Wait..what?

The biggest problem is with warp. Would Hannibal have successfully been able to pull that off if the Romans had the ability to suddenly start running hundreds of miles an hour whilst being invulnerable to all and any damage? No sir, I don't think he could have.

We call that having a backstop.

None of your armchair general crap here plx.

LOL

Just kicking around some ideas. If you have anything valuable to add to this thread then don't be afraid to speak up. As it is, you've only convinced us that you're able to be cynical but unable to actually discuss the topic at hand.

T-

This is double invelopment a la EVE online and one of the core skills expected of even the most inexperienced of FC's. In Hannibal's time it was genius. In our time it's a given that you can do this. For budding FC's I hope you can learn something from this.

In order to execute such a move, one needs to build multiple levels of "walls" in which the enemy is unable to advance but also unable to retreat.

The only way I could see this working is if you had a roaming gang in your space, you'd make two fleets.

First off you'd have to find a two gate system, have a scout within that system, on the other side of the gate in that system, the roaming gangs exit, you'd have your first primary fleet. You'd need several point and tackling ships for this to work.

You'd have a secondary auxilary fleet a jump behind the roaming fleet, hopefully herding them towards the 2 gate system, and force them to jump through. This is where it'd get tricky.

You'd have your primary fleet waiting through the exit jump, you'd wait for the enemy fleet to warp to gate and jump your second fleet through and align.

when they jumped through the exit gate, your primary fleet would tackle the living heck out of them, when they started tackling and engaging you warp your auxilary fleet to the gate, and catch those that jump through.

This tactic requires three things that are very situational in eve. Superior numbers, needing close to double the enemy fleets numbers to effectively catch them. A two gate bottleneck system. And finally coordination of two separate fleets.

With three random variables, added into the fact you don't know if the enemy fleet will engage you haphazardly, it would be near impossible to pull of a effective pincer attack.

No, a pincer movement is, to whit, having a K346 exit to nullsec in one dead-end system A (which leads to System B), finding a R-class null-null wormhole in System A, which leads to a system a mere two jumps away (System C).

Cue getting into fight in System B. Retreat your force to system A, jump half through to System C, burn back to System A, and catch your enemy from behind.

I know, it blows the mind of nulltards when people they saw disappear out of a dead-end system jump through a gate behind them.

This is pretty much the most stupid irrelevant thing I've seen. The topic barely correlates with the content it's like he's trolling me with his own stupidity.

True.

Many quote "Art of War" beacause they thing that makes the cool FCs.

Also known as the pincer movement... This is a military tactic that has been employed with success since ancient times.... perhaps the most notable example of which was at the battle of Cannae in 216 BC where Hannibal entrapped and killed IIRC something on the order of 85000 Roman soldiers in one day. This is still considered, after all these years, one of the most stunning military victories of all time.

Obviously such a manoeuvre is difficult to execute in an eve online context because fleets are able to turn an manoeuvre in ways in which the Romans were not..... never the less, a modified version of this tactic is still possible in our little online universe.

In order to execute such a move, one needs to build multiple levels of "walls" in which the enemy is unable to advance but also unable to retreat.

The clearest example can be illustrated by something that I experienced myself several years ago. I was going ratting and jumped through a gate in a battleship.... on the other side, a small force was waiting for me. I held my cloak and let my ship recharge as much as I could and then burned back to the gate and jumped through...under heavy fire. at that point, a small force was waiting for me on that side too.... I waited, went back to the gate and jumped through... each time waiting as long as possible for my ship to recharge before uncloaking.

I went back and forth through that gate several times but each time more weakened than the time before and, of course, the end was inevitable. I blew up. That's a double invelopment on a small scale on eve online terms.... cut off the way ahead and cut off the way back.

This kind of thing can be done on a larger scale as well. In a more recent example, a fleet I was in was in-system and fighting a significant SC force. Unable to hurt them we decided to retreat but the exit gate was blocked on both sides by smaller fleets of conventional ships. On each side the fleet was about 2/3 of our size (of course people in the fleet were saying, "let's fight them" ) but aggressing would have opened the door for the "waiting" side to jump through and then they would have been larger and better armed than we were and we would be unable to retreat.....

This is double invelopment a la EVE online and one of the core skills expected of even the most inexperienced of FC's. In Hannibal's time it was genius. In our time it's a given that you can do this. For budding FC's I hope you can learn something from this.

T-

Honestly i dont see why people are bad mouthing you

Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.

Eve tactics.

1) Fleet up, 2)Play EOH for an hour or two 3) Fly Around, 4) Blob some guy coming through a gate, or get blobbed by a much bigger group 5) Go play BF3

That really is it. Anyone saying anything else is kidding themselves. The only thing that really makes a difference is fitting - and having the brains to know when to try to run to prevent a loss. That's it. Other than that, you just engage every active module, overheat when close to victory/death, and try to abuse the transversal. It is pretty simplistic really.

Notice no Raiden. posting on this thread. They should try to understand tactics better before they jumped balls-deep into battle with us yesterday.

We caught them in a dual envelopment last night and killed 783 of them, winning the fight in their home system even though they out numbered us by 100 and had dozens of super-caps on the field to our 11.

Some of you have laughed at this thread (and at me) but understanding tactics *does* help win fights.

T-

Laughing at you because everything you're saying can be filed under "**** we already know"

The FC's I've heard rambling on about military historical tactics usually blowass as FC's.

LOL

Were you there? Did you recognise the dual envolopment tactic when it happened? Did you understand why your FC was giving the commands he did? Did you hear the "click" when the pincer closed? Did you experience the enemy pressing the "panic" button?

Or were you sitting in Jita asking people to send you isk so you could double it?

Personally, I think the right to critique what happens in EVE's biggest battles should be backed up by evidence of experience.

T-

I'm with you Tinu Moorhsum.

We executed a success pincer maneuver (though on a smaller scale than your engagement) and successfully killed 75% of the opposition while having zero losses on our side.


Others who think tactics do not matter: Q) Why is the `Art of War` a required reading in any good business college? A) Because tactics are applicable in any field of action.

I'm all ears for a brilliant tactical play but so far all you said is the name of a real life military maneuver without saying anything to indicate it is either A) new, or B) difficult to pull off

Well... I was trying to draw some parallels to stimulate discussion but I think I'm beaten. :)

T-

Corbett, the three-penny tour:

How can u think, puling vietnamese war tactic makes up for a fun game.

Your tipps about "always have more than the others or cloak up" is just plain stupid and some of the worst bullshit i have ever read on a forum

Get a life

I think that if you had asked people to describe tactics in their own words that they find useful or impressive, you would have fostered more discussion.

Speaking of that, I'd like to know what tactics people DO think are useful and/or impressive, and how they have used them or had them used against them, but that might be for another thread.

Dead on the money Tjo...there are a lot of ignoramuses posting here that simply
don't have a clue about warfare and think that EVE combat is a special case
with no relation to previous work on strategy and tactics.

-- Haze

Dead on the money Tjo...there are a lot of ignoramuses posting here that simply
don't have a clue about warfare and think that EVE combat is a special case
with no relation to previous work on strategy and tactics.

-- Haze