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Teinyhr A Club for Reputable Gentlemen 255	Posted - 2013.10.07 12:35:00 - [1] - Quote What, if any, EVE ships capable of this? I faintly recall reading an old short story or chronicle that had a group of Minmatar commandos arriving to some sort of secret base via a Rifter - not really sure what exactly happened in said story but I'm pretty sure the ship was a Rifter and that it landed in a breathable atmosphere. Also, do EVE's spaceship in general have some sort of magitech like gravity nullification that would allow ships without aerodynamic hulls to at least visit a planetary atmosphere?
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 1644	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:44:00 - [2] - Quote none, at least none of the capsuleer-pilotable ships are (remember - T1 hulls are just re-purposed warships from the past). There are likely other ships that we just don't pay attention to that can. Dunno what the ships have (not gone into that much from the chronicles/books IIRC) ... probably some sort of thrust vectoring. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 366	Posted - 2013.10.07 19:14:00 - [3] - Quote They showed condor flying in atmosphere in tech demo many years ago, so i don't know really. :/ Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats.
Fredfredbug4 Eve Defence Force Cult of War 1411	Posted - 2013.10.07 20:00:00 - [4] - Quote In the lore it says that Tritanium (the mineral used the most in every ship) reacts rather...explosively...with atmosphere. Therefore, making it impossible for our ships to enter a planet in one piece. Of course, that bit of information contradicts the existence of crews, who would need an atmosphere to survive inside the ship. The counter argument to this has typically been that crew compartments and life support systems aren't made out of Tritanium. Alright, that sounds pretty good. But then Walking in Stations came out and once again brought the topic up again. We have a balcony right in the hanger, so it's safe to assume that the hanger is pressurized unless there is some invisible forcefield containing the atmosphere on the station. So we really don't know how a ship would operate in atmosphere because the lore writers can't decide whether or not they spontaneously combust when they come in contact with a planet's air. Assuming they can indeed enter atmosphere safely, then you have the problem of aerodynamics. Most ships are anything but aerodynamic and those that are would handle like bricks. Considering there are no real wings on any of our ships, there will be no way to generate lift, requiring our ships to use thrust and thrust alone to handle overcoming drag and gravity. Anything larger than a cruiser would be a challenge to keep aloft. TL;DR Ships in EVE probably can operate in atmosphere, except that it would be wildly impractical and extremely dangerous to do so, even with smaller craft such as frigates. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Teinyhr A Club for Reputable Gentlemen 255	Posted - 2013.10.07 20:31:00 - [5] - Quote Right, in Theodicy the story clearly mentions "Rifter's landing skids". Then again these ships are piloted by standard crews as far as I've understood... One has to wonder then, how are standard empire navy vessels then built differently, and with what materials? They even land to a place called "Hell's Gate" that is a volcanically very active planet and apparently very, very hot.
Esna Pitoojee Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession 322	Posted - 2013.10.07 22:32:00 - [6] - Quote While I do acknowledge that the Rifter certainly could have landing skids - it is certainly one of the more aerodynamic ships in EVE -Theodicy (and just about anything else written by TonyG) tends to play fast and loose with a lot of lore, so I'm hesitant to give much credit towards that; another of his novels had a dreadnought somehow manage sustained atmospheric flight. In reality, the greatest problem for any of our vessels entering the atmosphere is not lack of control surfaces or sheer mass, but that they were not structurally designed to function with the kind of external stresses that movement in an atmosphere entails. Even the thickest stellar clouds we fly through aren't likely to present anything near the forces - mechanical shock, differential drag shearing, frictional heating, etc - that flying in an atmosphere would.
