This totally needed another thread, and you're not at all a shiptoasting goon alt.

It did need a thread in the correct location, sir. The CSM are our representatives, after all.

Those of us who are awake are keeping tabs on things in the other channel.

Wait....

The CSM seriously didn't know CCP has been handing these out like candy for months now?

Were you not at fanfest?

Did you not watch SCL?

Do you not participate in any of the not-0.0-hivemind community events in Eve?

Hell, since most of you only play forums online and not eve - do you not read the sell order threads?

Here is the statement we did even before this article went out: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=281879

Exactly, the time stamp (aug 20( shows that we are looking at the same mistake, same timeline as before.

m

[...] GÇ£we're going to give you unique ships. Have fun.GÇ¥ [...] is just T20-style feeding people goodies for no adequate reason. This is [...] handing specific individuals buckets of valuables.

CCP has always rewarded players, mostly via hardcoded ingame means, but also manually for certain achievements or such.

but at the same time, how do you know that there isn't a way for a dev to give distinct people special mission rewards? Or spawn better sites in a w-space system?

They only started this community site reward program, so it's a bit early to judge if they show unjust favoritism by selecting only specific sites yet.

Another question if is we accept the community as part of the game, and thus accept rewarding actions/achievements outside the game. Consindering how everyone praises Eve for its metagame, it doesn't seem far off.

I'm going to spell it out for people who obviously don't get it.

I pay to play this game.

I pay for a game in which the object is to become the biggest space badass, or the richest space industrialist, or the most devious space spy, or whatever. Those are the aspects of the game that CCP advertises and that's how CCP sold me the game in the first place.

I did not think I was getting a game in which the object is to become the biggest CCP ass kisser, the biggest fanboy of the developer of said game, so I can get all the best stuff handed to me by them and "win."

If I wanted that, there are probably hundreds of free to play game servers run by teenagers who like giving stuff to their buddies that I could play instead. If this article is true (and I am still a little skeptical, but only a little) then that's the level CCP has sunk to and I've been ripped off.

To be clear, I am speaking from my role as a CCP customer, not an in-game character or whatever.

Yep, the significant difference being that everyone can take part, it doesn't require to be hand-picked and deemed worthy by a dev.

Of course it is theoretically possible for devs to do that, and if it came out that it actually happened the response wouldn't be any different from what we see now. So I'm not sure what your point here is.

Not really, they already started about as bad as they could, not only by choosing an ingame competitive for-profit organization, but even worse by handing out significant ingame valuables.

Everyone can do something for the community to eventually stand out.

My point is, whether CCP gives out items to players via code or manually doesn't determine if it's bad or not, what matters is if there is unjust favoritism at play.

If you follow Dinsdale, the game code/design is full of goon favoritism.

Exactly, the time stamp (aug 20( shows that we are looking at the same mistake, same timeline as before.

There is nothing wrong with CCP rewarding Somer. They reward many small time bloggers with free Plex and Subscriptions on a regular basis. Considering Somer's contribution is proportionately larger so is their reward.

Since CCP has set the precedent of giving such rewards to community contributors they find worthy, such as Somer, maybe you all should get off your high horses and work to contribute in a similar manner. Yes, Somer is a for profit gambling site. Yes, Somer employees make ISK. But that does not detract from the contributions Somer makes for Eve. Feel free to contribute to the community in a profitable way and CCP may recognize you.

Somer sponsors some of the more high profile Eve media contributors in the game; PVP Videos, Podcasts, etc.
Somer sponsors many of the Eve CCP created and player created tournaments and prizes.
Somer sponsors community groups within Eve such as RvB.

Somer does a lot for the Eve community. Why is it that everytime CCP does something its always a scandal? CCP takes the Eve community seriously and Eve players seem to take that for granted and whine about every CCP action that benefits someone else.

There is nothing wrong with CCP rewarding Somer. They reward many small time bloggers with free Plex and Subscriptions on a regular basis. Considering Somer's contribution is proportionately larger so is their reward.

This just in: Marketing is charity.

The ISK value of the award to Somer is pretty much irrelevant. Somer have so much ISK that the ISK factor is meaningless to them

The original plan of giving Somer Guardian Vexors and Gold Magnates was a horrible idea that cannibalised EVE's history for a short term PR event. Giving ships that have been specifically purposed as a community award as a community award to an organisation that has supported the community is pretty straightforward.

