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subvert
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Posted - 2006.01.25 13:54:00 -
[1]
Help me understand this. Dual 150 has twice better tracking as 250mm, so it seems like a good anti-frig cruiser gun choice.
My problem is in the description. I can't for the life of me figure out how the dual-150mm cruiser hybrid is better than the 150mm frig hybrid.
Dual-150 has 3.9 ROF, 150mm has 4.25, which is all good, however the dual-150 has 1.5x damage modifier, 150mm has 2.75 damage modifer. So 150mm does almost twice as much damage as the dual-150, but the dual-150 does not shoot even nearly twice as fast as the 150mm. Dual-150 also has a larger sig radius, takes more energy, requires more expensive ammo, and takes more fitting space.
Now it would be silly if a frig weapon the same range did more damage, so please tell me why I should fit dual-150mm on my thorax instead of 150mm.
Thanks.
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Haurik Tagelston
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Posted - 2006.01.25 13:56:00 -
[2]
Cant give you any info of which is better, but I think dual is using medium ammo which has higher base damage than small.
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Fliewatuet
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Posted - 2006.01.25 13:58:00 -
[3]
You just can't compare damage modifiers like that. Look at the ammo you are going to use. 150mm will use small, for the duals you are going to use medium one... which have a completely different damage they do. :)
Greetings,
Fliewatuet
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.01.25 13:58:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 25/01/2006 13:58:36
 Originally by: Haurik Tagelston
Cant give you any info of which is better, but I think dual is using medium ammo which has higher base damage than small.
Yup.
Look at the ammo both guns use...one uses medium ammo, and so has a higher base damage, even if the gun's stats dont seem to support it.
Also, look at the range - the med gun will fire a lot farther.
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
wierchas noobhunter
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:23:00 -
[5]
dual 150 mm sucks
thx
soar angelic now recruting |
Ante
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:35:00 -
[6]
Dual 150mm Railgun II does 18.8% more dps than a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II uses 63.1% more cap per second than a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II has the same range and falloff as a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II has 125m sig res, a 150mm Railgun II has 40m sig res.
Dual 150mm Railgun II has 40% slower tracking than a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II uses 7.63 times as much grid as a 150mm Railgun II.
In it's defence: It can expend 160 rounds of ammo before a reload + it gets bonuses for medium hybrid turrets.
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Lady Ivana
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ante
Dual 150mm Railgun II does 18.8% more dps than a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II uses 63.1% more cap per second than a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II has the same range and falloff as a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II has 125m sig res, a 150mm Railgun II has 40m sig res.
Dual 150mm Railgun II has 40% slower tracking than a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II uses 7.63 times as much grid as a 150mm Railgun II.
In it's defence: It can expend 160 rounds of ammo before a reload + it gets bonuses for medium hybrid turrets.
...and it makes a decent enough stopgap Anti-Frig gun to put on your ship if you dont yet have the skills to use Teir II weapons.
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subvert
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:06:00 -
[8]
Keep in mind I'm not talking about tech 2. Tech 1 as I don't have ubar specialization skills.
Should I just use 250mms? Will those hit frigs?
And ammo makes the most different for damage and such?
Originally by: Fliewatuet
You just can't compare damage modifiers like that. Look at the ammo you are going to use. 150mm will use small, for the duals you are going to use medium one... which have a completely different damage they do. :)
Greetings,
Fliewatuet
Actually dual 150mm 2 has the same range and falloff.
Also, if I train small specialization, will small t2 hybrids do more damage than medium t1?
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:11:00 -
[9]
Not really. If you want to use a medium gun as anti-frig defense, then a focused pulse will offer you a way better tracking than a dual-150mm rail, as well as more DPS, and anti-frig defense is something where tracking is very, very important.
But your only chance to hit consistently a frig with a mdeium gun (unless said frig pilot is noob enough to charge you directly), is to web them. If the frig stay out of web range, your medium gun is so much useless junk.
If you want to be able to hit frigs often enough to kill them, inside and outside web range,125-150mm railguns and equivalent beams/artilleries are the way to go.
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Erris Veloce
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Posted - 2006.01.25 17:38:00 -
[10]
Dual 150's suck
if anti frig, then just use 150's
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.01.25 17:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lady Ivana
Originally by: Ante
Dual 150mm Railgun II does 18.8% more dps than a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II uses 63.1% more cap per second than a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II has the same range and falloff as a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II has 125m sig res, a 150mm Railgun II has 40m sig res.
Dual 150mm Railgun II has 40% slower tracking than a 150mm Railgun II.