Katrina Oniseki Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 2169	Posted - 2013.10.07 23:09:00 - [7] - Quote Fredfredbug4 wrote: In the lore it says that Tritanium (the mineral used the most in every ship) reacts rather...explosively...with atmosphere. Therefore, making it impossible for our ships to enter a planet in one piece. Pure iron rusts very quickly in contact with oxygen. Stainless steel does not. Pure iron is not very strong as a modern building material. Long steel is very strong. Considering the description for Tritanium also describes it as a highly malleable and reactive material, it would be pants on head stupid to build a starship with pure tritanium. Chances are that a tritanium alloy is used for building, one that is both stronger and less reactive with atmospheres. Keep in mind these are listed as minerals, not alloys or building materials. Lore is contradictory on how hangars operate and what (if anything) they are filled with. Hangar fog clearly suggests an ambient atmosphere (no matter how thin) of some sort, but chronicles and lore suggest it is a total vacuum. That said, Esna hit the nail on the head. EVE ships almost completely lack decent aerodynamics, and the ability to travel through even stratospheric altitudes would be ridiculously difficult for most. Keeping attitude control would be nearly impossible in some cases. In essence, even if the ships were made out of brick, they'd fly very much like bricks - meaning they wouldn't fly at all. The only reasonable excuse for EVE ships to be flying in an atmosphere would be the use of antigravity tech and heavy use of shielding to protect from atmospheric friction. Use of traditional aerodynamics is almost out of the question. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations
C krawiec Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve Filthy Bastards 0	Posted - 2013.11.08 03:02:00 - [8] - Quote For the atmospheric pressure part, sheilds? Duhh! and for the aerodynamics part, small ships like frigates have "manuverability thrusters" to turn withoput air (no air, rudders and wing flaps are useless). These could be repurposed to beep a hovering position in a planets atmosphere, kind of like a harrier jet. And for bigger ships, they could use this technology in a similar fashion, not to land, but to maintain a stratospherical orbit, so to speak, and manage planetary interaction and what not via computers and shuttlecraft/dropships.
Turk MacRumien EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.11.08 19:56:00 - [9] - Quote I think they could fly based on pure engine strength - an ICBM has no wings, but it still flies right? They might have to use ABs tho, to compensate for atmospheric drag. This is assuming a MWD no longer works in atmo
Kel hound Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking 63	Posted - 2013.11.09 02:30:00 - [10] - Quote All ships capsulers fly are built in space and are designed with this in mind. Shuttles could possibly serve as puddle jumpers, ferrying people from planet to sky. More generally though people would use the space elevators associated with planetary customs offices. As for handwavium magitech like grav-lifts, I'm afraid I have no idea. Maybe? Someone better versed in EVE lore would need to weigh in on that one.
Zippzorz Durandal Inc. 0	Posted - 2014.01.16 06:30:00 - [11] - Quote Considering how far into the future this game is set, I would assume that mostly all of the ships have the ability to fly in almost every type of atmosphere. I believe so considering that they have to ability to be so oddly shaped yet still fly generally the same while in space. I mean I'm pretty sure even a Titan is more then capable of flying in Atmosphere by the use of some kind of anti-gravity, I mean while flying around in space you don't see any directional jets or thrust vectoring on any of the ships so anti gravity is the most logical answer.
Matar Ronin 240	Posted - 2014.01.16 07:31:00 - [12] - Quote Interesting thread. I guess the common consensus is that atmospheric pressure is greater than the forces a ship would encounter accelerating and decelerating from warp speed which is certainly faster then the speed of light. Can't say I agree with that notion. Some of the most modern aircraft today completely rely upon constant computer adjustments to their control surfaces to stay aloft because they are otherwise flying bricks that no human could react fast enough to control. (Stealth Fighter) If I had to venture a guess I'd suspect that some combination of brute force thrust vectoring, combined with shields to nullify aerodynamic challenges, working with computerized controls would make some ships air worthy, shuttles, frigates, blockade runners in particular seem reasonable candidates. After all the now retired US space shuttle basically fell back to Earth just using gravity and minimal aerodynamics, a brick with just enough wing and tail to keep it roughly pointed at a target on the ground you lined up for while still in space. GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ

CCP Falcon 5724	Posted - 2014.01.16 15:36:00 - [13] - Quote Feel free to attempt atmospheric entry with a Rifter... I'll be on standby to mop you up with a sponge The whole "omg tritanium" argument is pretty pointless. It's a raw material, not a building component. I have a hell of a lot of stuff that's written, just not released, regarding the tech side of things, starship construction, operation of ships, their subsystems, all kinds of stuffs. A lot of it will need work to make it presentable before it goes anywhere, and it's just been a case of myself and everyone else who would be able to do that being busy with working on EVE Source. CCP Falcon -á \|\| -á EVE Community Manager -á \|\| -á EVE Illuminati @CCP_Falcon -á \|\| -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents

Altrue Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective 838	Posted - 2014.01.16 15:46:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Falcon wrote: Feel free to attempt atmospheric entry with a Rifter... I'll be on standby to mop you up with a sponge The whole "omg tritanium" argument is pretty pointless. It's a raw material, not a building component. I have a hell of a lot of stuff that's written, just not released, regarding the tech side of things, starship construction, operation of ships, their subsystems, all kinds of stuffs. A lot of it will need work to make it presentable before it goes anywhere, and it's just been a case of myself and everyone else who would be able to do that being busy with working on EVE Source. Damit you lazy gallente, work faster ! I can't wait to see this lore material G££ <= Me
Tykari Co-operative Resource Extraction 157	Posted - 2014.01.16 15:54:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Falcon wrote: Feel free to attempt atmospheric entry with a Rifter... I'll be on standby to mop you up with a sponge The whole "omg tritanium" argument is pretty pointless. It's a raw material, not a building component. I have a hell of a lot of stuff that's written, just not released, regarding the tech side of things, starship construction, operation of ships, their subsystems, all kinds of stuffs. A lot of it will need work to make it presentable before it goes anywhere, and it's just been a case of myself and everyone else who would be able to do that being busy with working on EVE Source. Wouldn't the tech side of things be something nice to put into the EVE Source as well? Or would that just end up making it more a 24 volume series as opposed to the one book that is planned? Speaking of EVE Source is there an estimated release known on that? Really looking forward to it. In this dark void we are like brilliant stars, holding within us both the creative and destructive power to bring a new dawn upon worlds or plunge them into eternal darkness.