No I don't see the "huge" ISK value as much of an issue. For the following reasons:

1) The Somer people have more ISK than they know what to do with. The ISK value of this award is meaningless to them.

2) And that ISK value is pretty hypothetical. And it's based purely on the rarity of the Ishscorps given out so far. Note that so far. CCP have said outright that they've given these out before and they're going to be given out again. The mere fact of giving out another 30 has significantly reduced the rarity of these ships.

In fact I think that giving gametime to Somer would be much less appropriate than the Ishscorps. That really would be a straight up money gift, rather than what amounts to a set of harmless souveniers.

Well have fun being angry about this for another day or two, I'm off to bed.

Well, one should always see the positive side in everything. And if there has been one positive thing about these recent incidents, it's to see which of the CSM dudes actually understand the core workings of the game and are willing to protect them.

[quote=Manu Militari]

The timing was bad and the transparency was very poor indeed, but as such this is pretty straightforward.

Yeah pretty much.

The ISK value of the award to Somer is pretty much irrelevant. Somer have so much ISK that the ISK factor is meaningless to them - not to mention that the rarity value (and let's remember that rarity is all the trade value they have) of these ships just took a nosedive because they're now much less rare. And they're going to get even less rare in future as CCP hand more of them out to other deserving individuals. Comparing this to the T20 incident is just dumb and wrong.

The original plan of giving Somer Guardian Vexors and Gold Magnates was a horrible idea that cannibalised EVE's history for a short term PR event. Giving ships that have been specifically purposed as a community award as a community award to an organisation that has supported the community is pretty straightforward. The timing was bad and the transparency was very poor indeed, but as such this is pretty straightforward.

Who said anything about charity?

When you see a beer company plastering their banners over a concert series, do you think that beer company really just cares that much about the community? I doubt it. I doubt it very much.

So... How do the ships themselves threaten the core workings of the game?

What is this, church? Of course CCP think that they'll get a commercial advantage by rewarding those who support the community. That is what we call enlightened self interest.

What is this, church? Of course CCP think that they'll get a commercial advantage by rewarding those who support the community. That is what we call enlightened self interest.

I like it when people try to compare video games to reality. It lets me know who's entirely lost sight of the reality horizon.

The analogy was beer company equating to Somer Blink. Not beer company equating to CCP Games.

If CCP wants more player-driven content, reward the people that organize that content, not the people who are sponsoring it for their own profit-driven ends.

As noted above, you are missing the analogy entirely. So I'll dispense with analogies.

Nothing Somer does whatsoever is worth any reward.

Further, even if one did feel Somer deserves a reward for something, why should they be rewarded over their competitors? CCP giving things to one in-game entity over another competing in-game entity is known as favoritism and that exact thing was the genesis of the entire fake politician space job whose position you now so uselessly occupy.

edit:

[quote=Malcanis]Now it seems that it's OK for CCP to give community awards, you just disagree with the receipient of this particular award.

As noted above, you are missing the analogy entirely. So I'll dispense with analogies.

Nothing Somer does whatsoever is worth any reward.

OK now we're getting to the gist of it.

What do you know about why Somer got the award? Why do you think your opinion carries weight in this matter?

Why do you think your opinion carries weight in this matter?

Incarna taught him that if he's offended enough about inconsequential events in a video game, people who matter in the world will listen to him.

Mittens told him this is a good inconsequential event in a video game to be outraged about.

This just in: Marketing is charity.

To get away from analogies, and everything else, I think the main point is that most players would rather CCP not give in-game things to individual groups at all, regardless of what that group has done. Community spotlights? Sure, I guess, though it should never have been for 3rd party RMT gambling sites. Want to make t-shirts for them at fanfest? Sure, great idea. Want to make Blink tokens to hand out at EVE Vegas? Super, doesn't change the balance in the game at all.

Want to give 30 ships to someone in private? Nope, because they now have a knowledge about the supply of the ships no one else has, leading to a direct in game advantage when selling them.

Want to give one site free ships to give to the community? Nope, because they have competition, and you're both endorsing them, and stating to the player base that they are in fact not a scam. You open yourself up for a tsunami of petitions if they ever do decide to just take everything they have and go away.

I can see why the CSM members who are hoping to get free swag themselves are backing CCP, but I'm not sure why the others are doing it beyond brown-nosing. It really is OK to disagree with CCP sometimes, some of them will still listen to you on other things.

What is this, church? Of course CCP think that they'll get a commercial advantage by rewarding those who support the community. That is what we call enlightened self interest.