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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.01 02:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Excited to say that I'll be hunting in Destroyers soon.
For to long they have been the joke of the lower end line up. I remember working so hard for my first Dessy, a Cormorant and thought that it was amazing in the lvl1 missions, only to lose it time and time again in lvl 2's (mind you this was after Emperian Age came out). The fitting frustrated me to no end and eventually I moved on to the drake.
Even now I would never consider pvping in a Destroyer (except the Thrasher  ) but with the coming buff any toon with half decent gunnery skills can field an effective high dps low sig platform. This is something that is badly needed with the new Tier 3 BC's fast ships able to move in and take out much larger ships will signal more diverse fleet types and tactical wings if you will (At least this is my hope that it'll be this way).
More likely the tier 3 BC's will be used as suicide ganking platforms and anti-BS/Cap in fast moving Cruiser fleets. I sincerely hope that the new list of buffs and nerfs (Thank god they nerfed the dramiel!!). Will usher in a new age of diverse fleet warfare and small gang tactics.
I for one have already started buying more destroyer hulls than I usually do in anticipation for some amazing fights. |
Headerman
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
292
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Posted - 2011.11.01 02:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
I thought the amarr dessy was bad until i flew it with a damage rig or two and a few damage mods in the lows... cheap thrills ftw!
The Apostle : I want a kangeroo
Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians
Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US?
Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
21
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Posted - 2011.11.01 02:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
The coer is highly underrated in light of how good the Thrasher is. But I love my Coer - especially with beams. . . |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.01 03:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I can honestly say that I've flown the Coercer only once, but I am more than willing to give it another try before the Expansion. Who know's could be my new favorite. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Go Petition Blizzard
212
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Posted - 2011.11.01 03:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Coercer is pitifully short on mid slots. No amarr ship should only have one. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
59
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Posted - 2011.11.01 03:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Coercer is pitifully short on mid slots. No amarr ship should only have one.
No combat ship should only have one medslot. Amarr ships aren't meant to have many medslots, that's a racial trait, but only having a single medslot is completely crippling. |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
101
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Posted - 2011.11.01 03:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Coercer is pitifully short on mid slots. No amarr ship should only have one. No combat ship should only have one medslot. Amarr ships aren't meant to have many medslots, that's a racial trait, but only having a single medslot is completely crippling.
Ever ship should have one basic point that doesn't take a slot... |
Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries
Narwhals Ate My Duck
2
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Posted - 2011.11.01 03:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
If I calculate this correctly, with the removal of the 25% rof penalty, destroyers will do epic dps.
According to my calculations the with tech 2 damage mods, biggest tech 2 short range guns and faction ammo:
Catalyst: 513 DPS
Coercer: 440 DPS
Thrasher: 380 DPS
Cormorant: 290 DPS. <- Lol
Along with sig radius reduction and hitpoint increase these will tear frigates apart. |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
203
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Posted - 2011.11.01 05:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:Catalyst: 513 DPS
Time to dust off the Cat. |
Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries
Narwhals Ate My Duck
2
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Posted - 2011.11.01 05:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Soon Shin wrote:Catalyst: 513 DPS Time to dust off the Cat.
Using implants and Void S, you get 630 DPS. :)
725 DPS with Overheat  |
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Gierling
The Scope
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.01 06:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yeah the CAt has always had the option of being the big stick in a light fleet, and it can really lay the hurt on when you just need to melt a larger targets before his friends can show up. It'll lose a bit of the sleeper status that made it work so well in this role, but its a fair tradeoff.
Its also pretty fun with rails. For ***** and giggles, try a 75mm gatling rail setup. It sounds awesome, does decent damage and allows a versatile fit.
Of course the real limitation of any Destroyer in light warfare is still going to be warp speed. The cruiser warp speed is still going to make FC's want to leave you behind as they try to outrun heavier fleets while roaming deep in enemy space. Destroyers could use a warp speed increase as well to be truly viable. |
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2011.11.01 09:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
The one mid is a drag but my Coercer was my favorite ship for a good long time. I'd love to be able to go back to it again. |
Meridith Akesia
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
53
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Posted - 2011.11.01 11:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Its the lack of mids that is the only problem with the coercer and catalyst. |
river Zateki
Dutch Squad
Chained Reactions
1
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Posted - 2011.11.01 11:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
One med slot is a joke. It makes the Retribution an (almost) nonviable pvp boat, along with the coercer. Honestly its safe to say its so bad that id rather take a 2-4 setup instead of a 1-7 lol. Every combat ship in this game should get atleast 2 midslows, minimum. |
Zarnak Wulf
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2011.11.01 13:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:If I calculate this correctly, with the removal of the 25% rof penalty, destroyers will do epic dps.