MailDeadDrop Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities 237	Posted - 2014.01.16 16:19:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Falcon wrote: Feel free to attempt atmospheric entry with a Rifter... I'll be on standby to mop you up with a sponge The whole "omg tritanium" argument is pretty pointless. It's a raw material, not a building component. I have a hell of a lot of stuff that's written, just not released, regarding the tech side of things, starship construction, operation of ships, their subsystems, all kinds of stuffs. A lot of it will need work to make it presentable before it goes anywhere, and it's just been a case of myself and everyone else who would be able to do that being busy with working on EVE Source. I'm imagining a race out there in space somewhere trying to reproduce the ships & stations of Eve a la "Galaxy Quest"... If they're reading this: "Good luck guys!" MDD
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 2609	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:15:00 - [17] - Quote Most every ship in the game can accelerate faster than 1 g (10 m/sec/sec) so they should be able to support their weight via thrust. But do they have to? Right now I can take any ship in the game, fly it to a planet, come to a stop and it just sits there. I see no reason it would not continue just sitting there if it was in an atmosphere or one foot off the ground. I conclude that all our ships must have a gravity nulification system, allowing them to float over a planet. If you wanted to enter the atmosphere, just fly down. Do it at a slow enough speed that aerodynamics will not be an issue. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Teinyhr A Club for Reputable Gentlemen 359	Posted - 2014.01.16 22:16:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Falcon wrote: Feel free to attempt atmospheric entry with a Rifter... I'll be on standby to mop you up with a sponge Shouldn't you really send hazmat teams to the crash site, what with the Rifter's fission reactor and all. Plus the other construction materials in general that are possibly highly toxic when burning. Not to mention probably very volatile ammunition and... But basicly you're saying that no, our ships cannot enter atmosphere? Then, among these lore files of yours, are there any ground spaceports or is everything done with space elevators?
Matar Ronin 240	Posted - 2014.01.17 00:51:00 - [19] - Quote Balancing the lore with the actions of the game should be interesting. I sort of remember a Titan crashing on a planet and merc clones battling on that planet. Kind of puts a big hole in the raw material of tritanium bursting into instant flame when used in ship construction. What we have here is what I call the "Roddenbary Conundrum" that led to his clever solution of the transporter. The time spent getting from the surface of a planet to a ship in orbit is not very exciting when telling a recurring story. CCP simply kept us all in space to avoid it. Now with DUST514 we have to reconsider the mechanics. The bigger problem is going to be reconciling how the merc clones beam around from their home bases to MCCs above target planets. I think this is going to be very difficult for CCP to maintain consistency with game mechanics until EVE pilots start delivering merc clones to planets. A warbarge being transported in the maintenance bay of a carrier or cargo ship will eventually have to be introduced to cement the ties between the two games that share the same gaming universe. GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
Rachel Silverside Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels 5	Posted - 2014.01.17 08:20:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Falcon wrote: Feel free to attempt atmospheric entry with a Rifter... I'll be on standby to mop you up with a sponge The whole "omg tritanium" argument is pretty pointless. It's a raw material, not a building component. I have a hell of a lot of stuff that's written, just not released, regarding the tech side of things, starship construction, operation of ships, their subsystems, all kinds of stuffs. A lot of it will need work to make it presentable before it goes anywhere, and it's just been a case of myself and everyone else who would be able to do that being busy with working on EVE Source. I don't really get how it's much of a question TBH. I mean Zinc oxidizes pretty quickly when exposed to air. In fact oxidation is ironically how it actually how it prevents further oxidation. The layer of Zinc Oxide formed when pure Zinc is exposed to Oxygen prevents further oxidation by physically preventing more Oxygen from coming into contact with the remaining Zinc. This process occurs in most metals aside from the noble metals and Iron because Iron is the most dickish of all elements.
