more then willing to help. your first post did come off as a whine though, and most eve players do not take kindly to those. but if you ask... Hi, i just got my rear handed to me in a level three mission called "gank the noob" my hurricane was fit with.. yada yada.. and my skills are this and that in the skills that might be of use.. can someone help me? then you will find yourself with plenty of help :) but ok.. I am guessing you have low skills, so I will ask, what is your gunnery skills like? what level battlecruiser do you have? what was the mission called and how did you fit your hurricane? Now I personally never flown a hurricane in missions for more then.. oh.. 10 or so.. (Amarr Victor!) but lets see... [Hurricane, testing)] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Optical Tracking Computer I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Experimental 10MN Afterburner I 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I [Empty High slot] Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I it is probably far from optimal (I dont fly much minmatar other then the scimitar).. but I am sure the more experienced minmatar pilots can tear it apart and give you a far more optimal fit (i am guessing you dont have t2 everything so i downgraded a few things but t2 armour hardeners is quick to get along with the cap rechargers and they make a huge difference) and hi xercodo, havent seen you in game for ages :) i need to hunt you down and molest you one day
Thomas Builder Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 99	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:56:00 - [24] - Quote For pure PvE, the passive shield fit from EVE-University works very well. ( Stolen from http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Hurricane ) [Hurricane, PvE Passive Shield] 650mm Artillery Cannon II 650mm Artillery Cannon II 650mm Artillery Cannon II 650mm Artillery Cannon II 650mm Artillery Cannon II 650mm Artillery Cannon II Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher Large Shield Extender II Explosive Deflection Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 10MN Afterburner II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Hobgoblin II x6 Depending on your skills and preferences, you might want to replace one of the Shield Power Relays with a Power Diagnosis System in order to get cap stable (but with slightly less shield regen). Having T2 guns helps quite a bit, as you can use Tremor ammo and deal decent damage at over 50km, while with T1 guns you are limited to about 35km if you don't want to cripple your damage completely.
Eli Kzanti Remanaquie Federation 27	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:09:00 - [25] - Quote ^ dont use 3 gyros, you have enough trouble tracking as it is, swap one for a tracking enhancer ^^ In fact, to hell with his fit. [Hurricane, Passive Shield - T1] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Experimental 10MN Afterburner I 650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP M [empty high slot] Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Hobgoblin II x5 Hobgoblin II x1 Cap stable, tanks better, tracks better. About 30 less raw DPS from guns though. Use the last high for whatever.
Vrenth EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 47	Posted - 2013.09.20 19:23:00 - [26] - Quote Trazalian Mangeiri wrote: Sadly I can't delete this post :(. Forget I said anything....guess I just need to grind level 2s until I get enough money to buy a cane again. Sadly, Eve is not a game that lets you cover up how bad you are. It's okay, we are here for you to help you learn from your mistakes and get better. We were all bad at some point (maybe not as bad, but bad) and if you take every loss as a learning experience you'll only get better over time. People saying they have never lost a ship in a mission are lying, its possible if you don't know what you are going into. Do research before you go into a mission so you know what you are up against and dont risk losing an expensive ship to frigates you can't counter.
Thomas Builder Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 99	Posted - 2013.09.20 20:24:00 - [27] - Quote Eli Kzanti wrote: ^ dont use 3 gyros, you have enough trouble tracking as it is, swap one for a tracking enhancer ^^ Debatable, I'd argue that your tracking is so bad that it really doesn't make much of a difference to add a tracking enhancer, once things get under your guns, you need your drones to hit them anyway. Actually, the added range will help more than the added tracking. But then, I switch to Tremor to shoot stuff that's more than 35km away. But the tracking enhancer is definitely an option. Eli Kzanti wrote: Cap stable, tanks better, tracks better. About 30 less raw DPS from guns though. Use the last high for whatever. I agree that it tanks better. However, you need either Advanced Weapon Upgrades at 5 or Shield Upgrades at 5 (and the other skill at 4) in order to have the powergrid to fit that second shield extender. A six-month old player might not have those skills at 5.
Lady Naween Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 208	Posted - 2013.09.21 00:12:00 - [28] - Quote to be fair judging by his KB he doesnt have t2 guns either :)
Trazalian Mangeiri Free Guard of Arrakis 0	Posted - 2013.09.21 12:33:00 - [29] - Quote Actually, I now have T2 guns along with quite a few other modules. Don't have any T2 modification fitting skills, but T2 mods seem pretty prohibitively expensive for my bank roll anyway. My most recent cane & wolf lost were actually in incursions, and a fair number of my other losses have been in low sec trying to earn some cash to buy decent ships again. Unfortunately, I seem to have a knack for running into folks who stack a ton of warp scrams. Don't have one fitted right now, but my cane fit would be large extenders, medium T2 booster, AB, and PG upgrades on the low slots because I always seem to run out, plus they boost my passive shield regen. I've tried it with both autocannons and artillery. Problem is the hitting, especially if I get webbed, I seem to constantly be spending ages trying to kill off the frigs. I've been using warrior drones, and they seem awfully fragile. I've tried fitting Tracking enhancers in the low slots, but I have to either sacrifice some of my tank of some of my damage potential against other cruisers for what seems like pretty paltry gains in actual shots on target. The only other fit I generally use is a wolf with T2 autocannons, cap battery, AB, T2 armor rep, a resist membrane depending on who I'm up against, Armor rep pump, and various combinations of tracking and gyros (have T2 in both of these now). I've actually run L3 & 4 successfully in that fit, but if I run into a ranged web with any number of baddies around, I'm pretty much done, and unfortunately its about a 40 mill fit that only gives something like 6 mill on insurance. Presently running L2s in a Thrasher with T1 artillery and mostly range and targeting in the other slots, just to try to build up some cash again. I've run level 4s with a cane, but I've never bothered investing In a BS, because I don't seem to fair that much better in
Trazalian Mangeiri Free Guard of Arrakis 0	Posted - 2013.09.21 12:44:00 - [30] - Quote As far as play style, I seem to do better speed tanking with a Wolf, and get things done a lot faster. I generally only run into trouble when something slows me down or I have to spend forever downing a T2 BC. On a BC I generally run artillery. Also presently running on a bit of a shoe string budget, bad early decisions, idle time, and a couple month stint living in low sec. Hoping that if the stuff I have on market sells I can get back into a fully fitted cane with T2 artillery.



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