According to my calculations the with tech 2 damage mods, biggest tech 2 short range guns and faction ammo:
Catalyst: 513 DPS
Coercer: 440 DPS
Thrasher: 380 DPS
Cormorant: 290 DPS. <- Lol
Along with sig radius reduction and hitpoint increase these will tear frigates apart.
The Thrasher with damage rigs will be closer to 450ish DPS. In all honesty it should lose one turret hardpoint to bring the other dessies up to par. It's the only destroyer to get a damage bonus in addition to the tracking and optimal bonus. Any other Minmatar ship that gets a straight damage bonus is limited in total number of turrets. Hurricane - 6. Tempest - 6. Etc.
The Cormorant should always be fitted with rails too. 100 DPS at 70km sounds anemic but that is effectively a no-fly zone for interceptors - which is the point. |
Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries
Narwhals Ate My Duck
3
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Posted - 2011.11.01 13:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Thrasher with damage rigs will be closer to 450ish DPS. In all honesty it should lose one turret hardpoint to bring the other dessies up to par. It's the only destroyer to get a damage bonus in addition to the tracking and optimal bonus. Any other Minmatar ship that gets a straight damage bonus is limited in total number of turrets. Hurricane - 6. Tempest - 6. Etc.
The Cormorant should always be fitted with rails too. 100 DPS at 70km sounds anemic but that is effectively a no-fly zone for interceptors - which is the point.
The thrasher does, it has 7 guns as opposed to the 8 guns on the catalyst and coercer.
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Zarnak Wulf
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2011.11.01 13:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
The damage bonus throws it out of whack into overpowered territory though. There's no reason to fly a coercer or catalyst over a thrasher. It's faster, has better range. The DPS advantage of the Amarr and Gallente destroyers is anemic at best. That's an issue. |
Skarned
Inroads
10
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Posted - 2011.11.01 14:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Soon Shin wrote:Catalyst: 513 DPS Time to dust off the Cat. Using implants and Void S, you get 630 DPS. :) 725 DPS with Overheat
Not sure, but I think this means that we'll be able to solo suicide hulks in .5 with destroyers. |
Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries
Narwhals Ate My Duck
3
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Posted - 2011.11.01 14:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:The damage bonus throws it out of whack into overpowered territory though. There's no reason to fly a coercer or catalyst over a thrasher. It's faster, has better range. The DPS advantage of the Amarr and Gallente destroyers is anemic at best. That's an issue.
I do agree with you for what you say. I think it would be best if both the coercer and catalyst had one turret slot removed and given a 25% damage bonus. The thrasher has enough fitting since it needs to only fit 7 turrets and do more dps than 8 unbonused guns.
Both Destroyers need more cpu/pg, they are lacking due to how demanding it is to fit 8 lasers or blasters.
I would favor swapping a highslot or lowslot from the coercer for a midslot.
The catalyst would be good with a damage bonus instead of a falloff bonus, with the fitting requirements lowered for hybrids, I see it being much easier to fit in the future.
The coercer really needs a damage bonus, problem is that it already has its bonus taken by cap usage bonus. |
VaMei
Meafi Corp
57
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Posted - 2011.11.01 16:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Skarned wrote:Soon Shin wrote:DarkAegix wrote:Soon Shin wrote:Catalyst: 513 DPS Time to dust off the Cat. Using implants and Void S, you get 630 DPS. :) 725 DPS with Overheat Not sure, but I think this means that we'll be able to solo suicide hulks in .5 with destroyers.
Well built Hulks should live through one Cat, but Macs should prepare for a bitter harvest. Winter is comming. |
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Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
24
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Posted - 2011.11.01 17:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
You don't need more then one mid tbh, that is what friends are for. You trade solo/vesitility for great dps and fantastic ranges and a petty hefty tank (ofc its a dessy so there is no tank, but its still tanky for a dessy).
This one mid is bs argument miss' the whole point of the ship. People have been crying about it for ages, and its really their loss to avoid a ship that does not have the magical 3 mids. |
Gazmin VanBurin
Go Petition Blizzard
2
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Posted - 2011.11.01 18:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
I see allot of people put long points on them so that it gives then enough time to waist them before they get out of range. |
cyka776
6
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Posted - 2011.11.01 20:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
the main problem i see w/ this is that they wont be as underestimated .. that was one of the best things about them |
Zarnak Wulf
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
32
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Posted - 2011.11.01 20:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's been a long time since they were underestimated. |
Bomberlocks
CTRL-Q
26
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Posted - 2011.11.02 03:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Soon Shin wrote:If I calculate this correctly, with the removal of the 25% rof penalty, destroyers will do epic dps.