CMD Ishikawa Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 88	Posted - 2014.01.17 12:16:00 - [21] - Quote Our ships are not designed to be inside of planets, it's like putting wheels on the USS Ronald Reagan and make it move in the ground, it was not made for that. If we are going to have some interaction with planets, other than the feature we already have, CCP will create the machines for it.
Denak Calamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 204	Posted - 2014.01.17 12:55:00 - [22] - Quote Matar Ronin wrote: Balancing the lore with the actions of the game should be interesting. I sort of remember a Titan crashing on a planet and merc clones battling on that planet. Kind of puts a big hole in the raw material of tritanium bursting into instant flame when used in ship construction. This has been explained many times already, Tritanium is just a raw material, not an actual building component. When added with other raw materials, it doesn't suddenly burst into flames when entering an atmosphere. The main problem here really is that most EVE ships have the aerodynamics of a brick, so they just crash down into the ground. Matar Ronin wrote: The bigger problem is going to be reconciling how the merc clones beam around from their home bases to MCCs above target planets. I think this is going to be very difficult for CCP to maintain consistency with game mechanics until EVE pilots start delivering merc clones to planets. A warbarge being transported in the maintenance bay of a carrier or cargo ship will eventually have to be introduced to cement the ties between the two games that share the same gaming universe You're confusing the terms a little here. MCC(Mobile Command Center) is the ship that is deployed above the battlefield, Warbarge is the huge ship that is flying above the planet. And the answer really is simple, dust mercs use clone jumping as their prime method of travel. As long as there are clones in the destination in which a mercenary can jump to, he can go there instantly. What is actually transported in the Warbarges and MCCs are stock clones in which mercs can jump into, they don't have to physically board the ships. And if you didn't know, CCP has plans for making Warbarges actual ships in EVE(Orca sized if I remember right) which can transport clones and MCCs to target planets. Vincent Athena wrote: Most every ship in the game can accelerate faster than 1 g (10 m/sec/sec) so they should be able to support their weight via thrust. Strapping huge rockets into a brick doesn't make it fly. You just made a brick with extra thrust that will fly uncontrollably in every single direction until it crashes in a burst of flame. Vincent Athena wrote: But do they have to? Right now I can take any ship in the game, fly it to a planet, come to a stop and it just sits there. I see no reason it would not continue just sitting there if it was in an atmosphere or one foot off the ground. The main difference with flying in space and flying above the surface of a planet is that there is gravity and air that causes friction and all kinds of other troubles. Your ship's onboard computer simply stops you from advancing any further as to prevent you from crashing into the planet in a ball of fire. One Soldier // Two Faces
Publius Valerius Samarkand Financial 133	Posted - 2014.01.17 15:20:00 - [23] - Quote Hi to all, and sorry for any misspellings I think many people have put forward good ideas. I like Vincent Athena point (here). I hope I can explain. As he said, our ships and all orbital object dont react to gravitation fields. As he said, they dont need have energy (Centrifugal force) to keep in orbit. Which means like he said. If you, in a gravitation field of a planet, 1m above or 100m or 1000m doesnt matter. Which implies their is some sort of gravity nulification system. Moreover if we look into bigger gravitation fields, like a blackhole/wormhole. Ingame we can stay in front of a wormhole all day and dont get influenced by its energy/mass. But I thinke his "1 g (10 m/sec/sec) so they should be able to support their weight via thrust." comment is alittle missleading. As I see it, with a gravity nulification system horizontal or vertical movement on a planet OR ANY OTHER GRAVITATION FIELD doesnt matter. What I mean with it? It means, a Spaceship moving from A to B -- 100m -- along the horizon of a planet or a Spaceshop moving from 0 to 100m above the ground doesnt matter. They need both the same energy. I can see that ingame.... If you fly towards a sun -- a massive gravitation field -- you dont get influence by it (aka "suck in"), or you fly along/next to a sun; it doesnt matter, you need for both the same energy. As for the point of "The main difference with flying in space and flying above the surface of a planet is that there is gravity and air that causes friction and all kinds of other troubles." Which I which I split in two: (1) gravitation field of a planet (2) friction. As for (1) As other already mention, the gravitation field of a planet is nothing, to suns or wormholes, so if a spaceship hasnt any problems with those, it should have for sure not have a problem with a flimsy planet. The same counts for point (2). When I can jump in and out of a gravitation anomaly (aka Wormhole), without even get red shields I should with ease go in and out of an atmosphere. Both are movements which spike energy (which means also friction, etc...) as they "go through"/"cut through" gravitation field lines/mass, but those are really on a different scale. If a ship can survive a jump to a wormhole it can survive for sure survive that bit of atmosphere. As already told by other, I think the shields should do just fine. As for the point: About "bricks" and "aerodynamics". As Vincent Athena all comes down to if a object is able to support their weight via thrust. What many people dont know is that actually our airplanes are fly bricks... or lets say rockets......and their anhedral wings mean that no human can control them. They are control by a onboard-computer, and the monkey on the stick is just that, a moneky on a stick. I know I can already here you people: "Dude why they have wings?" The wings are less a control thingy, and more a support of their weight. But this discussion is actully not needed, if we go out from the fact that all ships have a gravity nulification system. As I said, they just need then enegry to move from A to B. Your -PV ______________ P.S. Again sorry for any misspellings. they are the opposite of dihedral wings. Dihedral wings counter a rolling moment, because the surface of the lower wing gets bigger, which means a increase in stability. Anhedral wings ae the opposite. I would love to have those classes ingame. See here: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376566/march-07-2011/joshua-foer
Iria Jovakko School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:49:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Falcon wrote: Feel free to attempt atmospheric entry with a Rifter... I'll be on standby to mop you up with a sponge Ho ho ho, I was doing it with dramiel and all I can say is Planets are a lie.