Dual 150mm Railgun II uses 7.63 times as much grid as a 150mm Railgun II.
In it's defence: It can expend 160 rounds of ammo before a reload + it gets bonuses for medium hybrid turrets.
...and it makes a decent enough stopgap Anti-Frig gun to put on your ship if you dont yet have the skills to use Teir II weapons.
He was comparing tech 2 to tech 2, so there's no difference in comparing T1 to T1. Same problems. In short, they suck.
--
Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.01.25 18:12:00 -
[12]
If you don't get ship bonus there is no use of dual 150 over 150 :)
And yes, they suck big time.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
slothe
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Posted - 2006.01.25 18:29:00 -
[13]
/ signed dual 150mm suck
their damage advantage over 150mm simply doesnt outweigh their tracking and fitting disadvantage.
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subvert
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Posted - 2006.01.25 18:34:00 -
[14]
so what medium gun should I use instead of dual 150. or should I just use small guns?
also are large guns the same way, worse than medium and small guns?
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Shaura
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Posted - 2006.01.25 18:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: subvert
so what medium gun should I use instead of dual 150. or should I just use small guns?
also are large guns the same way, worse than medium and small guns?
What ship are you using them on?
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.26 00:12:00 -
[16]
Fit normal 150s, you end up with alot more cpu/grid to use elsewhere. if you're going to use 250s, throw on a web. the worse tracking of a 250 is somewhat negated by having the target move 80% slower.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve...
This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
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Nuri Aderynn
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Posted - 2006.01.26 01:28:00 -
[17]
Most new players won't have Cruiser trained beyond 3 for a long time, but small hybrids can be trained to 5, and then the tech 2 skills, in a pretty short time. That makes up for not using the cruiser bonus to medium guns.
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Lorette
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Posted - 2006.01.26 02:30:00 -
[18]
Generally 'dual' guns suck, even with ship bonus's they usually hit for the same as the smaller ones but with none of the benefits of a frig sized one.
And if youre using 250mm's Dont expect to hit frigs closer than 15km, generally if youre fighting frigs stick to the smaller ones unless you have drone support.
I use 250mm's for cruisers and let my drones kill all frigs, unless ofc they are flying straight at me.
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Demangel
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Posted - 2006.01.26 02:42:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Demangel on 26/01/2006 02:44:32
Edited by: Demangel on 26/01/2006 02:43:41
Hmm I may need to investigate some more and rethink some things, so whats the final verdict?
Right now it's looking like (for a rax as example):
The blaster rax while still superior (Ie effective as hell, though beatable none the less) for killing cruisers 1v1 in a typical scenario Tranquility style (meaning not on SISI and challenging somebody to beat you giving them time to fit an anti rax setup etc). However against frigates you will either be impotent to kill them without your drones, or worse... easy prey for them once they dealwith your drones?
A better more versitile setup then might involve:
Highs
4x TI 150MM (small, with at least thorium and AM, but preferably AM thorium and something longer range, say iridium - Ie should hit out to 20 KM no problem, or even lead for a sniper setup)
1x Medium Nos (or cap neut - either or both good for making short work of the cap of inties and anything else frig sized that dares tackle you, and effective at making all other cruisers a bit less power efficient, interupting tanks etc, possibly making up for the loss in damage compared to blasters)
1x MWD (if you have gal cruiser five, this is almost a no brainer IMHO just watch out for sig radius making you easy to kill).
1x web
1x scramble (20KM prolly).
1x Medium TII repper
1x 800MM plate (best you can afford/find).
The remaining lows either full of tank (hardners) and cap recharging modules or damage/tracking mods (maybe a WCS or two if your planning on just harrassing things and fading away?).
This sounds like a pretty nasty and versitile setup to me, granted you won't have the serious punch of a fully medium blaster fitted rax (TI or otherwise) when facing other cruisers 1v1, but you won't need to pray your rax can survive the appraoch either... as the 150MM's should track a close range orbiting cruiser with less difficulty or similar difficulty to a med blaster, and yet score very very well at most other "optimal" ranges? Then due to bonuses for hitting larger targets enjoy increased damage over time? With the fittings saved by using small guns, a 800 MM plate should be childs play to fit with just about any other module combination. you could maybe in theory stick on a 1600MM and have slots to spend on nano's or something to help with the loss of agility and acceleration?
Hmmm Ok whats the concensus then? 150MM TII, or medium blasters? which would you use and why?
Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you
Demangel > Dude... I would call..
Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet.
Galaxion > Just a bit.
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