According to my calculations the with tech 2 damage mods, biggest tech 2 short range guns and faction ammo:
Catalyst: 513 DPS
Coercer: 440 DPS
Thrasher: 380 DPS
Cormorant: 290 DPS. <- Lol
Along with sig radius reduction and hitpoint increase these will tear frigates apart. The Thrasher with damage rigs will be closer to 450ish DPS. In all honesty it should lose one turret hardpoint to bring the other dessies up to par. It's the only destroyer to get a damage bonus in addition to the tracking and optimal bonus. Any other Minmatar ship that gets a straight damage bonus is limited in total number of turrets. Hurricane - 6. Tempest - 6. Etc. The Cormorant should always be fitted with rails too. 100 DPS at 70km sounds anemic but that is effectively a no-fly zone for interceptors - which is the point.
The reality of dessie combat has always been that they die. Often. This won't change even with slightly better hp and reduced sig. What will change is that they can now catch some stuff (the Thrasher) and kill it really, really quickly (the Catalyist), keep inties off your back (Cormorant and Coercer).
The skills needed to fly any destroyer are so basic that any character can be flying a 500 dps Catalyst in a few weeks and all four in a month more.
This is an amazing buff to new players and will make dessie gangs viable again.
The only thing that bothers me is that AFs are going to die horribly to Thrashers and I really, really hope that the promised 4th bonus for the AF will be implemented. |
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2011.11.02 08:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:If I calculate this correctly, with the removal of the 25% rof penalty, destroyers will do epic dps.
According to my calculations the with tech 2 damage mods, biggest tech 2 short range guns and faction ammo:
Catalyst: 513 DPS
Coercer: 440 DPS
Thrasher: 380 DPS
Cormorant: 290 DPS. <- Lol
Along with sig radius reduction and hitpoint increase these will tear frigates apart.
the coercer does not have the powergrid and cpu to fit a rack of t2 medium pulses and a buffer tank, a pure DPS arty fit thrasher will 2 volley it, if the coercer has trimarks, 3 volley shots. the advantage still goes to minmatar for being able to instapop everything and they are still complaining about having ****** capitals when they have the best ships BC and down, especially with the new BC sized thrasher with oversized guns, why try to out DPS when you can more or less volley enemies off the field they either
1. retreat or 2. die if they decide to stay
oh and the minmatar still have BCs capable of putting out battleship DPS and tanking ability, and everyone will still be bringing along thrashers for the ability to volley everything to death |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
10
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Posted - 2011.11.02 13:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
These new stats, if accurate, may be a tad overpowered.
Still, I quite like the idea of the roles being split - Minmatar and Gallente are the heavy damage dealers while Amarr and Caldari are the long range anti-inty platforms. I'm interested to see what the Cormorant can do with rails with this new buff. |
Mirei Jun
Right to Rule
THE UNTHINKABLES
5
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Posted - 2011.11.02 17:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Definitely hope these changes go into affect.
Absurdly high DPS on a fragile hull. That is what Destroyers should be. These changes will hopefully make Destros the anti-frig platform they were meant to be. |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp
V.A.S.T.
13
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Posted - 2011.11.02 18:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ruah Piskonit wrote:The coer is highly underrated in light of how good the Thrasher is. But I love my Coer - especially with beams. . .
A well fit Coercer can do alot. It is one of my favorite ships to fly. A prime example of form following function!
|
Korg Leaf
Shockwave Innovations
0
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Posted - 2011.11.02 19:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Barbie D0ll wrote:Soon Shin wrote:If I calculate this correctly, with the removal of the 25% rof penalty, destroyers will do epic dps.
According to my calculations the with tech 2 damage mods, biggest tech 2 short range guns and faction ammo:
Catalyst: 513 DPS
Coercer: 440 DPS
Thrasher: 380 DPS
Cormorant: 290 DPS. <- Lol
Along with sig radius reduction and hitpoint increase these will tear frigates apart. the coercer does not have the powergrid and cpu to fit a rack of t2 medium pulses and a buffer tank, a pure DPS arty fit thrasher will 2 volley it, if the coercer has trimarks, 3 volley shots. the advantage still goes to minmatar for being able to instapop everything and they are still complaining about having ****** capitals when they have the best ships BC and down, especially with the new BC sized thrasher with oversized guns, why try to out DPS when you can more or less volley enemies off the field they either 1. retreat or 2. die if they decide to stay oh and the minmatar still have BCs capable of putting out battleship DPS and tanking ability, and everyone will still be bringing along thrashers for the ability to volley everything to death
The coercer doesnt need to be able to fit its largest weapons and tank, with DLPs you get a good tank and still roughly 430dps after the boost.
Also Minmatar dont have the best ship in every class BC down |
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