NightCrawler 85 Phoibe Enterprises 1361	Posted - 2014.01.18 01:41:00 - [25] - Quote As someone already mentioned CCP actually did do this at one point. I have no idea why it ended with the demo but linking it here for those that havent seen it before. Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread The Eve Reader - -áAudio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
CMD Ishikawa Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 88	Posted - 2014.01.18 02:30:00 - [26] - Quote NightCrawler 85 wrote: As someone already mentioned CCP actually did do this at one point. I have no idea why it ended with the demo but linking it here for those that havent seen it before. Nice...! Perhaps Falcon or any other dev can tell us why that ended being only a demo, what was the idea behind that demonstration?
Teinyhr A Club for Reputable Gentlemen 359	Posted - 2014.01.18 13:39:00 - [27] - Quote CMD Ishikawa wrote: Nice...! Perhaps Falcon or any other dev can tell us why that ended being only a demo, what was the idea behind that demonstration? No need, I can tell you. It's just one of those things CCP thought would be cool, they spent a fair bit of resources for it, until someone higher up decided it was outdated or something else was cooler and it was promptly abandoned with all due haste because that one word is law. /bittervet See: All other things they have demoed before, such as the WiS wreck exploration thing, WiS in general. /bittervet2
Yosef Brinalle University of Caille Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2014.01.19 04:32:00 - [28] - Quote Kel hound wrote: As for handwavium magitech like grav-lifts, I'm afraid I have no idea. Maybe? Absolutely yes. Half the ships in EVE have thrust vectors that if matched to their center of mass would leave them spinning in space like a merry go round. EVE has more relationship to science fantasy that it ever will to science fiction. What is the difference between EVE and reality? In reality everything around us is the outcome of rules (of nature) we have no control over. In EVE all rules are artificially created to produce a desired outcome, or sometimes just to make something 'look cool'. EVERYTHING in EVE is handwavium magitech. The best thing we can hope for is a little consistency. But when you license authors to write books, 'consistency' will always take a back seat to 'interesting'.
Kurt Ilkesi Southern Technologies The Umbra Combine 2	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:40:00 - [29] - Quote Gravity does not exist in EvE. This aspect of planetary life that in our real lives we have come to view as a normal and inescapable law of nature, governing various principles of mass and matter, simply does not exist in the parallel universe that contains New Eden. This is why planets do not maintain orbits around their suns, and why you can sit at any distance from any of the celestial objects of varying degrees of super massive without any silly vertiginous accumulation of retrograde or as otherwise motion. Forget your antigrav machines... those thrusters on Drops Ships are for sexy drive by's during he odd lull in corporate greed. At any time in which you feel that gravity is somehow affecting you, be that in station or playing DUST, take the time to reconsider your erroneous assumption. cue Twilight Zone Title Music
Ralph King-Griffin Var Foundation inc. 265	Posted - 2014.01.29 17:47:00 - [30] - Quote Esna Pitoojee wrote: While I do acknowledge that the Rifter certainly could have landing skids - it is certainly one of the more aerodynamic ships in EVE -Theodicy (and just about anything else written by TonyG) tends to play fast and loose with a lot of lore, so I'm hesitant to give much credit towards that; another of his novels had a dreadnought somehow manage sustained atmospheric flight. actually 2 manage it in that book. admittedly to limited success on both counts. If in doubt...do...excessively.

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